I'll admit I wouldn't mind a couple of free turbos "just in case". It was a HUGE bill the first time around.

 

You know the turbos are not a big problem. Rebuilding turbos are reasonable. It's getting them out or these cars and then replacing them that is the problem. Like 20+ hours of problem plus all the dealer fees for supplies. How much did it finally cost you?

 

You are suing VWOA for issues with a model they never sold in the USA?

And why would you sue for a recall? I had my glow plugs changed and paid for by VWOA under the recall.

As far as suing for the issue of getting the turbos out of the car, that seems like suing for difficult to change spark plugs. I can understand suing for parts that consistently fail well before they are supposed to fail but not because they are engineered into a small package making them difficult to replace.

 

Hi Spockcat:

Car was bought new in San Antonio TX in 2004 from a VW dealership. 2004 USA model before they stopped selling due to emission issues. I think there were 400 sold before they put the remain at the port back on the boat back to Germany.

The glow plug recall was denied by VW because I software issues last year and again 3 weeks ago. I have tried on three occasions to have them repair/replace but they denied the recall.

It really sounds far less insane once I explain your questions. Like I said, suing is my last choice, but the path VW has chosen.

Do you think they expected to pay $31.5 million just in legal fees for sunroofs?

 

With all due respect, but this is the exact reason we dont' see Many options on vehicles in North america, Canada, or USA from VW, AUDI, BMW, Mercedes. Options such as

Lane assist( where the vehicle steers its-self)
Radar assisted cruise control
Auto adjusting headlamps.
I'll even throw in the V8 TDI and Air suspension in there.

Basically the more options u have in a vehicle the more technically advanced it is, the more it's going to cost for service, maintenance and replacement. Also the more chances the auto manufacturer is going to get sued by people not expecting the high replacement cost of these items. It's really Vw's fault for not pricing the vechicles in euros here in n/a.
If you think the cost is too high, perhaps it's out of your price range.

Glow plugs are cheap you could get 10 of them for about 150 dollars with a couple hours install they can be replaced. As for turbo many other's have mentioned the big cost is the replacement not neccessarily the part.
Excuse me for being way off the wall here, but I think lawsuits like this do the rest of us more harm than good.

 

Spockcat:

Sorry, missed the last paragraph.

Thank you for all of your past postings with help for these cars.

I don't know of too many cars that require the engine to be removed to change a spark plug. But my point is that turbos are not a common maintenance item, meaning they are not expected to be removed at intervals, and because they have to due to material defects the cost incurred should be the owner. Point is similar with the prop shaft. What the heck is wrong with those that they require replacement at 60-70,000 miles. Turbos should last 2-300k especially with the fancy 505.01 505.05 oil that VW requires. VW would have covered the turbos, if they failed 40k ago like many turbos have. I always heat motor fully before boosting and let the car cool when hot before shutdown. All I did was prevent the inevitable from happening sooner by taking better care of the engine.

I have 2 benz diesels. The Garrett turbos on those cars are lifetime warranty and I have one with 350k on it. One blows and it goes to the dealer for replacement, free of charge.
​

 

I've had the glowplug recall done at no charge, a generator replaced under warranty, and the driveshaft carrier bearing failed and we replaced it ourselves (although I suppose I could have paid the $100 and waited the 4 weeks to get one under warranty). So far, no turbo problems.

Nancy

 

First thing you have to do is drop any mention of the Phaeton. It was never sold in the USA with the V10. So don't cloud the issue by lumping in a model never sold here.

Second, I just got a letter from VWOA today about warranty extension for the 2004-2006 V10 under Emissions Service Action 28E6/R8 (glow plug replacement). You probably need to get a regional rep involved if your dealer is denying the glow plug recall.

I do agree that the prop shaft bearing is an issue that VWOA should be covering under an extended warranty.

 

I agree, drop the Phaeton thing...its just noise.

The glow plug thing is also noise IMO, sounds like you have a dealer issue, I got mine replaced no questions asked...

I don't see how anyone can argue against the turbo and shaft bearing failures, turbos shouldn't go at 120K kms, I can well afford it (and was lucky to have it covered under warranty) but a $7000 replacement bill is BS. I don't see how anyone can argue the money angle, these turbos cost $2000 each -the engine needs to be dropped to replaced them. All that is fine and dandy and an expected maintenance cost for a vehicle at this price point -At maybe 500K kms, not the 100-140K we've all seen them fail at.

For comparison sake the two turbos in my Ford diesel require the entire cab to be removed to replace them (so same idea as the V10 when it comes to cost of replacement), these turbos are lasting well past 500K MILES (assuming they even fail) -oh yes, and thats on cheap $2 buck a quart dino oil, not the $10 a quart synth brew the V10 chugs back.

 

I'm with Samtroper on this one, but at the end of the day, findre is getting a lawyer involved lets not forget that. This is the reality of how society and culture is in that part of the world. Just how it is accept it, as much as we all love to pretend to hate it. Depending on his pocket and the capabilities of his lawyer, which I imagine probably go hand in hand, these guys are capable of proving that the red pen you are holding in your hand is really green(but in reality still red ).

Good luck in your case, if yor lawyer thinks you have one. If it means a free turbo or driveshaft to some of us, more power to you I suppose.

 

I do understand the suing point of view from the Canadians. This is my first time even considering such a thing. But VW has no provision to repair these and there is a very high percentage of failures compared to units sold. VW will be on notice and can handle the issue however they choose.

Turbos on diesels should not fail at 110k miles, period.... I have owned too many and have never had a failure.

Phaeton is considered because they have the same engine and ALSO the same problem, but for some reason Phaeton outside the US had a service bulletin recommending change out of the turbos. You all are correct, Phaeton is not a Touareg, but they have the same motor, same turbo and the same issue...

I can afford the repair and maintenance, as the Candians put it, but that doesn't mean that I should have to spend the dollars. I'd rather buy my wife a fancy birthday present instead of paying the dealership. USD or EUR is pointless. Bad design is bad design. The more you pay for something gives an expectation of better quality, not more responsibility to the car for its short comings.

Dollars for technology is great, as long as it works. Am I wrong thinking a car that costs $65,000 should last longer than one that costs $45,000?

That's why people buy Lexus, which I DO NOT own. Sorry for the rant. I don't work for Volkswagen or service them or I'd be an advocate. Dollar for dollar this VW was the worst purchase I've made.

 

I continue to read threads like this and marvel at how different our experiences are, as like owners. I bought an '06 from the original owner that had a CEL on and upon bringing the Treg to my local dealership who embraced resolving the issue, which included involving VWOA and replacing all fuel system and exhaust system components eventually... Needless to say, this was done with a smile, with a loaner provided each time work was performed, and never any grief or invoices. This includes work done after 50k miles on the clock.
It just makes me wonder if it's more the dealer/service dept, QTM, or VWOA that is really the barrier. Why would VWOA stand behind me/my situation, but not the OP? I have a hard time believing it's VWOA, and an easier time believing it's cultural with the dealership/service dept or QTM.

So I have provided no answers to your issue; but is it possible that before you involve an attorney you could attempt final engagement with your QTM or VWOA who may not know what your dealership is doing (potentially marginalizing recall costs/mo figures for example, or incorrectly representing you)?

I'm proud to say my local VW dealer treats me, as someone who did not buy my Treg there, as well as my wife's Infiniti dealership, where we have purchased 2 vehicles, treats us...

For those of us with V10s, we know we bought something unique, but I'm sure many of us didn't expect such reliability issues with extremely high maintenance costs. For example, go price out O2 sensor replacement and be sure to be sitting down!

I wish you luck and hope this does not have to cost you anything out of pocket.

 

Just got off the phone with VWOA. This was a follow up call that Vista VW recommended I do. Vista told me to have the case escalated so that an area Rep. would get involved.

Again, I was told that the recall for the Glow Plugs was suspended and that until they rework the software. The Rep. offered no date, but said I would be contacted when available and no recall repairs will be made until then.

Glow Plugs have gone on for two years. I'm in Florida, I don't need glow plugs. If I lived in a vehicle inspection state, I would have to either park my car in the garage when the registration expired or pay for the repair myself and hope to get reimbursed. The recall says that I would be reimbursed upon submitting the bill, but that is questionable at this point.

Second, about the turbos. I was told the case was reviewed and based on 109k miles and it being an 04, that there would be no assistance. The case has gone to the highest level and they will not involve the area service rep.

At this point their decision is final and the only thing I can do is write a letter. Strangely, the Rep. told me I had to pursue outside sources for assistance in getting the repairs done. I have no idea what she meant by that even after asking twice what she was talking about.

The Garrett GT1852v that are in this car are in most Mercedes CDI's along with many other vehicles. MB warranties these for life. 15 years down the road, turbo goes, take it to the dealership and presto its fixed. My VW service manager admitted that to me, but I already knew it having had many MB TDs with 150+. I sold a 1999 E300TD with over 200k with same GT turbo in this Touareg...no problems. I presently have 2 MB 300SDLs that my kids drive: one with 150k and the other with 350K. My Ford 7.3 Powerstroke has 200k, with a Garrett, and runs like new.

This is typical corporate check box customer service: miles: year, etc. I am not even sure the person I spoke to owned a car. I asked and she wasnt sure if there was vehicle inspection in Michigan (where I was calling). They have no technical background and 109k is scary mileage for a any car. The fact that its diesel seemed to not make a difference. If the car is over 3/36 or 5/60 they get hard of hearing and only have a blank stare if the conversation is over 5 minutes.

The people that I am talking to are the same people that are responsible for the prior class action suits that VW has settled and are still defending, all of which were probably resolvable. VW pays tens of millions for bad customer service. Too bad for VW. New 2011 Touareg is powertrain covered for 10/100k. VW must have fixed a few things.

 

I think it is all relative. For comparision sake, I will compare the V1O TDI to the domestic diesels, when the Duramax came out in 2001 it had its fair shair of problems along with the later powerstrokes (6.0/6.4). Unfortunately manufacturers like the first of the models to be used on unsuspecting customers. Sounds like the 04 had its kinks as my 06 has been pretty good and I have towed the hell out of it. Did have to replace the glowplugs though.

On the issue fo the V10 turbos, perhaps it is a matter of cooling as the whole motor is shoehorned into a small engine bay. I have no idea what the EGTs are on this. I'm thinking you can VAG com this??

I will say that filling out the customer service surveys usually brings alot of positive response out of the service department.

Germans overengineer things to a fault like the driveshaft, I mean a U joint or hanger bearing would be more simple and robust. Might be why they lost the war

 

If you don't mind an Aussie putting in his two bobs worth, my 2004 V10 did the driveshaft support bearing at between 70-75,000 kilometres, that's under 50,000 miles! It was covered by extended warrantee, but had to be towed/lifted 500+k/300 miles to the nearest dealer. Because I had top level motoring organisation cover, after a battle I managed to have a hire car supplied to get home.

I was quoted in excess of $800.00 for repair if I was paying myself. This is because VW will only supply the complete driveshaft as a replacement part, when the complete driveshaft support bearing including the rubber bush and metal fixing plate is available for $80.99 from a US parts supplier.

I'm now getting close to having to replace the next one as my next big trip is a round trip of 7000k with 3300k / 2060 miles between dealerships. Sorry, but under 50,000 miles just doesn't cut it when you're paying this much for a car. Here in Oz, with all of our Gov. charges and protection for "local" industry this car was over $142,000 on the road. For that money I expect a bit better!

 

If i am not mistaken a Garret GT turbo is a recent design. Your old MBs had the regular T turbo design or even the K turbo design.

Turbochargers require repair, they have journal/ball bearings and rubber seals that do wear out. Combine that with the soot from the engine and i think your turbos went bad at the right time. I would be happy to get that kind of milage from turbos connected to a V10 Diesel.

If you thought they would honor a mercedes warranty, you should have read the fine print. If you want reliability, go buy a toyota. If you want a rewarding car that will continue to give back, get out your pocketbook and be prepared to pay for those rewards.

You are posting this to a community that own a car that love it enough to drive it every day, pay for its repairs and then spend thier time on the internet TALKING about how much they love driving and repairing thier cars.

Your old MBs are rock solid great cars. Next time buy a late model Mercedes, they may replace that turbo for you, but you pay for it with MORE trips to the dealer, and faster depreciation.

 

Funny...

Yeah, I just replaced my prop shaft last week, and then this week took it in for an oil change and as I was leaving noticed there was suddenly no power... Turned around told the mechanic there was something wrong, and turns out one of my turbos needs replacing... Good to know these are common problems. I have 82,000 miles on it.

 

I find it hard to believe its the turbo. Maybe the variable vain servo/controller.

More likely a hose was disconnected by accident. The turbo just doesnt die.

 

dead turbo

Im crossing my fingers, it was pretty odd and seems like an expensive oil change... The first thing I figured was sabotage, maybe they need some extra work, but I don't know... it was super sluggish leaving the dealership so I immediately turned around, hoping they hadn't forgotten to put oil back in it or something like that... the check engine light didn't come on until the mechanic revved the engine a couple times trying to convince me I was imagining there was a problem.

 

The turbo replacement is a 10k+ deal. They usually do not go under car for oil change, they vacuum it from the top. There are connections to turbo controllers they sometimes fail. Plus numerous other things that typically go bad. Its probably the best Engine made, with the worst electronics and computer systems of all time. They will run for a million miles if you can keep everything not part of the block the block from failing. Once again, it was the worst car purchase I ever made. When its not flashing errors, engine lights, and beeping, its really a blast to drive.