I am looking at the Touareg V6 TDI 2006 to 2009 to use to tow a trailer weighing approximately 6000 pounds loaded. I have found a great deal of information about the Touareg and its capabilities, but concerning its capabilities to pull that weight up a 6% grade, the only information I have found is "you won't be the first at the top of the hill." Although this is cute, it is not very informative. For those of you who tow, please tell me will this vehicle be able to tow a 6000 pound trailer and maintain a 55 mph speed on a 6% grade at or below 3000 rpm's? Thank you.
Towing ability
JGriffith
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The European standard is a minimum of 4%, the EU Touareg having a 3500kg towing limit, the maximum permitted for vehicles which can be driven on a car driver's licence and a noseweight/tongueweight limit of 140kg, 4% of the towing limit.
Weight distribution hitches are rare in Europe, if not unknown.
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I stand corrected. I also looked it up because I had read 8% prior, no idea if this is a long standing rule but: the minimum hitch weight must be 25kg or 4% of the loaded trailer weight and may not exceed 800kg. It looks like z Germans doubled the 4% for the 3,500kg (7,716lbs) for 280kg (616lbs) and neglected to look at min US culture until later on when people started bringing it up??? My source is: http://www.linguee.de/deutsch-englisch/uebersetzung/stützlast.html
For those who are planning to tow larger trailer, there are a lot of useful information over Airstream forum. Many AS owners towing with German SUVs. There is always the "only truck can tow" crowd that is trying to convenience the whole world that towing larger trailers with SUVs is not safe, not possible, etc.
I am planning to tow 33 ft Jayco trailer with BMW X5. The hitch is just being reinforced (look for Can-Am RV reinforcement) and ProPride WD hitch will be installed (ProPride = no sway).
I am planning to tow 33 ft Jayco trailer with BMW X5. The hitch is just being reinforced (look for Can-Am RV reinforcement) and ProPride WD hitch will be installed (ProPride = no sway).
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We just climbed the west side Wolf Creek pass with our 2009 TDI and 5000 lbs travel trailer two days ago. The grade is up to 7.5 %. The speed limit is 45 miles per hour. It took about 15 to 20 minutes to climb this very long steep grade.
We had plenty of room on the throttle for more speed but choose not to speed. Kept the engine speed around 2500 to 2700 rpms. The engine temperature hovered around 220 degrees. Keep in mind the elevation of this pass is nearly 11000 feet.
The Touareg handed it just fine!
We had plenty of room on the throttle for more speed but choose not to speed. Kept the engine speed around 2500 to 2700 rpms. The engine temperature hovered around 220 degrees. Keep in mind the elevation of this pass is nearly 11000 feet.
The Touareg handed it just fine!
This is the anomaly of international regulations - 3500/140 kg in EU, 3500/280 kg in USA, but I'd put money on there being no structural differences between the two versions. I noticed this before of a Hyundai Santa Fe which has 2000/80 kg limits in Europe but 2000/150 kg limits in Australia, but no changes.
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Black, I would concur with that. Had many long discussions with VW as well as VW parts warehouse. Many of the same part number, same part exactly, but different sticker indicating max tongue load: some 616 lbs others 770 lbs (280 kg / 350 kg). No one thought this was strange but myself. I picked one with 770 lbs (350 kg) written on a sticker and VWofA said "good, correct" just like that was the correct tongue weight; like the sticker is what was the determining factor. A piece of paper basically. Therefore I say it's the layers business, not some mechanical / structural bit. Maddening really. Of note: all that I saw were rated 7,716 lbs (3,500 kg) for towing.
I have huge respect for the engineers at most car makers - but then the local legal and marketing people get to work and change things out of all recognition.
My caravan (travel trailer) is 1500 kg (3307 lbs) will be towed by my upcoming Touareg with noseweight adjusted to 100 kg (6.7%) as that's the limit on the A-frame/hitch. I previously towed it with a Hyundai Santa Fe with noseweight adjusted to 80 kg (5.3%) as that is the car's legal limit. The caravan is fitted with automatic overrun brakes, a friction-damper hitch and an electric stability system that operates in emergency manoeuvres.
I haven't had any bad towing at 70+ mph with the Santa Fe and expect even less issue with the heavier, more powerful Touareg.
My caravan (travel trailer) is 1500 kg (3307 lbs) will be towed by my upcoming Touareg with noseweight adjusted to 100 kg (6.7%) as that's the limit on the A-frame/hitch. I previously towed it with a Hyundai Santa Fe with noseweight adjusted to 80 kg (5.3%) as that is the car's legal limit. The caravan is fitted with automatic overrun brakes, a friction-damper hitch and an electric stability system that operates in emergency manoeuvres.
I haven't had any bad towing at 70+ mph with the Santa Fe and expect even less issue with the heavier, more powerful Touareg.
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You won't even know it is there. Watch this video of the Touareg's twin wrestling down a box trailer. That likely weighs even more than that. Be patient, the first half of the clip talks about Airstream, which really isn't my point. Link:
the trailer actually leaves the ground and the Cayenne wrestles it back down with little effort.
The Touareg is an excellent tow vehicle...I know it very well...my V8 towed for 30,000 miles of its life.
If you read the many posts, what you'll find is setup is key to any towing setup. 10% should be on the hitch, make sure you are within all your weight ratings on both vehicles (learn about GVWR, GCVWR, GAWR).
Don't go nuts though and make sure you use the right vehicle for the conditions.
Right tool for the right job, My touareg towed my Jayco exceptionally well and we enjoyed a number of amazing trips with it (30,000 miles worth). I would never for a second think about towing a heavy and long item with the Touareg however... (case in point 38' boat I had at the time behind a Ford I had at the time):
If you read the many posts, what you'll find is setup is key to any towing setup. 10% should be on the hitch, make sure you are within all your weight ratings on both vehicles (learn about GVWR, GCVWR, GAWR).
Don't go nuts though and make sure you use the right vehicle for the conditions.
Right tool for the right job, My touareg towed my Jayco exceptionally well and we enjoyed a number of amazing trips with it (30,000 miles worth). I would never for a second think about towing a heavy and long item with the Touareg however... (case in point 38' boat I had at the time behind a Ford I had at the time):
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I have been towing a 25ft Airstream Eddie Bauer with my 2013 Touareg and had no glaring issues. I use an "Equalizer" WDH and have a Prodigy 2 brake controller. The Airstream has a 830lb. tongue weight (spec, never measured this) hence the need for a WDH. I've been told by an extremely reliable source (VW trouble-shooting tech) that WDH's are frowned upon in Europe due to the problems they create with air suspension. I work for VW and needed a great family vehicle for skiing, mtn. biking, hiking etc. that's an amazing freeway cruiser. It's my wife's daily commutter that I periodically use for towing the Airstream. What could be better than a TDI Touareg. I traded up my 2013 Lux for a 2016 Exec as I was racking up the miles and the upgrades were excellent. As much as we loved the Lux as a vehicle we hated the key interface and it had the worst stock car audio I've ever heard. You'd find better in a base Yugo. To stay on point I live in SLC and have been as far away as Moab and Yosemite Natl' Park and the TDI did a marvelous job. Now if I was retired and camping and towing all the time I'd have a nice 1/2 ton Ford Eco-boost or GMC for the storage and stability etc.. For an SUV this size it does a hell of a job. Given the torque on the frame elements when using a WDH I was wondering if anyone has used spring chocks or replaced the stock struts with any kind of aftermarket air struts. Air-lift doesn't make bags for Touareg's as the springs are around the struts. Diesel Touareg's tow very well for their size but won't win any races. Who cares? How often do you really need a full size truck anyway unless you use one for a living?
I recommend you also look into the Blue Ox WDH system with sway control. They are easy to setup, no bolting through trailer frame or welding, and easy to hook and un-hook. They have spring bars from 400 to 1000+ , depending on your tongue weight. Always get bars slightly HIGHER rated than actual tongue weight.
If the tongue weight on your trailer is 620 pounds, get 800 pound bars. If the tongue is 770 pounds, get 1000 pound bars. Don't get to close to the hairy edge on rating.
I'm not gonna tell people not to put a WDH on a Touareg - obviously lots of people have done it apparently with success. I just want to point out that there is a potential risk associated with it. And that VW is not just being obstinate when they say not to use one.
A tow hitch ball is what in structural engineering is called a pin or ball joint. It can transfer force (forward and back for pulling and stopping, up/down). It cannot transmit torques (rotational forces - trailer rotating relative to the car in both pitch and yaw, maybe a little roll).
The usual reason for designing with pin joints is that it makes the equations for static and dynamic equilibrium vastly easier to solve. Since torques aren't transmitted, the engineer only has to worry about the forces the trailer will impart on the tow vehicle. 3 variables instead of 6.
A WDH works by transmitting torques from the trailer to the tow vehicle. The tow bar system you've designed to be safe with 3 variables (the three torques being zero), is now encountering 6 variables. The results are unpredictable. It will probably be safe - pin joint designs generally have to be beefier because they're not using the material's strength against torque. This results in the torque at a pin being converted into lateral forces, and your structural members have to be designed bigger to withstand those higher forces compared to a rigid design. But you could encounter a corner case where this isn't so, and the structure will fail due to being subjected to torques which it was never designed to withstand.
This is what caused the Kansas City walkway collapse in 1981. The construction crew couldn't get the walkways to line up right, so they converted what was supposed to be a straight cable supporting all walkways (only forces up/down along the length of the cable), into offset cables. That introduced a torque into a structural member which was never designed to withstand torque, causing it to fail and the walkway to collapse, killing 114 people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse
The tow bar on the Touareg is simply bolted on with 8 bolts. When you use a WDH, the entirety of any torque they impart has to be transmitted through nothing but those bolts. It's like holding a baseball bat by only its very end, and trying to swing it. There's a greater chance that you're going to break your hand (bolt) or the end off the bat (frame the bolt screws into) compared to if you added a second hand further up the bat.
Again, I'm not saying A WDH won't work. Just that you're taking on an unknown risk by using one. If you're going to put a WDH and/or anti-sway system on a Treg, I would highly recommend considering models which add reinforcement structures attached directly to the vehicle frame, and not just to the tow bar. Or have a mechanic weld on a reinforcement bar from the hitch receiver to the car frame. That will help the hitch transmit torque to the frame, alleviating much of the torque-induced stress on the attachment bolts. It acts like putting a second hand further up the bat.
http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f...forums/f66/maxing-out-tow-capacity-with-travel-trailer-134082-6.html#post757681
A tow hitch ball is what in structural engineering is called a pin or ball joint. It can transfer force (forward and back for pulling and stopping, up/down). It cannot transmit torques (rotational forces - trailer rotating relative to the car in both pitch and yaw, maybe a little roll).
The usual reason for designing with pin joints is that it makes the equations for static and dynamic equilibrium vastly easier to solve. Since torques aren't transmitted, the engineer only has to worry about the forces the trailer will impart on the tow vehicle. 3 variables instead of 6.
A WDH works by transmitting torques from the trailer to the tow vehicle. The tow bar system you've designed to be safe with 3 variables (the three torques being zero), is now encountering 6 variables. The results are unpredictable. It will probably be safe - pin joint designs generally have to be beefier because they're not using the material's strength against torque. This results in the torque at a pin being converted into lateral forces, and your structural members have to be designed bigger to withstand those higher forces compared to a rigid design. But you could encounter a corner case where this isn't so, and the structure will fail due to being subjected to torques which it was never designed to withstand.
This is what caused the Kansas City walkway collapse in 1981. The construction crew couldn't get the walkways to line up right, so they converted what was supposed to be a straight cable supporting all walkways (only forces up/down along the length of the cable), into offset cables. That introduced a torque into a structural member which was never designed to withstand torque, causing it to fail and the walkway to collapse, killing 114 people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse
The tow bar on the Touareg is simply bolted on with 8 bolts. When you use a WDH, the entirety of any torque they impart has to be transmitted through nothing but those bolts. It's like holding a baseball bat by only its very end, and trying to swing it. There's a greater chance that you're going to break your hand (bolt) or the end off the bat (frame the bolt screws into) compared to if you added a second hand further up the bat.
Again, I'm not saying A WDH won't work. Just that you're taking on an unknown risk by using one. If you're going to put a WDH and/or anti-sway system on a Treg, I would highly recommend considering models which add reinforcement structures attached directly to the vehicle frame, and not just to the tow bar. Or have a mechanic weld on a reinforcement bar from the hitch receiver to the car frame. That will help the hitch transmit torque to the frame, alleviating much of the torque-induced stress on the attachment bolts. It acts like putting a second hand further up the bat.
http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f...forums/f66/maxing-out-tow-capacity-with-travel-trailer-134082-6.html#post757681
Another factor to consider in the Treg. It is not suitable for towing at the edge of it’s rating. I should qualify this - not “legally” aka insurance suitable. “Capable” with the TDI - more than capable - the TDI is a beast.
The WDH will transfer “payload” to the Treg. The Treg - especially those with a sunroof - does not have a lot of head room in this respect. (The sunroof wipes approx 100kg from the rated payload). Do the math, put the maximum on the tow ball, add in a full tank of fuel, add a couple of people and luggage, add a full size spare wheel (illegal over here to use a space saver when towing) and you are out of payload - this with nothing else in the car camping stuff etc and no kids in the back seat and no heavy adults either.
If I considering a Treg for towing do NOT option or buy one with the sunroof. I wish I had done the math before selecting this option.
Another cause for concern re sunroof. The max load on the roof is approx 100kg. The sun roof is an option (not included in the tare) - thus once you add the sunroof, you have zero payload capacity on the roof. So carrying spare tyres on the roof is a no no if you have a sunroof.
Tow considerably under the maximum rating and many issues disappear (some do not). So the 3500kg / 280 kg rating has a lot of caveats on it.
With respect to Air suspension - one issue is how do you set the WDH up? This has been discussed in the Aussie forum and the best method of adjustment I have heard is that you must put the car in jacking mode, adjust the WDH to level the car then turn off jacking mode. Adjusting the WDH with air suspension active means unknown forces are transmitted to the car as the car will always be level and adjustments to the WDH are basically pure guesswork.
The WDH will transfer “payload” to the Treg. The Treg - especially those with a sunroof - does not have a lot of head room in this respect. (The sunroof wipes approx 100kg from the rated payload). Do the math, put the maximum on the tow ball, add in a full tank of fuel, add a couple of people and luggage, add a full size spare wheel (illegal over here to use a space saver when towing) and you are out of payload - this with nothing else in the car camping stuff etc and no kids in the back seat and no heavy adults either.
If I considering a Treg for towing do NOT option or buy one with the sunroof. I wish I had done the math before selecting this option.
Another cause for concern re sunroof. The max load on the roof is approx 100kg. The sun roof is an option (not included in the tare) - thus once you add the sunroof, you have zero payload capacity on the roof. So carrying spare tyres on the roof is a no no if you have a sunroof.
Tow considerably under the maximum rating and many issues disappear (some do not). So the 3500kg / 280 kg rating has a lot of caveats on it.
With respect to Air suspension - one issue is how do you set the WDH up? This has been discussed in the Aussie forum and the best method of adjustment I have heard is that you must put the car in jacking mode, adjust the WDH to level the car then turn off jacking mode. Adjusting the WDH with air suspension active means unknown forces are transmitted to the car as the car will always be level and adjustments to the WDH are basically pure guesswork.
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Yet another segment of this discussion is that it's also easy to over load your rear axel when loading (especially if you do not use WD).
Re WD: The static load transfer is only about 100 lbs with WD, however this percentage during real time driving and braking is much greater. Indeed the dynamic load transfer is sufficient to keep the rear axel from sagging enough to take weight off the front axel. I can really feel the difference turning during braking with or without WD because of this.
Air suspension doesn't transfer weight but looks good when towing (doesn't allow for sag). To be blunt: I do not understand how air plus WD works...if it is good, bad, or does nothing. That said, I don't think it can react fast enough to sudden load changes...where WD really shines... too many variables for my brain here with the air plus WD combination.
Here are a few of my favorite Treg pictures. This poor thing was driven off a cliff and spent weeks if not months in the ocean being beaten against the rocks before it was fished out as part of a murder suicide investigation. Note that the floor of the Treg is still completely straight and that the aftermarket hitch is still bolted tight. To me this picture is a visual of how strong the unibody plus frame are together such as is the case of the Treg with the frame rails being sandwiched between a top and bottom floor plate. I know this appears to have little to do with towing, but this is what you are fastening on to when you hitch up...it is my opinion the thing can easily take dynamic forces from WD.
Re WD: The static load transfer is only about 100 lbs with WD, however this percentage during real time driving and braking is much greater. Indeed the dynamic load transfer is sufficient to keep the rear axel from sagging enough to take weight off the front axel. I can really feel the difference turning during braking with or without WD because of this.
Air suspension doesn't transfer weight but looks good when towing (doesn't allow for sag). To be blunt: I do not understand how air plus WD works...if it is good, bad, or does nothing. That said, I don't think it can react fast enough to sudden load changes...where WD really shines... too many variables for my brain here with the air plus WD combination.
Here are a few of my favorite Treg pictures. This poor thing was driven off a cliff and spent weeks if not months in the ocean being beaten against the rocks before it was fished out as part of a murder suicide investigation. Note that the floor of the Treg is still completely straight and that the aftermarket hitch is still bolted tight. To me this picture is a visual of how strong the unibody plus frame are together such as is the case of the Treg with the frame rails being sandwiched between a top and bottom floor plate. I know this appears to have little to do with towing, but this is what you are fastening on to when you hitch up...it is my opinion the thing can easily take dynamic forces from WD.
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We have an 04 Touareg V8 (only 60,000 miles as it was bought as our dedicated tow vehicle) with air suspension, the factory installed hitch with factory ball mount, and factory 2" ball (the ball capable of up to 8000 lbs). I am original owner that purchased in April of 2004 because of the towing capacity of 7700lbs. So about a month after purchase our family decided to purchase a brand new hybrid camping trailer (04 Aerolite Cub with a gvwr of 4840 and dry hitch 360lbs, travel length 22'). Our Touareg pulled that trailer awesome only using the factory hitch, no weight distribution hitch needed, no sway when pulling, it was awesome. Well we just sold that trailer and have decided to purchase a 2018 Coachmen Catalina Legacy Edition 243RBS travel trailer. This new trailer info is: UVW is 5746, carrying capacity 1838, gvwr 7600, hitch weight 687, exterior length is 27'11" from back bumper to front tongue coupler) with a needed 2-5/16" ball.
After reading multiple and I mean 6 hours+ worth of club touareg posts, I would like your input if you think we really need a weight distribution hitch for this trailer. I believe I would be able to change out the current ball from the factory 2" to the new size of 2-5/16" as it appears the shank diameter on the factory one is 1-1/4" and shank length is about 3" and the new ball would have 10,000 lbs (or 12,000 lbs capacity which would be overkill) and would never use that much anyway. The ball hitch also has the sticker max trailer weight 7700lbs & max tongue weight 616lbs but I read that tongue was 8% and if I called VW a new sticker with max tongue weight of 770lbs would be sent.
I went to my local dealership today and two of the dealer employees said I should have a weight distribution hitch and they were surprised we didn't use one on our travel trailer already and advised Equalizer with 10,000lb capacity. We read the manual and it did state NOT to use weight distribution as it would void any warranty, so we never did. But the truck is now going on 14 years old - so no warranty left anyways.
After reading multiple and I mean 6 hours+ worth of club touareg posts, I would like your input if you think we really need a weight distribution hitch for this trailer. I believe I would be able to change out the current ball from the factory 2" to the new size of 2-5/16" as it appears the shank diameter on the factory one is 1-1/4" and shank length is about 3" and the new ball would have 10,000 lbs (or 12,000 lbs capacity which would be overkill) and would never use that much anyway. The ball hitch also has the sticker max trailer weight 7700lbs & max tongue weight 616lbs but I read that tongue was 8% and if I called VW a new sticker with max tongue weight of 770lbs would be sent.
I went to my local dealership today and two of the dealer employees said I should have a weight distribution hitch and they were surprised we didn't use one on our travel trailer already and advised Equalizer with 10,000lb capacity. We read the manual and it did state NOT to use weight distribution as it would void any warranty, so we never did. But the truck is now going on 14 years old - so no warranty left anyways.
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Is that sway control necessary?
What kind or brake controller do you use?
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With the WDH the tongue rating goes to 1100 lbs.
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It has been a while since I have been on this thread, yes I absolutely use swap control (single friction I think Reese) the brake controller is a Prodigy P2 dealer installed way back in the day. Both my Tregs are running P2s. Seem to work pretty good...
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