Possible battery problem V10 - question

Tonycrd · Apr 23, 2015

Hi all, had the T1 in at VW last tuesday to code keys (of the 3 that came with the car only 1 worked). Took them about an hour to fix, no prob. Drove to work (2 miles) and parked it. When I wanted to go home, no MFI. Start engine, bam: 4x4 error, headlight level system error etc, the usual when you have low Volts. (as I found out here)

I thought it was because of the recoding of the keys, maybe the dealer had the ignition on for quite some time. So drove home, took a detour to charge the batteries, but the next morning I found my poor Treg dead, no alarm, no response to the remote. Emergency start procedure: engine on, everything seems to work as it should.

Drove it for 25 miles/ half an hour: later that day same problems. So it seems one of the batteries is dead. Most likely the one under my seat since there is no MFI / central lock / alarm at wake up.

I've been reading a lot about how the system works and how to swap the batteries (great how to's on here). But I still have a doubt:

It's a twin battery setup, do I have to connect a 12V power supply to keep radio memory etc or does it draw power from the rear battery when you disconnect the front one?

dragline1570 · Apr 23, 2015

Tonycrd said:
Hi all, had the T1 in at VW last tuesday to code keys (of the 3 that came with the car only 1 worked). Took them about an hour to fix, no prob. Drove to work (2 miles) and parked it. When I wanted to go home, no MFI. Start engine, bam: 4x4 error, headlight level system error etc, the usual when you have low Volts. (as I found out here)

I thought it was because of the recoding of the keys, maybe the dealer had the ignition on for quite some time. So drove home, took a detour to charge the batteries, but the next morning I found my poor Treg dead, no alarm, no response to the remote. Emergency start procedure: engine on, everything seems to work as it should.

Drove it for 25 miles/ half an hour: later that day same problems. So it seems one of the batteries is dead. Most likely the one under my seat since there is no MFI / central lock / alarm at wake up.

I've been reading a lot about how the system works and how to swap the batteries (great how to's on here). But I still have a doubt:

It's a twin battery setup, do I have to connect a 12V power supply to keep radio memory etc or does it draw power from the rear battery when you disconnect the front one?

What the concern about radio station memory?
Just change battery and reset stations

Regards
Drag

Tonycrd · Apr 23, 2015

I don't have the security code for it...](*,)

dragline1570 · Apr 23, 2015

Tonycrd said:
I don't have the security code for it...](*,)

Sorry I misunderstood
If its the original radio the code is automatic at least it is on my RNS2?

regards
Drag

Tonycrd · Apr 23, 2015

Yes it's a RNS2. Maybe it only needs the code if you take it out of the car, but better safe then sorry I guess.

dragline1570 · Apr 23, 2015

Tonycrd said:
Yes it's a RNS2. Maybe it only needs the code if you take it out of the car, but better safe then sorry I guess.

I have had mine in and out quite a few times and never had to enter the code when put back. But I do have the code if needed so I understand your concern.

regards
Drag

Singh · Apr 23, 2015

Call the dealer, quote the vin and get the pin

noobytoogy · Apr 23, 2015

I can't vouch for a V10 but I've changed the battery twice on my V6 with no 12V hook up and didn't lose anything, not even the radio stations.

4ePikanini · Apr 23, 2015

noobytoogy said:
I can't vouch for a V10 but I've changed the battery twice on my V6 with no 12V hook up and didn't lose anything, not even the radio stations.

Same with my R5 that looked like this

noobytoogy · Apr 23, 2015

Your buttons are in good order!

Ians touareg · Apr 23, 2015

It's cause he lost the pin, now can't use itkaboom

noobytoogy · Apr 23, 2015

Very good! I was going to add he probably likes travelling in silence but your suggestion is far better!

Time we had an update on that V10 of yours.

Ians touareg · Apr 23, 2015

However, on a more serious note, it won't hurt to check the rear battery first, that is the starter battery and the easiest to get too. minimum volts on the starter battery is 11.5 volts and the one under the seat or comfort is 10.5 volts, the comfort battery will supplement the starter battery so called emergency start, Once started the comfort battery is continuously charged or should be. The starter battery is also charged but in 20 minute cycles.

The alternator will charge the starter for the said 20minutes, it will then check the voltage and if needed will recycle another 20 minutes, it will do this as long as the starter battery needs it.

So removing the starter battery does not need to have a feeder charge attached to the engine bay terminals.

Ians touareg · Apr 23, 2015

noobytoogy said:
Very good! I was going to add he probably likes travelling in silence but your suggestion is far better!

Time we had an update on that V10 of yours.

Mine is now hunky dory, I have four new shocks, but as it is now out of their warranty, I have to rely on my own, I need to replace the rear wishbone bush on the castor/camber adjustment eccentric bolt, this is however, well and truly rust welded in place. the solution is a new bush and eccentric bolt. problem is I may do more damage by trying to burn the old one(s) out and I would need a pretty heavy press to reinstall and new bushes.

As the other two mounting bolts look about the same as the others I would end up with 3 new bushes. Simplest job replace the two rear wishbones (£120 the pair) and fit new bolts, which are ordered at VW. You are aware about the headlight sprayer that is a VW Germany only part and is on order.

I have just bought a pair of second hand turbos with the vane control boxes and actuators. I have tested the run out with my DTI and I get a 0.001 run out on the turbine shafts effectively no movement. Compressor vanes are working with no tight spots, no burning on either side of the core. All in all a great buy at £150 for the PAIR !!!!

My headlight passenger side was toast, the small hex nut that you turn was being held in by a cracked body, so that's toast, Got a new one for £50.00

Looking at buying a used front bumper member, as I am trying to get some details from VW on the bumper bar they used for the factory fit winch. I will then make suitable adjustments by welding plate steel in the right place to take a winch.

VW have confirmed to a friend of mine in Holland that the winch does not interfere with deploying the air bags if needed.

Also the front ultrasound sensor will not be affected either. I will then just have to make my bull bar, and my under body protection plates. They are no longer available from VW so either you make your own or have them made, I have a plasma cutter that can handle up to 5/8" steel plate.

But I will make mine from 1/4" ally tread plate. I can Mig, Stick and Tig weld what more do I need to do the job but measure three times and cut twice. :chainsaw:

noobytoogy · Apr 23, 2015

Ians touareg said:
However, on a more serious note, it won't hurt to check the rear battery first, that is the starter battery and the easiest to get too. minimum volts on the starter battery is 11.5 volts and the one under the seat or comfort is 10.5 volts, the comfort battery will supplement the starter battery so called emergency start, Once started the comfort battery is continuously charged or should be. The starter battery is also charged but in 20 minute cycles.

The alternator will charge the starter for the said 20minutes, it will then check the voltage and if needed will recycle another 20 minutes, it will do this as long as the starter battery needs it.

So removing the starter battery does not need to have a feeder charge attached to the engine bay terminals.

I think the 20 minute Lance Armstrong for the start battery is new info. How did you discover that?

lgibson · Apr 24, 2015

The Bentley for T1's gives dire warnings about the proper order for disconnecting/reconnecting the two batteries, mentioning damage to expensive electrical components. There may have been some changes in the battery relay that prevents problems. Personally I always observe Bentley's order: disconnect front first, reconnect front last.

Tonycrd · Apr 24, 2015

Well, it's still dead so tomorrow I´ll take the front battery out. I'll take my chances on leaving the Treg with only one battery, because it seems the front one is KIA and there is no power on any system at the moment anyway.

And I need my charger to try and revive the battery so I can make sure it's not just discharged due to a different problem. I now have sleepless nights over something drawing power after the dealer did something to my system. I noticed the comfort menu is different after I got it back :? they said nothing about a software change/update but still, it's different ............but lets take it one step at a time. Thanks for all your thoughts and tips so far.

While I'm in there, I'll have a look at the 18324 error (Coolant Circulation Pump Relay (J151), Short to Ground) it had for a while now. It also keeps coming back with 18315/18316 but those seem to be part of everyone's scan.

Ians touareg · Apr 24, 2015

noobytoogy said:
I think the 20 minute Lance Armstrong for the start battery is new info. How did you discover that?

Okay so just to show I can read and not just look starry eyed at the pictures.

I did take your advice and done the self study bit. So this is the extract from the VW SS..

Charging
Charging of the starter and onboard power supply battery

The onboard power supply battery is charged continuously.

The starter battery is charged via the second battery/starter battery charging circuit relay J713. This is actuated by the onboard power supply control unit J519.

The normal charging time is 20 minutes. After this period the relay will open. If the starter battery voltage drops below 12.8 Volt, a new charging cycle of 20 minutes maximum is started.

While the glow plugs are active, the relay stays closed.
If voltage supply relay 1 J701 does not open after the engine has been started because the contacts are sticking for example, the charging circuit relay J713 will close after four minutes until the ignition is switched off.

The onboard power supply derives its power from both batteries which are connected in parallel and protected against overload by relay J701.

So Lance Armstrong has nowt to do with it :mrgreen:

Tonycrd · Apr 29, 2015

Ok, time to update this thread. I put the old battery for 24h on my little 5 Amp charger and it took the charge, it was at 8 Volts when it came out, now showing 12.6V on the digital tester. Then I used my load toaster, it showed normal, dropped only to 11.5V on full load (and then the tester got seriously hot, I pulled the trigger for at least 30 seconds). However, since this is such a big battery (110Ah) that was misleading.

Testing it with an acid tester: 1 as good as dead cell and the other 5 holding minimal charge. Never seen that before, a battery in bad condition and still that much power. So I dropped in a new Varta I1 today and...mini heart attack. Turn key:nothing. :confused2:

Took up to a minute or so before the I got a response and the the MFI came alive. Treg was 'starting windows' I guess. Did an AMP test, tester doesn't even move with car in sleep mode so no power drain. Engine on, volts on dash jumps right away to 14V while before that was 13 and a little bit V. Amazing how sensitive this little gadget is, well done VW. Load test on battery:14.2V.

Radio flashes 'safe mode - enter code' screen for 3 seconds and then turns on my favorite radio station, so you guys were right, no need for back up power when you unplug the battery.

Then....the plastic upholstery around the seat sliders...is that German humor? The DIY should be updated for the T1, do not tilt your seat while you still have the plastics in place, the rear ends will snap off and that is not funny. To get this crap back in place is no walk in the park either. They are held with some metal clips that only work if you slide in the plastics, they do not 'click on'.

Tip: if you have a dead utility battery, put some jumper cables on your Treg so you can move the drivers seat. Put it in the utmost upper position otherwise you almost cannot get the big lower front cover off without braking something. Then move it all the way forward and (from the back seat) remove the rear short slider covers. Just pull them towards you and they will come right off. Then put the seat in the utmost rearward position and pull the front slider covers. Look closely how they are fitted.

I found 4 eurocents and 3 business cards in the void between the central console and the seat..yay

I also had look at the Coolant pump error, relay checks out fine, swapped it with the fuel cooler relay, still same error coming back on OBD. Darn..so it's not the relay. Will test more this weekend....

Ians touareg · Apr 29, 2015

Great update. should be made into a sticky....

Possible battery problem V10 - question

Tonycrd

dragline1570

Tonycrd

dragline1570

Tonycrd

dragline1570

Singh

noobytoogy

4ePikanini

noobytoogy

Ians touareg

noobytoogy

Ians touareg

Ians touareg

noobytoogy

lgibson

Tonycrd

Ians touareg

Tonycrd

Ians touareg

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