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Whilst visiting my local Third Party VW Specialist yesterday, They informed that they have had two CASA V6 Tdi engines with catastrophic High Pressure Common Rail Pump failures in the past two weeks.

Both engines had done over 200,000 km and in both cases the HPFP had disintegrated resulting in metal fragments and filings being forced through the injectors, This resulted in total loss of not only the pump ( about AU$ 1,200 ) but also the injectors ( about AU$ 600 each ) resulting in a repair bill of over AU$5,000 plus labour.

The vehicles involved were apparently stock standard and had not be subjected to any apparent abuse. They don't have enough information as to the root cause but suggested that it may be related to fuel quality. They also stated that I may be interested in looking at Diesel Fuel treatments as a form of insurance. Understanding that they DON'T sell such products, and were only thinking out loud as to what may be useful.

At this stage the failure of two engines may be simply bad luck, which I sincerley hope is the case. I think it is something I will be following closely to see what more information I can find.

Kind Regards
Stuart....
 
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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)

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Australian diesel is only just within the fuel spec for the pumps - just. No tolerance. Yes a fuel additive to increase lubricity is advised if you intend to keep your treg. There is a lot of detail on the web on this - somewhere there was a comparison of the benefits of different additives.

A start is here: 2 Stroke Oil In Diesel ? - myTreg forums - Page 3
 

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Yes Stu HPFP failure is a real costly exercise.

I believe adding either synthetic 2 stroke oil or a diesel fuel lubricity additive like Flashlube or the like to your fuel will help.

Are there enough failures out there to justify the pump as a maintenance item at say 175 to 200 kms ?
Costly exercise but way cheaper if you were to have a failure.

As a note relating to the video Touareg TDI's pumps are not driven by the timing belt and are not timed.

regards
Drag
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Are there enough failures out there to justify the pump as a maintenance item at say 175 to 200 kms ?
Costly exercise but way cheaper if you were to have a failure.
I will be ordering a replacement HPFP this coming week, as I currently have 220,000 km on the clock, and replacing a pump is cheaper than replacing a pump + a full set of injectors. It might look like "overkill" however I am a firm believer in "Preventative Maintenance" rather than Restorative Repairs.

Stu.....
 

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This YouTube Video gives a good insight to the cause of HPFP failure in TDI engines. Even though it relates to a Jetta 4 cylinder engine the process is exactly the same.


Stuart....
 

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There will be when the settlement is approved.
 
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Whilst visiting my local Third Party VW Specialist yesterday, They informed that they have had two CASA V6 Tdi engines with catastrophic High Pressure Common Rail Pump failures in the past two weeks.

Both engines had done over 200,000 km and in both cases the HPFP had disintegrated resulting in metal fragments and filings being forced through the injectors, This resulted in total loss of not only the pump ( about AU$ 1,200 ) but also the injectors ( about AU$ 600 each ) resulting in a repair bill of over AU$5,000 plus labour.

The vehicles involved were apparently stock standard and had not be subjected to any apparent abuse. They don't have enough information as to the root cause but suggested that it may be related to fuel quality. They also stated that I may be interested in looking at Diesel Fuel treatments as a form of insurance. Understanding that they DON'T sell such products, and were only thinking out loud as to what may be useful.

At this stage the failure of two engines may be simply bad luck, which I sincerley hope is the case. I think it is something I will be following closely to see what more information I can find.

Kind Regards
Stuart....
Has anyone come up with a upgraded version? I checked LOBA but they have nothing. I have been thinking about replacing mine as well just as preventative maint. I always use a lube (Titan Diesel additive) or about a pint of B100 at fuel ups.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I will be ordering a replacement pump today, because I now have 230,000 km (130,000 mile) on the clock, and I have not been using any fuel additives. My thinking is a pump is cheap compared with a failure.

Stuart....
 
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Had another update from my local repairer, VolksRepair ( Airport West, Melbourne).

They have just started repairing their third Touareg HPFP failure (catastrophic) in two months. This time it is a 2008 with on 89,000 km. No information as to any incorrect fuelling issues or such like. The previous Touareg HPFP failure had even less miles on it.

I would appreciate if anybody can give me a feel for similar failures in their geographies.

Kind Regards
Stuart....
 

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V6 CATA Engine may be a Victim of Cost Cutting by VW.

The early version of the V6 TDI released in the Touareg was the BKS engine which was fitted with a Bosch CP3 Common Rail pump. The CP3 pump had a reputation for being extremely reliable and just about bullet proof. However it had one downside in that is was a very costly piece of kit. When VW released the "upgrade" CASA/CATA series engines ( and every TDI V6 to follow ) they opted for the new improved ( :: Read as cheaper / Opinion Only ) Bosch CP4 Common Rail Pump.

Well, as time has now shown, the instance of HPFP failures and resultant destruction of the entire fuel delivery system in TDI engines appears to be the exclusive domain of the Bosch CP4 Series Pumps. They seem, on face value, to be cheap and very vulnerable to reduced lubricity commonly found in Australian and US Diesel Fuels. (Lubricity is the measure of the reduction in friction and or wear by a lubricant. Wikipedia et al.)

If you want to really feel insecure about your trusty V6 TDI Touareg, then try doing a Google search for "tdi cp4 to cp3 conversion". The number of people doing just this is quite concerning. Mind you this problem is NOT limited the VAG vehicles, as GM, Ford and a few others also use the same cheap and nasty little Bosch CP4 hydraulic hand-grenade (personal opinion only).

The attached graphic shows the CP4 on the left and the earlier CP3 on the right.

One point of interest is that the CP3 had three pistons spaced at 120 degree intervals and the CP4 has either One or Two Pistons.

Enough of my ramblings. But I thought it may be an interesting aspect to compare. Sadly I have a CASA engine, where I may have been better of with the BKS engine. SteveL wins again!

Kind Regards
Stuart.......
 

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Interesting. Found this after some looking around:

"FWIW, I was at meetings at the largest Bosch distributor in the US last week and we discussed HPFP replacements. My colleague mentioned that some people were fitting CP3s in their CP4 equipped TDIs. The distributor's response? Rolled eyes. I don't think people who work around these pumps all the time see the CP3 and CP4 as having significantly different reliability.

We have tens of thousands of customers who drive common rail TDIs. In the past 5 years I've received fewer than five phone calls regarding HPFP replacements. This pales in comparison to calls about other issues in the common rail cars, like exhaust flaps, DPFs, turbos, etc.

I had some anxiety about the HPFP in my Golf when I owned it. I was more careful about where I fueled the car than I am with my rotary pump cars. And religious about using a lubricity additive. But I honestly don't think this is a big issue."

Now I realize that this a bit misleading as most likely VW took care of most of the failures. Not sure if this bosch distributor knows anything or not either. lol



This has good info and pics on both CP3 vs CP4: Inside the HPFP - TDIClub Forums


 

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so.....the resale value of my T2 (upgrade) with BKS engine has just gone up? SCHWEET ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Food for Thought

Ever wondered what a HPFP costs (in AU$)?

I did a ring around various Dealers and Third Party suppliers and found the following in regard to the purchase price of a replacement Bosch CP4 pump.

Understanding that the following are for the very same component, only the supplier changes.

Volkswagen Number: 059 130 755 BS___ $2,195.00
Audi Number: 059 130 755 BS_________ $3,357.00
Porsche Number: 958 110 316 22______ $4,160.00
Bosch Number: 0 445 010 685 ________ $1,692.00 **
Bosch Number: 0 445 010 685 ________ $1,495.00 ***

** Pricing from Denco Diesel in Wagga Wagga NSW.
*** Pricing on Ebay ( BOSCH FUEL PUMP 0445010685 / 0 445 010 685 | eBay )

A little searching never hurt anybody other than Stealers...

Stuart....
 

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My repairer quoted 3 hours labour. Looking at ELSAWIN it appear to be quite straight forward. It requires removal of the top half of the inlet manifold and a bit of pipe work to expose the pump. The biggest challenge to a DIY approach may be swapping over the drive pulley as it apparently requires a special tool.

Stuart...
 

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Yes Stu HPFP failure is a real costly exercise.

I believe adding either synthetic 2 stroke oil or a diesel fuel lubricity additive like Flashlube or the like to your fuel will help.

Are there enough failures out there to justify the pump as a maintenance item at say 175 to 200 kms ?
Costly exercise but way cheaper if you were to have a failure.

As a note relating to the video Touareg TDI's pumps are not driven by the timing belt and are not timed.

regards
Drag
I would not add 2 stroke oil to any touareg or diesel.

Adding 2 Stroke Oil to Diesel

I use about a little B100 every tank, if I don't have that I carry Total DIECYL PLUS additive. Treats 60 Gallons.

I buy it by the case from my vendor.

I highly suggest not using 2 stroke oil.

HERE IS THE WHOLE STUDY: http://www.fuelexpert.co.za/2-stroke-oil-in-diesel-technical-study.php
 

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Based on the results of this study, the following conclusions are drawn:

At a 200:1 volumetric blending ratio, 2-stroke oil has a negligible effect on diesel lubricity.
All diesel fuel sold in South Africa has to meet the SANS 342:2014 lubricity specification to ensure the proper protection of diesel fuel pumps and injector systems.
The low sulphur diesel products sold by Sasol contain lubricity improver additives which are far more effective than 2-stroke oil.
At a 200:1 volumetric blending ratio, 2-stroke oil has a negligible effect on diesel cetane number.
No measurable effect on all other regulated diesel properties was measured at a 200:1 dose of 2-stroke oil in diesel.
2-stroke oil can contain around 16ppm zinc, or higher depending on the formulation and batch.
Trace amounts of zinc in diesel are known to rapidly accelerate injector nozzle deposits.
Engine test results show that a 200:1 blend of 2-stroke oil in diesel results in a 2% loss of engine power in a 16 hour test due to injector fouling, a risk that would apply to any common rail diesel engine, but could also worsen fouling in older engines.

Vehicles fitted with a diesel particulate filter (DPF) in the exhaust system could experience reduced DPF life due to the collection of ash and metal based contaminants in the filter over time with the continued use of 2-stroke oil.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
My car went in to have the HPFP replaced this morning. Will collect tomorrow. Cheap insurance for a couple of grand. From this point forward I will be running a diesel fuel additive for the rest of the cars life. Currently using Flashlube. Stuart...
 
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