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VW TDI EPA Recall (2.0L and 3.0L)

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#9,521 ·
Veets said:
And what are you planning to do if the fix is unacceptable to you? If you don't get it done, you won't get the extended warranty or the other half of the compensation. In some states, you might even be required to get the fix in order to register your car. And don't plan on bringing your car to a VW dealer for service because they are required to flash the ECU. They can do this without your permission because this is considered a safety issue.
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Simple, I'll deal with that IF it happens. I'm not going to agonize about it now. My bet is the fix will not appreciably affect my TDI.
Texas doesn't "test" for emissions on diesels.
I don't think this IS a "safety" issue.
 
#9,522 · (Edited)
Veets and Jim make a good case that the settlement creates an imbalanced market until the fix is known. However, I don't quite understand how the two statements go together 1) The market is against me for the next year and 2) I want to keep my car long term, not sell it. (Or maybe the point is if anyone has it both ways it should be me, the consumer.) I think it ultimately boils down to whether you believe the fix will come in at or close to original performance, or whether you think it will be crap. I happen to think the fix will be a winner and that the long term market will be more and more favorable as demand remains higher than supply.

That said, if you are a potential BUYER of a gen 2 TDI I wouldn't sit on my hands. I wouldn't wait for the rainbow unicorn of the fixed new TDI on a dealer back lot being sold for ridiculous discount. I'd find one of the cars out there now that hasn't adjusted to the settlement news, or that a dealer will part with because he won't get the settlement $ but you, the private buyer will. Just my .02
 
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#9,523 ·
Well, the 2015 2.0L TDIs have an EPA/CARB approved fix.

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/e...ent.com/en/docs/emissions/Gen3_Emissions_Modification_Disclosure_Volkswagen.pdf

If you assume that the 3.0L Gen 2 vehicles will need similar modifications, and it meets EPA/CARB standards, this is what it might look like:

Part 1 -

An ECU flash that:

  • Changes the sound of the vehicle
  • Changes the cooling fan program that alters its sound and performance (louder, faster, slower, longer?)
  • Changes the transmission programming in Sport Mode that makes it shift faster, and at a lower RPM
  • Improves throttle response and shifting
  • Increases in DEF usage from 1% to 14%
  • Changes the high altitude transmission shift patterns that increase RPM
  • Changes OBD (on board diagnostic) software that alters thresholds of malfunction detection parameters

Part 2 -

New/replacement hardware:

  • A new DPF
  • A new Oxidation Catalyst (if under 40K miles, you will get a 2nd replacement before 150K miles under warranty, if over 40K miles, you only get one)
  • A new SCR Converter
  • A second NOX sensor
  • New labeling under hood

A new Emissions Warranty that covers hardware, turbos, entire fuel system, including HPFP, OBD system, and additional sensors.

Sounds like Sport Mode isn't Sport Mode anymore, even more CELs are going to pop with a more sensitive threshold setting, and the Oxidation Catalyst won't last more than 150K miles, just like the DPF.

If this becomes a fix for the 3.0L, they will be more of a "Maintenance Whore" than before. This reputation will filter over to the used car market, which already sees them as being less than reliable. Resale value will tank. I'm not sure who can think that fixed 3.0L's will increase in value? Just not going to happen.
 
#9,524 ·
#9,525 · (Edited)
^^182Rg: This is a very vivid nightmare. You are disinvited to come to my house to tell my kid bedtime stories. On the other hand, people can check TDI club for themselves and see how the 2015 Passat owners like their fix.

Resale prices are not the stuff of stories. There are a gajillion 2.0 TDI's leaving the market and 20k gen 1 3.0 TDI's. If the fix works, there will be demand for the gen 2's.
 
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#9,526 ·
Oh, I should add that the 2.0 TDIclub.com forum crowd is much the same as what we have here: there is an old guard who says the dream died in 200x when the last of cars that really did the things we bought them for was sold. There is an angry mob that says VW cannot do anything right ever again and needs to be drawn and quartered until dead in the public square. There are optimists like myself. Many, many people think it's a damn shame that VW dealt such a blow to the market it created and nurtured.
 
#9,528 ·
MtnPass said:
I sure would hate to see VW put out-of-business over this dieselgate ordeal. I am in the VW fan camp.
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It won't happen. I am a fan and always have been. They screwed up. I am not holding a grudge. I am also not money hungry. I bought this TDI to keep for at least 10-15 more years. So for me, I am on the fence. Breaking down the money over the next 10-15 years is nothing and I would have the car I want. I have no desire for anything else. Land Rovers are overpriced and not my style. VW touareg TDI is where it's at. I'd do a V10 but my 3.0L is perfect. I am leaning towards keeping it. It may not make sense financially but life is too short to just think about money! Since this vehicle is not much over EPA Nox levels, it does not worry me. I am curious on APR or 3rd party tuning. I am also curious if VW will have a partial fix for my Gen 1. If not Screw it. I will most likely drive it or move to 2013-14 and raise it for better offroad. I mean that is why I bought the 2010.
 
#9,529 ·
If I am reading Exhibit 1B correctly it looks like Gen 2 lessees will receive $2000 for "lessee repair payment" and additional money for "lessee restitution." Amounting to at least another $4364. Am I missing something?

14. Eligible Lessees and Eligible Former Lessees. Generation Two Eligible Lessees
who have an active lease and who choose the Lease Termination Option shall
receive a Lease Termination and Lessee Restitution. Eligible Lessees who have an
active lease, or who own the vehicle, and who choose the Approved E Modification Option shall receive a Reduced Emissions Modification (or Emissions
Compliant Repair, if ultimately available) free of charge and Lessee Restitution. Eligible Lessees who no longer lease or own the vehicle and Eligible Former Lessees shall receive Lessee Restitution, and not a Lease Termination or Reduced Emissions Modification (or Emissions Compliant Repair).
i. Lessee Restitution is composed of a fixed dollar amount that is the same for all leased Generation Two Eligible Vehicles (the “fixed component”), and a variable dollar amount (the “variable component”). The fixed component is $4,364. The variable component is one half of: (i) the amount by which Vehicle Clean Retail Value exceeds Vehicle Value, plus (ii) state and average local sales taxes on the Vehicle Clean Retail Value using the tax table attached to this Exhibit.
 
#9,530 ·
samotreg said:
If I am reading Exhibit 1B correctly it looks like Gen 2 lessees will receive $2000 for "lessee repair payment" and additional money for "lessee restitution." Amounting to at least another $4364. Am I missing something?

14. Eligible Lessees and Eligible Former Lessees. Generation Two Eligible Lessees
who have an active lease and who choose the Lease Termination Option shall
receive a Lease Termination and Lessee Restitution. Eligible Lessees who have an
active lease, or who own the vehicle, and who choose the Approved E Modification Option shall receive a Reduced Emissions Modification (or Emissions
Compliant Repair, if ultimately available) free of charge and Lessee Restitution. Eligible Lessees who no longer lease or own the vehicle and Eligible Former Lessees shall receive Lessee Restitution, and not a Lease Termination or Reduced Emissions Modification (or Emissions Compliant Repair).
i. Lessee Restitution is composed of a fixed dollar amount that is the same for all leased Generation Two Eligible Vehicles (the “fixed component”), and a variable dollar amount (the “variable component”). The fixed component is $4,364. The variable component is one half of: (i) the amount by which Vehicle Clean Retail Value exceeds Vehicle Value, plus (ii) state and average local sales taxes on the Vehicle Clean Retail Value using the tax table attached to this Exhibit.
Click to expand...
There will be no restitution portion unless there is no approved repair.
 
#9,531 ·
182RG said:
Well, the 2015 2.0L TDIs have an EPA/CARB approved fix.

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/e...ent.com/en/docs/emissions/Gen3_Emissions_Modification_Disclosure_Volkswagen.pdf

If you assume that the 3.0L Gen 2 vehicles will need similar modifications, and it meets EPA/CARB standards, this is what it might look like:

Part 1 -

An ECU flash that:

  • Changes the sound of the vehicle
  • Changes the cooling fan program that alters its sound and performance (louder, faster, slower, longer?)
  • Changes the transmission programming in Sport Mode that makes it shift faster, and at a lower RPM
  • Improves throttle response and shifting
  • Increases in DEF usage from 1% to 14%
  • Changes the high altitude transmission shift patterns that increase RPM
  • Changes OBD (on board diagnostic) software that alters thresholds of malfunction detection parameters

Part 2 -

New/replacement hardware:

  • A new DPF
  • A new Oxidation Catalyst (if under 40K miles, you will get a 2nd replacement before 150K miles under warranty, if over 40K miles, you only get one)
  • A new SCR Converter
  • A second NOX sensor
  • New labeling under hood

A new Emissions Warranty that covers hardware, turbos, entire fuel system, including HPFP, OBD system, and additional sensors.

Sounds like Sport Mode isn't Sport Mode anymore, even more CELs are going to pop with a more sensitive threshold setting, and the Oxidation Catalyst won't last more than 150K miles, just like the DPF.

If this becomes a fix for the 3.0L, they will be more of a "Maintenance Whore" than before. This reputation will filter over to the used car market, which already sees them as being less than reliable. Resale value will tank. I'm not sure who can think that fixed 3.0L's will increase in value? Just not going to happen.
Click to expand...
As someone looking for an MKVII Golf, this makes it more valuable to me. A complete emissions system warranty, plus a new DPF, CAT, and SCR. If you get a manual transmisson what's not to like? I personally would pay more for a Golf with the fix than a comparable one without.
 
#9,532 ·
Did new owners of Saturns, Pontiacs, and Oldsmobiles get restitution when GM abruptly pulled the plug on those brands and the market value of the suddenly-orphaned cars became a big unknown practically overnight? I'm asking because I don't know and because there are similarities to our TDI predicament.
 
#9,533 ·
Oregon TDI said:
Did new owners of Saturns, Pontiacs, and Oldsmobiles get restitution when GM abruptly pulled the plug on those brands and the market value of the suddenly-orphaned cars became a big unknown practically overnight? I'm asking because I don't know and because there are similarities to our TDI predicament.
Click to expand...
I don't believe so. Owners got screwed.
 
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#9,534 ·
frostyflax17 said:
finding correct info in this gigantic thread is like pulling teeth.

the september 2015 nada values are on page 677
http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f89/vw-tdi-epa-recall-2-0l-and-3-0l-216585-677.html#post1649889

november 2015 is on page 778
http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f89/vw-tdi-epa-recall-2-0l-and-3-0l-216585-778.html#post1679450

links for helping with the calculations
https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/cases-proceedings/162-3006/volkswagen-group-america-inc

i can't seem to find the calculator sharkwaldo made up

interesting table from jettagetupandgo for reasons to park your car and hold on to it to turn it in
http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f89/vw-tdi-epa-recall-2-0l-and-3-0l-216585-885.html#post1712122

We need to sticky this info somewhere, searching through almost 500 pages is ridiculous lol
Click to expand...
I view this post as the defacto source.

In it, the FTC link shows an Exhibit A wherein I see the following:

"If a Certified Emissions Repair is timely available"

2016 TDI Exec: $10,935-11,101 with the understanding that the payout is half "now", half after the emission repair is completed (correct?)

"If a certified repair is NOT timely available:

2016 TDI Exec: $15,338 - $20,825.00 presumably, the payout happens quickly should the "fix" not be approved. (correct?)
-or-
Buyback: $68,609 - 75,186 You have the option of foregoing the above payout and turning in the keys (May 2018?)

While I still maintain a better settlement would have allowed a Gen 2 owner to walk upfront, I now see that VW has removed the stinger somewhat by significantly increasing the restitution range by (some 50 - 90%) should they be unable to fix them.

Pass the popcorn. My VIN is in the mix. Cheers
 
#9,535 ·
Got my calculator half done, then haven't had any time. It's on the books for this weekend so hopefully I can get the last few bugs squashed, validate it against some test calculations, and get it out there. (it doesn't help that I didn't know JavaScript when I started so I've been learning it at the same time)
 
#9,537 ·
MTreg said:
Takata to everybody
Click to expand...
I've got a Takata equipped car in my fleet, an '05 A6. Maybe a second, not sure yet (the '04 allroad).

Through Jan 31, and maybe further, Audi was offering an additional bump if an owner traded a Takata equipped Audi when buying a new or CPO Audi. The bump ranged from $1500-$3000, if I remember correctly, based on the model being purchased.

It was a small token, but purely for the purposes of brand-building.

In the meantime, we were notified almost exactly a year ago that our A6 has an affected airbag, and we've heard nothing since. Not a big surprise, Takata will take five years to produce enough replacement airbags to cover all the cars currently identified. And they're focusing on replacements for vehicles in higher risk environments (heat, humidity).
 
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#9,538 ·
I think I'm done with VW. Don't get me wrong, I love our 12 Touareg but dealing with VW is just too much. I think the straw that broke my back was they fixed the pax seat heat under warranty. I told them that the drivers seat sometimes does the same thing. They wouldn't fix it because it wasn't hard failed (understandable as you can't fix what's not broken) but when it hard failed 20 miles out of warranty and my claim was denied............

I think I'm going to spend the bucks on a new Discovery with the TD6.

Done with VW. This from someone with 4 German cars.

John
 
#9,539 ·
lml999 said:
I've got a Takata equipped car in my fleet, an '05 A6. Maybe a second, not sure yet (the '04 allroad).

Through Jan 31, and maybe further, Audi was offering an additional bump if an owner traded a Takata equipped Audi when buying a new or CPO Audi. The bump ranged from $1500-$3000, if I remember correctly, based on the model being purchased.

It was a small token, but purely for the purposes of brand-building.

In the meantime, we were notified almost exactly a year ago that our A6 has an affected airbag, and we've heard nothing since. Not a big surprise, Takata will take five years to produce enough replacement airbags to cover all the cars currently identified. And they're focusing on replacements for vehicles in higher risk environments (heat, humidity).
Click to expand...
Our Q5 had the pending Takata recall. When we were ready to trade, we learned several of the dealerships we were negotiating with wouldn't take it, and those that would reduced the trade value because they couldn't/wouldn't sell it un-repaired. One dealership was parking them until they could be fixed, but most admitted it would go to auction. The used car dealer that purchased ours at auction put it on the lot immediately. Of course the Autotrader ad mentions nothing about the recall.
 
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#9,540 ·
Oregon TDI said:
Did new owners of Saturns, Pontiacs, and Oldsmobiles get restitution when GM abruptly pulled the plug on those brands and the market value of the suddenly-orphaned cars became a big unknown practically overnight? I'm asking because I don't know and because there are similarities to our TDI predicament.
Click to expand...
No manufacturer makes any warranty or guarantee, expressed or implied, to buyers that they will stay in business or will keep building your model in the future.
 
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