ok, i know this might sound a bit strange and few guys will say i have too much time to waist but bare with me
im waiting for my brake service light to come on any time now so i was reading few threads about pads and rotors, many times i came across statement that there are no Brembo Pads, even if they are sold as Brembo and company called Pagid is making friction materials under the name Brembo, to be honest never believed it as Brembo is the biggest name on the market and i dont think it would let anyone to take and use their name. many times ive been told here by members that the brembo pads = pagid, im sorry guys to disappoint you but you are WRONG! i contacted Brembo and Pagid companies and ask them if they are doing any brake components under each name and the answer is NO! brembo company is using few names on different markets and here is the link to show what other names are they using The Group Brands - Brembo Brakes
and about Pagid i just now have spoken to their costumer service team and ill post the screen shot of our conversation sorry guys if this is not interesting thread to every one but i like when everything is clear and i have no more questions about this subject one thing i will add that Pagid is also very good and quality brake pad maker and lot of members are very happy with them

Nikoloz
how do Euro car parts have any thing to do with Pagid beside being a reseller?
Not that I disbelieve the conversation

Regards
Drag

 

if you will go on pagid official site you will have this chat window so you can chat ONLINE.

 

here are some more screen shots

 

nikoloz,

Pagid is the OEM pad without question 2004-2010. Their markings are identical on both aftermarket and OEM sold pads with the added exception that OEM pads get additional markings inkjeted on them. Brembo buys the friction materials as a completed operation from Pagid and delivers that to the assembly line along with the caliper components. The actual brake rotor is not produced by Brembo for OE service sales. A German manufacturer is used based upon markings I've observed.

I've sold Brembo brand here in the USA and I now sell Pagid brands as a direct warehouse distributor of Hella Pagid. Pagid co brands with Hella for North America. I've met these people at the AAPEX auto parts trade show in Las Vegas and speak to them frequently at the product management level. They are the real deal.

Regards,

Geoff

 

nikoloz,

Pagid is the OEM pad without question 2004-2010. Their markings are identical on both aftermarket and OEM sold pads with the added exception that OEM pads get additional markings inkjeted on them. Brembo buys the friction materials as a completed operation from Pagid and delivers that to the assembly line along with the caliper components. The actual brake rotor is not produced by Brembo for OE service sales. A German manufacturer is used based upon markings I've observed.


Geoff

Hi Geoff,

I think you know where I'm coming from in my quest to replicate OEM braking performance, whilst I have no reason to doubt your (and others) statements regarding the Pagid pads being the ones supplied for OE sales my predicament remains....where can I source original OEM pads and rotors (well the pads are not a problem) other than going to VW dealers.

thanks,

Tony

 

If you need to feel cradled in the OE love, why you've got to go to the dealer network for their symbol and seal!! How else now?

And in Australia that's likely to cost you in excess of $2,000 AUD... What price an intangible mark of authorship?

 

Hi Nikoloz, I beg to differ. A few years ago when chasing up brake parts I was also in contact with Brembo, both in Italy and China and was told emphatically that Brembo does not make friction material but that they liaise with companies that do. I have bought a number of sets of Brembo pads and discs for myself and other forum members and the pads have been Pagid pads complete with all the stamped numbers but with Brembo anti squeal shims and in Brembo boxes. The discs are totally Brembo marked so I assume that's what they are.. John
P.S. original pads were Pagid and the discs were marked with the Audi symbol.

 

ok, here is the question for you mate why are both companies denying this information??? and are saying that they have nothing in common?

 

Nikoloz,

A number of reasons prevent them from acknowledging the truth, chief among them licensing requirements between VW, Brembo, and Pagid as manufacturer and clients. They have allegiances to not mess with VW's act... When you inquire as a member of the broad public from the outside you are treated as an outsider and you don't get to see the story behind the "curtain", which fosters their business practice. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the story, The Wizard of Oz, a Hollywood movie (1939) and a book. The Wizard conducted many amazing demonstrations from behind a curtain to obscure the fact that he was just a man, like everyone else, imbued with technological edge. Cut him... And he'll bleed! So my point, you'll not get truth from these outlets because they won't cross certain lines. I sell these products and involve myself with the inner story. Living in Tbilisi, Georgia you need to know you've got the real goods you pay for. Here in the USA and other western nations, free trade of these goods all but insures you get exactly what you expect to receive. Why pay the VW markups?? It's just not necessary in the West.

 

I also have friends who are involved in car part import and selling all types of things but did you know that in China you can get any kind of products that are packed and stamped as MADE IN GERMNY, And there are 3 type of products for US, EU and rest on the world.

 

And if these guy are not admitting the truth in this case i will not believe To any one about this subject as i dont think anyone on this forum have this kind of confidential info, No des respect To you or anyone else's

 

Me thinks you do have too much time on your hands

 

Yes, no disputing China is a morass of difficult commerce. Lots of German companies including Zimmerman cast goods in China to save cost and avoid environmental regulations in the West. It's become a major trouble in the USA.

But Pagid pads all come from one manufacturing source in Germany.

 

True enough...

Must admit whoever manufactures these parts, they work well in action.

 

agree 100%, i hope nobody will get me wrong as i dont have anything against Pagid or im not getting payed by Brembo i know the Pagid is a very ood pad maker and in the future i maybe end up getting them for myself, but for now i have Brembo pads ordered from the US and its waiting on the shelf to be installed as soon as the light comes on

 

That's interesting. Pagid's focus has always been in "track"...they may have an OEM division that deals separately. I know I run Pagids on my 911 and they are phenomenal, far better than the stock OEM Brembos. Now, are my Brembo's made by Pagid...nope. They have a stock Porsche number...but, that is not to say Pagid is not supplying Porsche with a product, and Porsche/Brembo is simply putting their number on them.

Pagid is a big corporation and they could be subcontracted to make different types of compounds for different companies.

 

Same here, Pagid and Hawk's, no one out breaks me in corners...

Pretty sure Porsche's Big Reds calipers are really Brembos.

 

The last set of Pagid pads I received had Hella/Pagid branding on the box FWIW.

 

My experience is those online chat & front-line support reps aren't always a credible source of information. They probably don't even work for the company in question. They're reading questions & canned responses from a computer screen.

Example: VW Customer CARE insisting that there was NO PROBLEM with the early RNS-850 & HD Radio. "Our highest engineers state the radio is working perfectly & as designed".

 

This is the list of what Brembo manufacture and I see pads are not listed.

Original Equipment - Brembo Brakes

Interestingly, when I looked at Brembo replacement pads on that site the photography blurs what possibly looks like the PAGID stamp on the steel backplate!

Which would tie in with those folk who open a Brembo branded box of pads and find PAGID stamped on the steel backplate.

 

I purchased brake pads for my 2004 V8 (6 pot calipers) several years ago online and they came in a box labeled Brembo but the word Pagid was stamped on the steel backing plate.
.

 

Given the weight of the Touareg and the size of the brakes, are people really having trouble with fading, grabbing, squealing, and other brake issues, or just being picky?

I have been having good luck with Centric Posi-Quiet Ceramic pads and 125 high carbon rotors on MBs and Audis. Anyone have any experience with them here?
Seems a full set is about $450.

 

No and being PICKY is my guess ! The brake products market is probably EXTREMELY competitive, from all that I am reading. My bias is for oem quality and above. There is some wheat and a log of chaff in that discovery process. That being said, the vendor QPower1 seems to be a straight shooter. OEM/ to better and price/performance ratio options @ wholesale prices do not hurt either.

 

What I have found is that brakes, like a lot of other engineered systems are a set of compromises. Given that there is no "Best". OEM quality is also a compromise, so drawing a line at OEM or better is hard to measure. Better how? Longer life might mean reduced friction. Increased friction can lead to more (undesirable) bite, maybe at the expense of rotor life.
Softer pads often are less likely to make noise and more likely to make dust.

No problem being picky, it is just a matter of how picky is critical??

 

Well yes and no. . YOU were the one raising the issue of "PICKY". I didn't get that too many folks were having SAFETY BRAKING issues.

It is just that VW TDI rotor and brake pad quality and the "compromises" that represents are normally taken for granted. There are a lot of built in high specifications, albeit opaque. Most (including me) would rather not pay the highest prices for genuine VW (one compromise) brake parts. I do like the oem or better quality that QPower1's products seem to offer.

So for example, I almost start laughing when folks complain about/vilify oem VW brakes. Then they want to get ceramic pads, and complain when rotors are normally recommended.

So for another example, this vendor takes the time to explain the various choices/options for th $$'s. They are course ones' nickels. So they will be spent "ONES" way.

 

No problem, the "Picky" was just my observation about the whole thread, not any one post in particular.
I am picking up my "new to me" 04 in about 2 weeks, and saw that it got the Raybestos set about 20K miles ago. Hopefully I'll not have to worry about this issue for a little while.

I have no problem with OEM as long as they are not overpriced, or have some other issue. (i.e. MB OEM pads are dusty as hell, and the rotors are very soft!)

As for the Centric Ceramic, it looks like I should get 2 sets of pads to a set of rotors looking at how they are wearing so far on other cars. Guessing I will get 50K to 80K from a set of pads.

 

If I'm looking at non-OEM brake hardware, the questions I also want answered include Does the vehicle stopping distance change for the worse, including when pulling a 7000 pound trailer? Is there more fade in repeated fast stops or when traveling down a long steep grade than with OEM parts?

 

With ABS tires have much greater effect on stopping distance than brake pads.
I don't have my T1 yet, but on my GL I did not notice any significant difference (other than a lot less dust) moving from OEM MB pads to Centric Ceramic pads.

Never had a fading issues with either, but when towing, I am always a bit careful.

In reality, I don't think I have had fading problems anywhere but the track since about 1985 in a Lancia.

 

I'm stubborn about certain critical safety-related issues. Overall I have faith in VW and its brake design, testing, and specifications. Nobody knows more about Touareg brakes than VW.

That's just me though. I could be wrong, or ignorant.

 

We are all ignorent.
We don't know what compromises VW made in the selection of components.
Do you only use the OEM tires?

 

We are all ignorent. We don't know what compromises VW made in the selection of components. Do you only use the OEM tires?

Tire specifications are more open. I can easily find other tires that should meet certain industry standards & OEM requirements in the major areas of performance, load, speed, etc. equivalent to or better than OEM.

Brake components are more of a crapshoot. If the OEM brakes stop the car reliably under all conditions including rated loads, don't generate a lot of dust, don't squeal, don't fade, don't wear out every 10K miles, the rotors don't warp, etc etc and they're certified as safe and appropriate by VW AG, that's good enough for me to stay with them.

Honestly I don't know or care what else is out there for the Touareg because to my knowledge nobody is claiming the Touareg OEM brake system is crap. Actually the opposite is frequently mentioned. I'm not into experimenting with brakes on the Touareg. Maybe on a lesser vehicle.

 

As was said earlier, brake components are a religious topic like tire, oil, etc.

Glad to hear our cars are not "blessed" with some particular shortcoming, like noise, dust and/or unreasonable short life.
They do seem to have a little bit of the "pricy" curse, though.

For those with a lot of miles on there T1 cars, what is the "normal" (yes, I know it is a wide range) life span of the pads and rotors?
Does one end seem to well outlast the other?
Do rotors go every set of pads?, every other?, never?

 

As was said earlier, brake components are a religious topic like tire, oil, etc.

Glad to hear our cars are not "blessed" with some particular shortcoming, like noise, dust and/or unreasonable short life.
They do seem to have a little bit of the "pricy" curse, though.

For those with a lot of miles on there T1 cars, what is the "normal" (yes, I know it is a wide range) life span of the pads and rotors?
Does one end seem to well outlast the other?
Do rotors go every set of pads?, every other?, never?

You may get two sets of pads to one set of rotors, you may not. From memory the actual rotor wear limit is just 2mm.

 

Lots of companies make components for other companies under OEM, ODM, and contract manufacturing arraignments.
These products range from simple repackaging up to full custom engineered product completely unique from any product the manufacture sells under their own brand or any other.
Unless you are directly involved with the interactions between the companies you probably don't not know the details.
(Former OEM product manager)