[BeemerMikeTX]

The big deal about 505 and 507 is specific protection for cam lobe wear. 507 is for dpf and 505 is non dpf. The way the tdi engine is designed, it requires a specific oil to prevent premature cam lobe wear. Any modern diesel oil can deal with dpfs, but only 507 can deal with cam lobe wear prevention.

So, do we know what 507 oil does for cam lobe wear? Higher ZDDP levels is a typical solution, but maybe this adversely impacts the cats.

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

507 is strictly low SAPS for the DPF. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SAPS?

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

OK, which is it about 507 oil? Low SAPS to protect the cats or more lubrication to protect the cams? ZDDP is the usual additive for cam/tappet protection, but that would seem to increase SAPS. So, does anyone know what is the "magic" in 507?

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

507.00 is the best of all

it is low ash for the protection of DPF Catalytic converters and urea after treatment systems
it is fully synthetic for long life - extended drain intervals lowers running costs
it has additives that carry soot in suspension - you don't want that stuff clogging up in one place
it has anti corrosive additives - the sulphur in diesel makes it's way past the rings as blowby and acidifies the oil
it has high shear protection for the bearings and cam rollers
it has detergents to clean your engine
it has additives to stop foaming which is bad for oil pressure
it is viscosity stable to ensure proper protection at various temperatures and cold start

There is more to oil than you think. It's a fancy car with an expensive engine. Relatively 507.00 is dirt cheap. Use it!

All you've done is make a list of generic engine oil properties. I worked for the company that makes Mobil 1 (including the Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 that meets 504 00 and 507 00), so I understand that "there is more to oil than you think". My question was more does anyone know what specifically is different about 507 00 oil from other high quality synthetic oils, and not really how can I avoid using VW 507 00 oil.

Maybe I'll go to the Mobil 1 web page and see if I can see any property/additive differences between Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 and "regular" Mobil 1 5W-30.

EDIT: A quick check of the Mobil 1 web page for product specifications indicates that Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 and regular Mobil 1 5W-30 both have the same phosphorus and zinc contents (800 ppm and 900 ppm, the lowest of the Mobil 1 formulations), but Mobil 1 ESP is designated "low SAPS" while regular Mobil 1 is not. So, maybe low SAPS is the key property difference for 507 00.

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

The R5 and V10 is flat tappet.

Ironically the non DPF R5 and V10 can NOT use 507.00 as the bearings arent happy with 507.00.

Like I said, there is more to oil than meets the eye. Im not an oil expert so cant go into detail. VW spends millions on research and you think you know better by buying cheaper. If you cant afford the specified oil you shouldnt have bought a touareg in the first place.

But if you think you know better, go for it. Your risk, not ours.

I don't think most people are complaining about the cost of VW 507 00. The complaints seem to be more about the availability, especially if you don't live near a VW dealer. I live 12 miles from my VW dealer, and they charge me $9.91 per quart, so I don't have either complaint.

Most questions, and certainly mine, have to do with what is technically different about 507 00 engine oil compared to other high-quality synthetic oils (and I guess also the difference between 507 00 and 504 00, although the VW Technical Bulletin indicates that the Pumpe-Duse engines can use 507 00, and the Mobil 1 web page indicates that Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 meets both 504 00 and 507 00). From the Mobil 1 product web page, low SAPS seems to be the difference for 507 00.

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

It's not just low SAPs - some low SAPs oils meeting ACEA-C3, which is specifically for low SAPs oils, don't meet VW 507.00 or any other VW specification.

Well, then what IS different about the 507 00 specs relative to other ACEA-C3 oils? Mobil 1 ESP X1 0W-30 also meets ACEA-C3 (and C2), and has low SAPS, and meets Mercedes and BMW diesel requirements, but does not meet VW 507 00. If you don't know, then just say you don't know.

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

I do know it's not JUST low SAPs - that's all I was saying.

Within the UK market, no oil meeting VW 507.00 has 0W viscosity, 5W being the lowest.

I never said it was JUST low SAPS that met 507 00. I said low SAPS was the only apparent difference on the Mobil 1 product page between "regular" Mobil 1 5W-30 (NOT 507 00) and Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 (IS 507 00). So 507 00 may indeed require a specified viscosity combined with low SAPS. In VW's Technical Bulletin, it appears that EVERY oil that meets 507 00 (and 504 00) has a viscosity of 5W-30.

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

Everything I've read on the subject seems to be along these lines -- there may be other motor oils that meet the 507 spec but they haven't been submitted to VW for certification.

Maybe, but there is a LONG list of oils in the VW Technical Bulletin that VW says meets their 507 00 spec. All of them 5W-30.

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

But some of them don't list it on the bottle or anywhere on the website for US oils - in many cases you may have to go to an overseas website and data sheet to find the certification, which to me seems to indicate that the North America version may be different.

* * *

I don't think I'll take that chance - I'll just get the Castrol from the dealer.

Well, now you're asking a different question. I was merely pointing out that VW says there is a long list of oils that meet their 507 00 spec. All of them 5W-30.

Your question seems to more "How do I know that a specific quart/liter of oil actually meets 507 00?" For me, I'd want to see the oil on VW's 507 00 list AND I'd want want to see "507 00" on the label of the container of oil.

BTW - At my last oil change at the VW dealer, they used oil with P/N G-052-195-1Q-DSP. I think this is Castrol Edge LL03 5W-30. On previous oil changes, the oil description was always something like "TDIOIL/CP 504/507 SPEC" or "TDIOIL 5W30 SYN LL03".

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

This is what they used. And it's what I buy from the dealer.

Does it say 507 00 on the label?

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

Yep! At least the stuff I get from the dealer does.

Then what is important is not that you got it at a VW dealer, but rather that it says "507 00" on the label.

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

Yeah, I guess that's true, but I would expect my dealer to be providing and using the correct oil. Had they given me something that *didn't* say "507 00" on the label but said it meets the criteria, I think I would call VAG-USA and get that in writing if they told me the same thing.

If that couldn't be verified or they wouldn't provide that in writing, I'd probably never go back to that dealer again.

I suspect that your VW dealer (and mine) have oils in stock, including 5W-30, that do NOT meet 507 00. I would not assume that the VW parts counter person knows that not all 5W-30 synthetic oils are created equal. That's why I said I would want to see "507 00" on the label . . . whether I got it at my VW dealer or I got it at my local auto parts or big box store.

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

On the few occasions I've gone to the dealer to pick up a liter of oil, I say "I need a bottle of that special magic VW-approved oil for TDIs". They've never handed me the wrong thing.

So you looked for, and saw, "507 00" on the label.

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

Of course. I check for "LL03" and "507" on whatever they hand me. My point was the VW parts guys seem to know what it is without me saying "LL03" or "507". I can't say the same for the employees at other auto parts stores.

And my point was that you can (and should) check for "507 00", and maybe "LL03" depending on which brand you want, on the container of oil that you buy at the auto parts store, without relying on the auto parts store employees to get it right. You apparently double-checked your VW parts guys without relying on their "seem to know" to get it right.

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

Now that we've resolved how to make sure that you are buying the required VW 507 00 oil, wherever you get it, we're hopefully back to the OP question about what is the "magic" of 507 00 oil. So far, it seems that 507 00 requires a high-quality, long-life synthetic oil with low SAPS and a viscosity of SAE 5W-30.

Does anyone have any other insight into 507 00?

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

I still maintain that the only thing that makes 507 different is the low ash and sulfur content.

And apparently also the SAE 5W-30 viscosity.

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

There could be other additives like detergent and stabilizers....

Could be a lot of things. Does anybody know what things it is, if any?

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

Unicorn piss? It's probably unicorn piss....

So we'll mark you down as an "I don't know".

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

Aren't we all?

Why is 5W-30 "necessary" within the 507.00 spec - in many other engines 0W-30 is better during cold weather start-up - is it something specific in 507.00 that oil companies can't (yet) make in a 0W-30?

It seems that 0W-30 may be too low a viscosity for VW. My owner's manual says the factory-fill was synthetic oil with a viscosity of 5W-40 (not 5W-30). The required VW spec for engine oil in the manual is 504 00 and 507 00, and the manual says the only oils available in the U.S. that meet these specs are "synthetic" oils (and from VW's list all of these 507 00 oils are 5W-30). The manual further says that if you need to add oil and none are available that meet VW's specs, then you can add no more than 1/2 quart of high-quality synthetic oil that meets ACEA A3 and has a viscosity of 5W-40 or 5W-30.

So, it seems that VW does not want 0W-30 oil in their V6 TDI engines (or apparently in their V6 gasoline engines and hybrids).

 

[BeemerMikeTX]

Someone said that 507 is good for the cam lobe wear, however, I have found from the dealer as well as all over the forums that the 2004 touareg TDI pumpe deuse engines (engine code bkw) need the 505.01 or 506.01 and that the 507 should not be used even though it is a newer oil. This only applies to like 800 early v10 touaregs in the US that don't have the DPF filter system. This is correct right?

A later specification oil is not necessarily better than an earlier specification oil FOR EVERY PERFORMANCE CHARACTERISTIC. Which is why I asked if anyone know what the "magic" was for 507 00. Later "environmental" specification oils tend to have lower viscosity (for fuel mileage) and lower ZDDP (zinc, phosphorus) levels to protect catalysts, which would provide less protection for earlier engines that were not designed for it. For example, lower ZDDP levels can be problematic for flat tappet engines.