[nickm]

Lexus has done very well in positioning themselves...Toyota/Lexus in particular has done extremely well in positioning their Hybrid Synergy Drive. Then again its not like someone handed them the goods, the reality is I can't watch 10 minutes of TV without some "hybrid Synergy Drive" commercial coming on...I think the last time I saw a TDI commercial was...well, never.

 

[siberian]

Last commercial I saw was for the CC and before that during the world cup, they managed to show about every VW model EXCEPT the Touareg. The limited exposure in Repo Men never went anywhere...

siberian

 

[dtrax]

To contextualize this discussion a bit: VW China just announced in Germany's Financial Times that it intends to secure its 5-10 year technology and market advantage compared to Chinese car makers by broadening the range of VW cars to be developed for the Chinese market, incl. electric vehicles. The goal is to move significant R&D to China (such as building a new electric vehicle development plant) and to reduce and eventually eliminate the need to import parts from Germany into China. This will get rid off Chinese import duties and significantly reduce production costs. Vahland (VW China's boss) emphasized that China has become such a major focus for VW that VW China will increasingly seek independence from the German VW head quarters (yes, he actually said that).

Bottom line: With VW Germany focusing on Europe and South America (esp. Brazil), VW increasingly sees itself as a three continent company. And North America isn't one of them.

VW may get more Chinese independence than it bargained for since the Chinese have made a specialty of taking the R & D offered and spinning off their own production companies. Ask Boeing.

And Clint is right. Given the size of the NA market, the offerings are rather narrow, tho part of that comes from what VWDude says, in mass we don't demand enough, are uninformed, and too many refuse to flex when it comes to something like diesel.

 

[WilyB]

I still do not associate VW with a 60k automobile and I believe neither does mainstream.

That has some advantages. Some people apparently did not like my '08 Cayenne Turbo, or at least made from time to time some "envious" comments.

The Touareg offers almost the same comfort and safety as the Cayenne as a daily driver (but not the torque or hp!) but no-one notices it.

It's a stealthy car.

 

[volkswagendude]

I think North American buyers have woken up to the benefits of diesel but the stupid manufacturers just don't broaden their product base. Most 3/4tons and above are ordered with diesels heck its hard to find a gas engine in them anymore, TDIs don't stay in the lot very long, and the small run of Jeep Liberties and Grand Cherokee CRDs are held in high regards. Plus there were a lot of disappointed 1/2 ton truck buyers when the big 3 all bailed out of fielding a 1/2 ton diesel.

consumers buy only what is offered to them and there isn't that much to choose from.

I agree with what you wrote, except that is an entirely different market segment. Or maybe this is just it. VW of USA has decided to concentrate on that lower segment, and aim for it in the coming years, unlike what Dr. Piech tried to accomplish on a world wide scale(and accomplished in a couple of markets). But lets face it, a nicely equipped North American spec Touareg TDI, that has no air suspension or many goodies available like on the Rover, is still a $60000+ vehicle after all is said and done. Ok, more like a $50000 without TDI .

I mean, lets break this down. We can't say that we don't have a TDI Toaureg here in North America because we do. So there is a subcategorized rift of what we are bitching about here, as far as what us the North American members on this forum are voicing. Here is what I see.

1. 2011 Touareg with boring/non-existent equipment options list to choose from and no off road prowess, but: Most will be content with this, others will want #2 below.

2. The wish for a 2011 Touareg with more a la carte options choices, but being content with the V6 TDI option

3. A 2011 Touareg with more exciting, more powerful engine to choose from and including #2.

You are quite right, NickM. I was thinking more of R&D, investments, dealer networks, future focus... It seems that in NA they are simply selling whatever happens to sell here and building whatever happens to be cheaper to build here. Sort of a 'might as well' scenario. My point is that I don't hear of announcements in Germany that the US market really matters to them. A few years ago that was different. At that point they were still trying with the other German manufacturers to persuade Americans to go diesel. I don't see much of that energy anymore. PS: I'm no expert on this. I just happen to read German papers and watch German TV a fair bit.

Maybe they are just disgusted deep down with us???

WilyB, when I moved to Geneva, Switzerland in 1973 the exchange rate of the dollar to the swiss franc was 3.50 to a dollar. Today it's 97 centimes to a dollar. If we were even close to the original exchange rate which had been that way for near 20 years, we would be talking about a 40k V8TDI.

VWDude, as you stated VW hasn't even tried to make the investment that Lexus etc. made in dealerships (no, you don't go to the same dealer to buy your Corolla as you do to get your RX cross-over Lexus SUV), training, service and quality that Infinity, Acura, Lexus et al made over the last twenty years. I still do not associate VW with a 60k automobile and I believe neither does mainstream. Lastly the absolutely crappy fuel quality (we can't even get anything over 90 octane) in both diesel and premium plus the cost of the TDI engine vs it's actual mpg difference and price makes it unpalatable.

Yes the LR looks great, the a la carte is something sorely lacking from most builders. You need to buy 3 grand of useless stuff to get a 400 dollar item you want. But having worked on piles of British cars in the 70s (Hillman Imp, MGs, MG Midgets, Triumphs etc.) they were just a pile of crap. And I guess as I went off Mopar, I just can't see myself getting back into that.

Our hope perhaps is that someone from VW is following this and can make a case. In the meantime, maybe someone who's closer to buying or interested could call an importer and/or the NHTSB and get the scoop about bringing in a V8 TDI.

siberian

On the dollar thing, the CDN dollar was worth more than the USD back in this time with Pierre Trudeau at the helm. Remember those days? Nixon loathing Trudeau?
That said, I try to see it as equal for equal in hypothetical sense. Ironically, the world will see a common currency soon enough, to solve these man made issues but I digress..

I for one, do see VW as a $60000 vehicle. Perhaps I was willing to give that Piech dude a chance, and did. As I said, I don't believe in emblem snob appeal, and many over in Europe and other global markets don't either. Actually, the VW emblem does have a certain "appeal" of higher class in those other markets. BMW 7 series DIESELS sold over there also, and that sais a lot about the mind set over there. Now my question is, are these people "smarter" than most of society here, or is it entirely VW OF USA fault? I mean, let's not forget, NickM just mentioned that BMW diesel SUV sales are not doing that great on this side. Now I don't know if this is true, but assuming that it is, it is quite significant. I think we have other issues here .

As for Land Rover being "crap", I'm sure many of them Lexus/Yota folk can come on here and say the same thing and blast the egg verbally. But what do they know right? I think the Range Rover is not what it was, as the same can be said for many 2004 eggs on this board.

Last but not least, yes coming back to the topic at hand, lets get this V8 TDI on this side pronto, and with air please!

 

[siberian]

What I said was that folks associate 80k or 120k bucks with a PORSCHE (whether they can buy it or not). They do NOT associate 70k with a VW and neither would anyone buying a Toyota. Buying a Lexus or Infinity or Acura now that's a whole different ballgame - category, class, service, MTBFs... But you do NOT go to a Toyota dealer to buy a Lexus. You go to a LEXUS dealer. Different showroom, class etc. Top ratings year after year that took years and millions to pass across that you're not really buying a Toyota, but a much better one (if that's possible )

Fuel being what it is and the absolutely overpriced engine that VW charges for a TDI, coupled with a weak dollar, I can see why very few people would be interested in a "people's car" at 90k dollars.

But the first step is education. Not only of the masses, but of the service folks etc. And that hasn't happened by a long shot.

siberian

 

[volkswagendude]

..... Buying a Lexus or Infinity or Acura now that's a whole different ballgame - category, class, service, MTBFs... But you do NOT go to a Toyota dealer to buy a Lexus. You go to a LEXUS dealer. Different showroom, class etc. Top ratings year after year that took years and millions to pass across that you're not really buying a Toyota, but a much better one (if that's possible )

siberian

I would very much like to agree with this, the separate roofs thing, except when one starts to ponder how Ford has managed to sell its Lincoln luxury brand successfully under the same roof as an Escort?? :-k

 

[siberian]

Or GM with Cadillac? But the bottom line is, Lexus etc is successful because they invested in technology, people and SERVICE and their cars consistently rank up there in customer satisfaction..

siberian

 

[ÜBERV10]

I owned a 2007 Range Rover S/C, wasn't that great, pretty unreliable, used more gas than my Cayenne (Turbo) and service was abysmal... So, "been there done that" regarding those. I'm seriously hoping something spectacular happens in the realm of Uber SUVs, cause right now, there is not a single one (in our market) that I'm interested in... New or used!

 

[nickm]

Just a random thought...I'm wondering why VW just doesn't allow a la carte prepaid orders. If I want something specific (with specific optons) and I'm willing to pay in advance why wouldn't VW just assemble it on the line? Heck even Ford lets you do this with their trucks and they build a million of the damn things a year.

UBER V10 I'm with you. While looking at a replacement vehicle for my wife she asked me what I'd want next. I said another V10 TDI

 

[wensteph]

Just a random thought...I'm wondering why VW just doesn't allow a la carte prepaid orders. If I want something specific (with specific optons) and I'm willing to pay in advance why wouldn't VW just assemble it on the line? Heck even Ford lets you do this with their trucks and they build a million of the damn things a year.

They won't even do it on something simple like interior colors. When I ordered mine I called VWoA to see if I could get the expresso interior color which is available in the UK. Short answer was no. Sounds like it should be easy since the factory is used to laundry list options on the European cars. Maybe they think if they gave an inch on interior color they'd have to give a mile on the off road stuff.

 

[nickm]

They won't even do it on something simple like interior colors. When I ordered mine I called VWoA to see if I could get the expresso interior color which is available in the UK. Short answer was no. Sounds like it should be easy since the factory is used to laundry list options on the European cars. Maybe they think if they gave an inch on interior color they'd have to give a mile on the off road stuff.

Interesting...I suppose I understand it for the legal stuff (ie: you can't get a V8TDI because its not certified for sale), but leather color? Why the heck not?...anyways, maybe VW just isn't interested in that market or maybe people who get to that point just order through BMW (they allow individual orders)

 

[volkswagendude]

I owned a 2007 Range Rover S/C, wasn't that great, pretty unreliable, used more gas than my Cayenne (Turbo) and service was abysmal... So, "been there done that" regarding those. I'm seriously hoping something spectacular happens in the realm of Uber SUVs, cause right now, there is not a single one (in our market) that I'm interested in... New or used!

I'm glad someone chimed in on this one, because I was getting a
Land Rover SC "itch" these last few days. Glad you talked me out of it. I think.

Just a random thought...I'm wondering why VW just doesn't allow a la carte prepaid orders. If I want something specific (with specific optons) and I'm willing to pay in advance why wouldn't VW just assemble it on the line? Heck even Ford lets you do this with their trucks and they build a million of the damn things a year.

UBER V10 I'm with you. While looking at a replacement vehicle for my wife she asked me what I'd want next. I said another V10 TDI

Nick, when I was shopping around for a new Passat TDI back in late 2005(I lived 100km away from work one-way, so this car made sense to me BTW!), there were two options that I was only interested in, leather and 16" mags, but unfortunately, the dealers were including other things with that package including one option that I NEVER LIKED, and that would be sunroof. I don't like sunroof on cars for three reasons. They take away headroom(I'm tall), they are prone to leak related problems, and last but not least, I hardly ever use them since I am 100% an air conditioning type of guy. Sooooo, after asking two different dealers if I could have a Passat with leather mags and no NO sunroof, they said no sir. No listen to this part. I could have sworn that in the brochure of list of options(NOT the internet site)I noticed sunroof as stand alone option, although the dealers denied this as being impossible. So I called VW of Canada, and the lady on the phone said "sir you can order your Passat without sunroof....and really almost how you want it.." This time, with new arsenal at hand, I went to a third and last VW dealership. I immediately told them the story ofthe last two dealerships denying me the NO SUNROOF OPTION, and right away, they sat down with me, and built me the Passat TDI GLS that I wanted.
Sure enough, 3 weeks later, mine arrived. I literally must have the only GLS TDI, leather equipped, with 16 inch mags(even those are rare 5 spoke M5 style ones) Passat in the world, in fact, a few on TDI clubs or Passatworld.com accused me of mistaking my Passat for a GL model, and my leather for leatherette, but I proved my point with pics anyways, and the 'Dude is not an idiot on these matters anyways . Oh yes, there was one stand alone option that I forgot to add to my Passat, that has been eating away at me for the last five years and that was ESP for a mere $200 extra!!!!](*,) I blame the third dealer for that one, as I didn't know it existed(at the time), only to find out when I went home later that night to review my purchase. They really should have brought it up under their own initiative but anyways.... Point to this boring story I just wrote is that once upon a time, not too long ago, they(VW) were willing to be flex on the options. I guess this really changed to the dealers advantage literally the year after I bought my Passat in late 2005.

---------------------------

With UBERV10 having just talked me out of the Rover, my next or even second Touareg will be a fully equipped late model V10TDI by the looks of things, unless something is figured out on bringing over V8 TDI in the next two to four years.

 

[nickm]

With UBERV10 having just talked me out of the Rover, my next or even second Touareg will be a fully equipped late model V10TDI by the looks of things, unless something is figured out on bringing over V8 TDI in the next two to four years.

This is where I'm at too...If I can find an '08 V10 TDI I'm buying it. I love my '04 but I just want to buy something and forget about vehicles for 4 years or so...

 

[ÜBERV10]

This is where I'm at too...If I can find an '08 V10 TDI I'm buying it. I love my '04 but I just want to buy something and forget about vehicles for 4 years or so...

That's about where I'm at. My thing is though I plan to keep my current V10 for at least another 3 years, at which time I'll look for the replacement; the issue is that were will all the low miles '08s be then? I have a feeling it'll be tough to find one...

 

[volkswagendude]

For us Canadians, I'm trying to find the right department to email for information to import the T3 V8 TDI. I'll report back....

 

[Franken]

When I thought to bring my Motorcycle from Germany to the US, I did not further proceed with it with the caution % you have to pay. You get back when the bike would be then US approved. Not sure how it works with a car though.

 

[WilyB]

Well if you want a top of the line 4x4, wait until the 2011 Geneva car show in early March for the launch of the new Ferrari Shooting Break. I don't think they will make a diesel option, but there may be an hybrid power train.

Interesting feature, the 4x4 turns into a 4x2 at speed over 87 mph.

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/5951/c3media991171immaginefg.jpg

 

[copaz]

For those who are comparing Touareg prices in Germany and the US, here's something to consider: Within the Euro zone car price differentials are quite considerable. Here are the two ends of the spectrum: Germany charges about 6% more for the same German car than the Euro zone average. Malta, on the other hand, charges about 6% less than average for the same car. Add those two and you have a significant difference. As it happens, for VW the differentials are creeping up steadily year by year at a rate of about .5% compared to Euro zone average. In any case, I know Germans who buy their cars elsewhere in Europe. And this is why.

I researched this because, being German myself, I once thought about importing a car to the US. I quickly decided that I would have to do this either from Malta or Greece (5.4% down on Euro zone average) - not feasible. It would actually make more sense to ship German cars back to Germany from the US.

PS: The info above is available in EU reports by the commission for markets and competition.

 

[siberian]

Just out of interest, why wasn't it feasible to ship from Malta?

siberian