Possible HP Fuel Pump issue with CASA/CATA engines

Naturist · Jul 15, 2017

hedditch said:
Naturist said:

she goes as smooth as new now. ...

Click to expand...

A very good point you make .

I have noticed my engine , which had become quite a bit noisier ( rattle ) at hot idle. is now as quiet as it was when I first got it ( 60K km). I was thinking it may have been an indication of the wear or depreciation in the old pump. I had done and injector clean some months ago, which helped a little, but the pump changed fixed the issue. I am glad you have noticed the same smooth running as I was beginning to doubt myself.

Stuart.......

Now that you mentioned a rattling sound - almost exactly your words I described to the workshop technicians... To make them have a look at it. I started noticing it as well somewhere after 150 000 kms perhaps - not sure. They didn't notice any rattles, and neither did I after I picked my car up, and they exchanged the pump before they did anything else.

I feel I might have just avoided a time bomb going off under the hood...

hedditch · Jul 15, 2017

Naturist said:
Now that you mentioned a rattling sound - almost exactly your words I described to the workshop technicians... To make them have a look at it. I started noticing it as well somewhere after 150 000 kms perhaps - not sure. They didn't notice any rattles, and neither did I after I picked my car up, and they exchanged the pump before they did anything else. I feel I might have just avoided a time bomb going off under the hood...

On the strength of that I now proceed to strip down my old pump to see how much wear is evident.

Regards
Stuart...

Shadey · Jul 16, 2017

Hi Stuart,,,Is it possible to post the directions for the replacement of fuel pump,,,or tell me where to get the manual,,,,thanks John

JimJ · Jul 16, 2017

or tell me where to get the manual

If you need a repair manual and current flow diagrams you can get it from VW AG at
https://erwin.volkswagen.de/erwin/showHome.do

1 hour including printing rights 7,00 €.
You can download and print all the manuals etc. pertaining to your Treg.

tgh05 · Jul 17, 2017

The Touareg you have when you are not having another Touareg...

Funny how stuff changes..

Failing to find anything else I want to buy , and watching the clock tick down on my last few weeks of extended warranty , I might now keep my old mate for a bit.
Everything else is either too woozy or dismal bang for my buck and doesn't drive any better than the old girl anyway.
They talk about a drive putting a smile on your face.. the old girl always makes me smile when she gallops over big hills with 3 tonne hanging on behind like it was not even there….

Leads to….from a passing interest in the thread to quite intense interest in the thread… thanks to Stuart for gardening it , most informative.

I now need to work out a risk/reward equation.

09 T2 tdi 70000km with 0 issues atm , still like new but maybe worth $25k…. :crying:

If I keep it for one more year ( less than 15k km pa ) in hope of something better to buy , do I run it on and hope…. or bite the bullet and do the hppf ?
Will it be worth any more money to sell in a year or so with the pump done ? .. probably not.

Otoh , If I run it on and it blows , I then probably need to sell it to a wrecker as the cost -v- the value won't stack up.
Otoh+2 , If I decide to run it on for another four years the equation changes and the pump is probably a must do asap.

I guess the question is .. at what k's is the pump most likely to go ?
Some have gone early but most seem to go at higher k's

Suggestions anyone ??

seafarer28 · Jul 18, 2017

tgh05,

You have a very low mileage vehicle and it seems you have decided to keep your '09, the question is, for how long?

If I was keeping her for only 12 months or so I would just run her as is as it seems to me that the chances of HPFP failure would be very small based on the distance travelled as the pump is not an item that degrades with time, if anything it degrades with usage.
If, on the other hand I had plans of keeping her for a longer period, say 4 years/150K Kms, then I would start seriously thinking about a maintenance schedule which gives me the best chances of having a trouble free run for the next 4 years.

In addition to the normal service items other items that come to mind and will need to serviced/replaced (unless already done) in the next 4 years I would say would be:
1. Transmission, transfer case and differentials fluid change
2. Centre carrier bearing
3. Serpentine belt, toothed belt and tensioner
4. Water pump and thermostat
5. HPFP
and if you are unlucky,
6. EGR valve and cooler

I would say that ball park costing to do the above could probably be around the A$10k but only if you source your own parts and have an independent do the work.
I'm sure there are other things that generally need to be considered and I've forgotten to list but as you can see the HPFP is not the only item for you to consider at this time.

Ultimately you can only decide whats makes you comfortable and fits with your long term plans and budget.

TonyB

hedditch · Jul 18, 2017

tgh05 said:
I guess the question is .. at what k's is the pump most likely to go?

The short answer is "No Idea". However most of the failures seem to be in the earlier production runs. It really come down to a value judgement. On that basis I went and swapped mine.

Good luck.
Stuart...

tgh05 · Jul 18, 2017

Thank you both for the helpful replies.

Mi_eg is 7/08 build/plated 9/09, (MY09) ,so that probably makes it an early build by Stuart's calcs.

Inclined to take my chances for the moment ,maybe see what the new-eg looks like…..

hedditch · Jul 18, 2017

Have a look at the part number on the left hannd side on the pump. By far the most common failures have been the first series with part numbers ending with "AB". If yours is one in the same then I wouldn't leave it.

Stuart....

tgh05 · Jul 18, 2017

I will have a look asap...
Leads to.. (my devious mind at work)….
Replacing the pump before the warranty runs out.
Asking the fitter to disassemble it and report
and
making a claim if it was on the way out.

leads to.. the following game , perhaps..

me .. here is a claim and report for a failing hppf
them : we won't pay
me .. why not
them because it had not failed
me but it would have and when it failed the cost would have been 500% more
them.. yup.. that's the way it works..

hedditch · Jul 18, 2017

Sorry. You're guilty of using rational thinking and logic when speaking to a Car Dealer. Guaranteed to fail as they live in a Logic Free Zone.

Stuart....

Stabone33 · Jul 19, 2017

hedditch said:
Sorry. You're guilty of using rational thinking and logic when speaking to a Car Dealer. Guaranteed to fail as they live in a Logic Free Zone.

Stuart....

Actually, I think the logic is, "we're here to make money. Keeping you happy is a secondary goal."

Ewie · Jul 19, 2017

tgh05 said:
I will have a look asap...
Leads to.. (my devious mind at work)….
Replacing the pump before the warranty runs out.
Asking the fitter to disassemble it and report
and
making a claim if it was on the way out.

leads to.. the following game , perhaps..

me .. here is a claim and report for a failing hppf
them : we won't pay
me .. why not
them because it had not failed
me but it would have and when it failed the cost would have been 500% more
them.. yup.. that's the way it works..

I think that the words "FAIR WEAR & TEAR" will be used as well by the "stealer" in avoiding warranty.

Steve_L · Jul 20, 2017

and also..."This unit appears serviceable and capable of doing it's job - no warranty/replacement for you"

hedditch · Sep 17, 2017

Recently received a phone call (15th Sept.) from a good mate who has two friends who both drive 2008-2009 Audi Q7's with 3.0 Tdi engines. One of whom just had a HPFP catastrophic pump failure, and the other has just become very nervous. Looks like we are still seeing "early" V6 TDI's becoming victims of the Bosch CP4.2 pump.

I have asked him to find out what the original part number was, to see if it was an "AB" model.. Updates to come..

Stuart....

Naturist · Sep 17, 2017

It is interesting to note that there are also some pump failure related posts in the German Touareg forum (Touareg Freunde), but I think not to that extent than what has been discussed here so far.

Now, the big question: does it come down to lesser fuel quality in some countries, or is it really a part design failure which is only starting to come into light?

Toiler · Sep 17, 2017

Australian fuel must meet no more 460um wear after 2000 hours.
I have seen a chart showing that the Bosch pump is designed to run at no more than 450um wear after 2000 hours. . . . so there is very little margin for error . . and if you think that all Aussie diesel meets the spec you have more faith than I do . . I use a fuel additive for this reason.

Reference: Fuel Quality in Australia - Diesel fuel quality standard

hedditch · Sep 17, 2017

Naturist said:
Now, the big question: does it come down to lesser fuel quality in some countries, or is it really a part design failure which is only starting to come into light?

I will put my money on the second hypothesis.

Would you fly on a Boeing or Airbus if they placed their reliability in the hands of a third party "lubricant" supplier. Why on earth would you design a mission critical part with such a vulnerability. Answer: Because it is a cheap and nasty replacement for a properly designed pump, such as the CP3 originally used.

In due course we will see many more!!

Stuart..

alfissimo · Sep 17, 2017

hedditch said:
Recently received a phone call (15th Sept.) from a good mate who has two friends who both drive 2008-2009 Audi Q7's with 3.0 Tdi engines. One of whom just had a HPFP catastrophic pump failure, and the other has just become very nervous. Looks like we are still seeing "early" V6 TDI's becoming victims of the Bosch CP4.2 pump.

I have asked him to find out what the original part number was, to see if it was an "AB" model.. Updates to come..

Stuart....

Do you have mileages of both? My 2010 has 109K miles on the original pump (dosed with B100 biofuel every tank since around 65K miles). I know milages have been all over the place but I am curious.

hedditch · Sep 17, 2017

alfissimo said:
Do you have mileages of both? My 2010 has 109K miles on the original pump (dosed with B100 biofuel every tank since around 65K miles). I know milages have been all over the place but I am curious.

No, sorry I don't have the mileage for the failed unit. I will ask them and hopefully get back with the answer.

Possible HP Fuel Pump issue with CASA/CATA engines

Naturist

hedditch

Shadey

JimJ

tgh05

seafarer28

hedditch

tgh05

hedditch

tgh05

hedditch

Stabone33

Ewie

Steve_L

hedditch

Naturist

Toiler

hedditch

alfissimo

hedditch

Top Contributors this Month

Recommended Communities