References from Other Sources & Forums.....

Catastrophic high pressure fuel pump failure - TDIClub Forums

3.0 HPFP Failure, 2009 Q7 220k - TDIClub Forums

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/ucm475595/incr-EA11003-61863.pdf

http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f93/hpfp-failure-130962.html

 

Australian diesel is only just within the fuel spec for the pumps - just. No tolerance. Yes a fuel additive to increase lubricity is advised if you intend to keep your treg. There is a lot of detail on the web on this - somewhere there was a comparison of the benefits of different additives.

A start is here: 2 Stroke Oil In Diesel ? - myTreg forums - Page 3

 

Yes Stu HPFP failure is a real costly exercise.

I believe adding either synthetic 2 stroke oil or a diesel fuel lubricity additive like Flashlube or the like to your fuel will help.

Are there enough failures out there to justify the pump as a maintenance item at say 175 to 200 kms ?
Costly exercise but way cheaper if you were to have a failure.

As a note relating to the video Touareg TDI's pumps are not driven by the timing belt and are not timed.

regards
Drag

 

Are there enough failures out there to justify the pump as a maintenance item at say 175 to 200 kms ?
Costly exercise but way cheaper if you were to have a failure.

I will be ordering a replacement HPFP this coming week, as I currently have 220,000 km on the clock, and replacing a pump is cheaper than replacing a pump + a full set of injectors. It might look like "overkill" however I am a firm believer in "Preventative Maintenance" rather than Restorative Repairs.

Stu.....

 

This YouTube Video gives a good insight to the cause of HPFP failure in TDI engines. Even though it relates to a Jetta 4 cylinder engine the process is exactly the same.

Stuart....

 

is there a extended HPFP warrantee on T3's in the US?

 

There will be when the settlement is approved.

 

Has anyone come up with a upgraded version? I checked LOBA but they have nothing. I have been thinking about replacing mine as well just as preventative maint. I always use a lube (Titan Diesel additive) or about a pint of B100 at fuel ups.

 

I will be ordering a replacement pump today, because I now have 230,000 km (130,000 mile) on the clock, and I have not been using any fuel additives. My thinking is a pump is cheap compared with a failure.

Stuart....

 

Had another update from my local repairer, VolksRepair ( Airport West, Melbourne).

They have just started repairing their third Touareg HPFP failure (catastrophic) in two months. This time it is a 2008 with on 89,000 km. No information as to any incorrect fuelling issues or such like. The previous Touareg HPFP failure had even less miles on it.

I would appreciate if anybody can give me a feel for similar failures in their geographies.

Kind Regards
Stuart....

 

V6 CATA Engine may be a Victim of Cost Cutting by VW.

The early version of the V6 TDI released in the Touareg was the BKS engine which was fitted with a Bosch CP3 Common Rail pump. The CP3 pump had a reputation for being extremely reliable and just about bullet proof. However it had one downside in that is was a very costly piece of kit. When VW released the "upgrade" CASA/CATA series engines ( and every TDI V6 to follow ) they opted for the new improved ( :: Read as cheaper / Opinion Only ) Bosch CP4 Common Rail Pump.

Well, as time has now shown, the instance of HPFP failures and resultant destruction of the entire fuel delivery system in TDI engines appears to be the exclusive domain of the Bosch CP4 Series Pumps. They seem, on face value, to be cheap and very vulnerable to reduced lubricity commonly found in Australian and US Diesel Fuels. (Lubricity is the measure of the reduction in friction and or wear by a lubricant. Wikipedia et al.)

If you want to really feel insecure about your trusty V6 TDI Touareg, then try doing a Google search for "tdi cp4 to cp3 conversion". The number of people doing just this is quite concerning. Mind you this problem is NOT limited the VAG vehicles, as GM, Ford and a few others also use the same cheap and nasty little Bosch CP4 hydraulic hand-grenade (personal opinion only).

The attached graphic shows the CP4 on the left and the earlier CP3 on the right.

One point of interest is that the CP3 had three pistons spaced at 120 degree intervals and the CP4 has either One or Two Pistons.

Enough of my ramblings. But I thought it may be an interesting aspect to compare. Sadly I have a CASA engine, where I may have been better of with the BKS engine. SteveL wins again!

Kind Regards
Stuart.......

 

Interesting. Found this after some looking around:

"FWIW, I was at meetings at the largest Bosch distributor in the US last week and we discussed HPFP replacements. My colleague mentioned that some people were fitting CP3s in their CP4 equipped TDIs. The distributor's response? Rolled eyes. I don't think people who work around these pumps all the time see the CP3 and CP4 as having significantly different reliability.

We have tens of thousands of customers who drive common rail TDIs. In the past 5 years I've received fewer than five phone calls regarding HPFP replacements. This pales in comparison to calls about other issues in the common rail cars, like exhaust flaps, DPFs, turbos, etc.

I had some anxiety about the HPFP in my Golf when I owned it. I was more careful about where I fueled the car than I am with my rotary pump cars. And religious about using a lubricity additive. But I honestly don't think this is a big issue."

Now I realize that this a bit misleading as most likely VW took care of most of the failures. Not sure if this bosch distributor knows anything or not either. lol



This has good info and pics on both CP3 vs CP4: Inside the HPFP - TDIClub Forums

 

so.....the resale value of my T2 (upgrade) with BKS engine has just gone up? SCHWEET

 

Food for Thought

Ever wondered what a HPFP costs (in AU$)?

I did a ring around various Dealers and Third Party suppliers and found the following in regard to the purchase price of a replacement Bosch CP4 pump.

Understanding that the following are for the very same component, only the supplier changes.

Volkswagen Number: 059 130 755 BS___ $2,195.00
Audi Number: 059 130 755 BS_________ $3,357.00
Porsche Number: 958 110 316 22______ $4,160.00
Bosch Number: 0 445 010 685 ________ $1,692.00 **
Bosch Number: 0 445 010 685 ________ $1,495.00 ***

** Pricing from Denco Diesel in Wagga Wagga NSW.
*** Pricing on Ebay ( BOSCH FUEL PUMP 0445010685 / 0 445 010 685 | eBay )

A little searching never hurt anybody other than Stealers...

Stuart....

 

Food for Thought

Ever wondered what a HPFP costs (in AU$)?

I did a ring around various Dealers and Third Party suppliers and found the following in regard to the purchase price of a replacement Bosch CP4 pump.

Understanding that the following are for the very same component, only the supplier changes.

Volkswagen Number: 059 130 755 BS___ $2,195.00
Audi Number: 059 130 755 BS_________ $3,357.00
Porsche Number: 958 110 316 22______ $4,160.00
Bosch Number: 0 445 010 685 ____ $1,692.00 **
Bosch Number: 0 445 010 685 ____ $1,495.00 ***

** Pricing from Denco Diesel in Wagga Wagga NSW.
*** Pricing on Ebay ( BOSCH FUEL PUMP 0445010685 / 0 445 010 685 | eBay )

A little searching never hurt anybody other than Stealers...

Stuart....

Some amazing price differences. Scored a brand new from recent 2019 make 0 445 010 685 a couple of months ago for $1400 flat from Dieselcare Aust. Cheapest price of around 6 enquiries made. Just makes you wonder how much certain places make on mark up

 

Hi Stuart,,how big a job to replace pump,,

 

My repairer quoted 3 hours labour. Looking at ELSAWIN it appear to be quite straight forward. It requires removal of the top half of the inlet manifold and a bit of pipe work to expose the pump. The biggest challenge to a DIY approach may be swapping over the drive pulley as it apparently requires a special tool.

Stuart...

 

Based on the results of this study, the following conclusions are drawn:

At a 200:1 volumetric blending ratio, 2-stroke oil has a negligible effect on diesel lubricity.
All diesel fuel sold in South Africa has to meet the SANS 342:2014 lubricity specification to ensure the proper protection of diesel fuel pumps and injector systems.
The low sulphur diesel products sold by Sasol contain lubricity improver additives which are far more effective than 2-stroke oil.
At a 200:1 volumetric blending ratio, 2-stroke oil has a negligible effect on diesel cetane number.
No measurable effect on all other regulated diesel properties was measured at a 200:1 dose of 2-stroke oil in diesel.
2-stroke oil can contain around 16ppm zinc, or higher depending on the formulation and batch.
Trace amounts of zinc in diesel are known to rapidly accelerate injector nozzle deposits.
Engine test results show that a 200:1 blend of 2-stroke oil in diesel results in a 2% loss of engine power in a 16 hour test due to injector fouling, a risk that would apply to any common rail diesel engine, but could also worsen fouling in older engines.

Vehicles fitted with a diesel particulate filter (DPF) in the exhaust system could experience reduced DPF life due to the collection of ash and metal based contaminants in the filter over time with the continued use of 2-stroke oil.

 

My car went in to have the HPFP replaced this morning. Will collect tomorrow. Cheap insurance for a couple of grand. From this point forward I will be running a diesel fuel additive for the rest of the cars life. Currently using Flashlube. Stuart...

 

New HPFP Fitted..Hopefully another 200,000 km's without needing to think about again.

VolksRepair charged me AU$ 2,300 for the job which was really good considering VW wanted AU$2,195 for the part alone, Job took just under the quoted time, so I an very happy with the result. Great shop, nice blokes to work with and I recommend them to any locals needing work.

We fitted a 059 130 755 BK pump which is one release back from the current 059 130 755 BS as the BS unit is nil stock in AU and would have needed to be shipped from Germany, with a 10 day delivery. I needed to truck back on the next week, so after bouncing it around amongst some of our fellow forum members, I went with Version N-1. Considering my original pump was 059 130 755 AB, which is I believe about N-10, I feel quite comfortable.

Regards
Stuart....

 

Stuart reading this previous post a while from a while ago im trying to follow through and do what you and Tony have done.

I am trying to understand the pump replaced. I recall you went with another CP4.... yet you mention 059 130 755 BK above BK being the pump you went with.

Is there somewhere you previously posted about the differences in the CP4 pump or this was private chate or camp grund banter ?

appreciate your insight

thank you

 

Good news. Now enjoy your trip 'west'

 

Unfortunately it will be about 3230 km too short otherwise we could've had a beer together.

 

Prevention is better than the cure? Yes Sir!

I, like Stuart want to keep my now, 203K+ km girl for as long as I can, and accordingly I also have decided to treat the High Pressure Fuel Pump as a consumable item as the possibility of failure (and consequences) is not an option I am comfortable with, therefore I have pulled the trigger and placed my order for a new HPFP (Bosch 0 445 010 685) to replace my existing unit purely as a maintenance replacement based on distance and age of my current pump.

I believe that my 7L is the most versatile vehicle that I have owned in my near 50 years of vehicle ownership, nothing is perfect but with a structured repair and maintenance schedule there should be no reason that she cannot be extremely serviceable for quite a number of years to come.

TonyB

 

Nice move Tony!

 

Sensible Tony!

 

I am looking at doing this but need to figure out if I have another, better pump as an option or just replace with the same pump that came with.

Anyone have a clue on this as I have read a lot on this pump thing and going back to an older style, I am just not sure what fits my CATA motor. Not sure 059 130 755 BK pump would work.

I am also keeping mine as long as possible. Such an awesome truck for everything.

Thoughts?

 

Not sure I understand your concern.

The VW part number (suffix) for the pump have changed over the years for our 7L6 engine, so assumption here is that something must have changed to trigger a suffix code change, problem is that no one seems to know exactly what.

Have you physically checked HPFP code on your engine yet?

I have checked mine and I have the 059130755AB showing on the pump alloy label on my '08, you will most probably have a later suffix code being a later production year but from the little I have been able to find it shows the current Bosch part (0 445 010 685) as being the non VW labeled replacement.

Here is the current Bosch Product Automotive Catalogue confirming this:
Vehicle Info - bosch.com

At the moment I am trying to establish which suffix code the pump I have on order actually will be, not sure I will be successful in this quest but I am trying.

TonyB

 

Final Washup ( for me at least)

Just thought I would throw some photos up as FYI only... As you can see I sourced my new pump directly from Bosch rather than VW Parts as it was quite a bit cheaper.

I now adding 100mls per tank of Flashlube, as a lubricity enhancer....

Stuart....

 

.....and.....I'm thinking right about now, that the value of my Touareg has just gone up by $5k - $10k (at least)?