I'm confused. You start out in the present tense like you are looking for a suggestion on which car to buy. Then you say "the one I have".

Did you buy the 2004 Touareg?

If so, why is it worth only $3000?

What particular electrical problems require repairs?

 

unless it has $14k or so in electrical repairs, I would discount everything the dealer told you.


more information on what vehicle you bought and specifics on what problems you are encountering please

 

Sorry I was venting a bit and lost sight of the reason I posted. I own a 2004 V8, and the dealership wants around $4000 to replace the passenger side door handle electronic module and the Access/Start Control module in (or on) the steering column. There's another $1700 or so for brakes, and around $1500 for the tire pressure monitoring system. I asked them for a trade in value for the car I still owe $14K for (bought it a year ago), and they offered me $3K. I'm going to try and figure out where this real mystery short is (they suggested that there's a "direct" short in the passenger side door which tells me they either don't know what they're talking about or don't think I know anything about electronics since a "direct" short would blow a fuse or burn something out (maybe I should show them what happens when you put a wrench across the battery terminals). At any rate, I think this has been going on for a long time. There have been 3 batteries in the car in the year we've had it, but it's not a consistent problem. The 2nd battery I put in it (the dealership that sold it put the first one in before we left the lot) lasted 8 months without a hint of a starting problem, but as soon as it turned cold, the car wouldn't start and I put the 3rd battery in it. After 3 months, it's not starting again and there have been a couple of occasions where it has dropped to 7V overnight. I had sears check the battery about 2 weeks ago and they said the battery is fine, but there must be a short in the system somewhere. Today, I've been plotting the voltage which I started reading at 11.86 (no I didn't charge it up completely first), and in two hours it has dropped to 11.84. This is not great, but it's not something that would drop the battery to 7V in 12 hours. I want to try and pull the fuse to the passenger side door control module (I've got a diagram that suggests the fuse is labeled SC34 rated at 25A) and measure the current to see if that's actually where the current is going, but I have yet to find the fuse box. Thanks for any help, and sorry for venting on the forum.

 

others will chimp in here. I think there was a battery cable issue that with a low battery could cause a host of electrical issues and/or something is draining the battery

Bump

 

Overnight (almost 12 hours), the battery voltage dropped from 11.84 to 11.24. I found 800mA going through SC32 (passenger side dash fuse block) while the car is parked, no key, both front doors open and hood up. This fuse looks to supply the Door control module on both the passenger side and the rear, right (which I'm assuming is also the passenger side). 800mA is substantial, but I don't know if it is only because the door is open (can't easily measure with the door closed), and I also don't know what the dV/dt should be on the battery at 800mA. My next step may be to break the battery+ line and measure the overall battery current which should be less than the 10A my meter can measure in line while it's not running. Anyone know the function of the Door Control Module? Thanks in advance.

 

Hi, my 2004 V8 had the same problem and the vw dealer service advisor immediately suggested that I leave the car while they ordered, then changed the rear door handle - passenger side. I had an extended warrantee policy, so no idea for cost. All I can say is they know of the problem and the fix.

 

Thanks Danville, it seems this keeps coming back to the door handle. I've opened the battery connection and inserted my meter in series, and I'm a little surprised by what I'm seeing. The current eventually drops to sometimes 130mA, and even as low as 80mA with the SC32 fuse in place. So, I'm guessing that while I'm measuring the current in SC32 at 800mA, the door is open and there is something drawing current due to the door being open (would have expected the light in the door, but it's not on at the time). When I close the door and see less than 800mA being pulled from the battery, it's a safe bet that this load has been removed. So, next question is what is the typical current pulled from the battery in the off state. It seems to hover around 250mA until I lock it, then drops to sometimes 130mA, and sometimes 80mA. I would expect some trickle current in the off state, but I'm not sure how much. My guess is that 80mA even for several days wouldn't discharge a good battery. Anyone have knowledge of the off state current?

 

Ok, you don't seem to mind working on things yourself. First off if you plan to keep this you need to invest in a VAG Com cable and VCDS software to more easily track down stuff like this. www.ross-tech.com is the site for that.

No way brakes cost that much if you can and feel confident doing it yourself. We have a member here that sells kits with everything you need to do the job yourself. Sticky post in the classifieds section on that matter.

If you get the above cable I referred to you can save yourself a lot of hassle and just turn the TPMS off and never worry about it again. It was not a mandatory thing in 04 so it can be shut off if you chose to do so. If not more then likely since it is an 04 all the sensors in the wheels are probably going dead or the module it's self has issues. This is something else you could check with this cable, noticing a trend here? Or if you don't want to by one see if someone in your area has one and is willing to help you out tracking down your issues.

 

Thanks Yeti, I think I'll try a couple of RS-232 multimeters storing to my pc via 802.11 first. I'll use one to record what happens to Vbat, and the other to record the current from the battery. I hope this will tell me if 1) the battery has a normal discharge curve for a given current, and 2) if there are things going on during the day/night that create large current sinks, and if so, how much and for how long. Once I get a handle on that and a paycheck or two under my belt, I'll buy one of the ross-tech systems if for no other reason than turning off the TPMS. Do you know if the ross-tech will give me data about what sub-systems are powered on, or how much current they are pulling? Does it allow you to record Vbat and store it to a file? Are there any user-collected screen shots or similar shared data on this forum to look at?

 

It will allow you to track a lot of stuff and will give you detailed info on issues you are having. You can scan every module in the vehical and it does have logging features as well. Just go to their site and check it out.

 

Hi, nice to see you working on the problems and having members help.
Regarding the TPMS sensors, I've found it useful to have them working. Your dealer is quoting a very high price for this replacement of sensors.
I went it alone: purchased 4 new TPMS sensors that fit the Touareg from Revolution Supply Co. at http:tpmsoutlet.com P/N 7L0-907-275 for $368, had them installed at a tire shop - including balance for $165, and then drove 20 miles for the system to automatcally reset. They are working fine.

 

Here's one related thread with no solid conclusions in it :

http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f62/04-treg-amp-draw-when-not-running-32550.html

I haven't purchased the ODBC system yet because I wanted to see some of the raw electrical numbers first.

Since it's the weekend, I garaged the car and installed a homemade wireless current monitor connected to my pc that will let me record and graph the current draw from the battery. I saw a lot of activity during the first 10 minutes of running the first test (up to 1.6A, down to 0.4A stopping and starting at about 10 second intervals). The battery voltage was slightly under 12V open circuit. After the 1st 10 minutes, the activity started to settle and the current went to 40mA and stayed there. I assumed that this was another case where I wasn't going to catch anything, but left it monitoring anyway. 30 minutes later, I the up/down switching of current started again, and through the course of a couple of hours, it continued to get worse. I knew that the battery would drop very low if this continued, so I put a charger on the system, but still saw the current go from -2A to -0.6A often which represents something still switching 1.4A or so at regular intervals.

This morning, my log file died so I couldn't see everything that happened from about 1AM to 8AM, but I started the test over thinking I would be able to repeat fairly easily, but now the current has dropped (gradually) to a nominal 0.04A with no hint of switching even after 3 hours. What's different? Well, two things are different : 1) last night to quickly drop the current to 0.04A, I locked the door with the keyfob, this morning, I haven't done that. 2) Last night the open circuit battery voltage was below 12, but this morning, the open circuit battery voltage is above 12.

So, I'm doing designing another test. With an open circuit voltage of 12.2, I'm going to run the test for 1 hour (it's been 30 minutes so far). Then, I'm going to turn on the lights long enough to drain the battery to 11.8V and rerun the same test. In both cases, I'll leave the doors unlocked.

My hypothesis is that the bizarre switching that occurs is a function of the battery voltage. I've read other posts about the battery "saving" feature that may be part of the problem, and I'm starting to lean in that direction. I'm thinking that once the system sees the battery voltage drop below a certain threshold, it starts taking actions to prevent the battery from discharging, but in my case (and others who seem to be having similar problems), I think the opposite is happening. Whatever those "actions" are to prevent battery discharge are perhaps creating battery discharge. I will let you know what I discover.

 

Here's a graph (I hope) :

 

First hour's test (VBat at end of test = 12.6V unloaded) :

 

While the 04s are the least reliable offering you $3k for your car is insulting. Here's what you do: 1) turn off the TPMS with Vag Com save yourself the $1500 and check your own tire pressure; 2) buy a $500 kit and do the brakes yourself. Figure out the electric issue and you';re back with your sellable resale value, which is never best trading in at the dealer. I

 

Thanks Carl - I think I'm in sync with your plan, but still in debug mode on the electronics.

This next test shows what happens when the voltage is 11.9. It seems to be starting to cycle on and off a little more, but this hasn't proven anything. I'm draining the battery a little further and we'll see what happens on the next round.

 

More inconclusive data - I decided just before bed to hit the keyfob lock. It seemed that it had run long enough with no spikes that I could conclude that nothing was going to happen on it's own at this low voltage (started at 11.9 battery no load dcv). Overnight, it started going crazy again, but it's stretching a little to say that it is completely due to the locked condition. This morning, bnldcv = 11.43. Here's the graph :

 

Another related thread possibly :
http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f43/anyone-had-a-kessy-module-rebuilt-45716.html

Pulling Kessy module fuse seems to dramatically reduce the occurence of the switching - which sounds like a relay around the steering column and corresponds to the spikes in the earlier reported graphs and the first part of this one :

 

Only downside to this is the fact that the alarm comes on and I can't get it to turn off - back to the drawing board...

 

This vehicle clearly didn't get the update that was released by VW in 2006. If so... these problems would be gone. Unfortunately if you are out if warranty... good luck getting them done without a major hit to your wallet. Before your drive yourself crazy... get your dealership to run the service history. If the update wasn't done... see if your regional rep can do anything.

 

Efn' Dealers... Its ridiculous how they charge outrageous amounts of money.
I recently went to the dealer to have my oil change and have things inspected...

They charge me about $200.00 for service and $60.00 for them to retrieve the radio code..I lost power for a split second and the radio prompted me to enter a code. Didnt know what that was so i attempted to guess the password and locked the radio after 3 tries. The dealer never gave me anything and obviously when i asked them about it...they had no clue...

Anyway, after i payed the bill, The mechanic had some recommendations for additional repairs...

$1,398.00 for brakes... This includes rotors,pads,sensors.....ect...
I almost flipped As long as you have a warranty...its going cost alot of money out of pocket...

Its alot of money to maintain...this is my first foreign car and i i can understand where you are coming from. Im into my 1st year of payment and still have 3 years to go. Hopefully you get the repairs done without getting screwed in the wallet.

 

I do have the same problem battery is six months old and died twice on me, problem found lights in doors and foot well stay on.