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Going to the Snow

7.4K views 24 replies 14 participants last post by  roalco  
#1 ·
Hi Guys,

We are heading down to the snow in a couple of weeks and I had a few questions before we head off:

1. Tyres - In the middle groove I measured 6mm from the top of the tread to the bottom of the groove - is this ok?
2. Snow chains - I know 4WD cars are not required to have chains but would anyone recommend buying some in any case?
3. Washer Fluid - I know the VW washer fluid is good for minus 70c but does anyone know what concentration I should use?
4. Handbrake - I have read some driving guides and they recommend not engaging the handbrake whilst parked in subzero areas - can anyone offer anything contrary to this?

The car had its 15k service in March so I guess everything else is in order. In so far as necessary items to take in the car I have: plastic scraper, warm clothes and food and drink in case of delays.

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated!
 
#2 ·
1. Your tyre tread is just fine with 6mm.
2. Please note snow chains won't fit on 20" wheels according to your owners manual.
3. The VW washer fluid has the mix on the bottle, but I would not worry too much. It will only get to about -5c at the most.
4. Your handbrake is electronic not a manual cable. Personal choice but if you don't use the handbrake than use wheel chocks.

Take a plastic ground sheet/tarp, a small shovel and an orange reflector vest just in case you need to stop on the side of the road and do things.
 
#3 ·
Make sure to use winter diesel before heading up the mountain. Normal diesel has a tendency to gel in sub-zero temps. Not that common down-under, I know that the BP in Bright has the winter stuff, not sure about the other snow fields.
 
#4 ·
You are very optimistic!

Are you going to a NSW ski field or Victoria - NSW you don't need chains and Victoria you must carry chains no matter what.

I have never used chains since 2001 in the Subaru last Touareg and this Touareg. Last year we were in a very bad snow storm at Perisher with ice on the road all the way to Berridale, very bad conditions with several cars on their roofs in ditches. The Touareg handled it in its stride albeit it was very tough going with white knuckles, if I had the snow chains in the car I probably would have put them on, well maybe not in the cold:)

Using washer fluid mine has never frozen and I have never had a problem with the handbrake don't forget VW do pretty intense testing in very cold climates
 
#5 ·
Yep, top up your diesel near the snowfields for best chance if winterised diesel or use an additive line ChemTech which is meant to reduce gelling amongst other things. Don't be too cocky about 4WD on icey roads, rubber and wet ice never give you much grip. Very disconcerting having gravity and momentum take the car in a totally different direction to the one you want. It's fine if there is some snow on it and it is amazing where you can go even with a 2wd car in the right conditions. As Flipper says, washer fluid rates are on the bottle and be aware, dealers tend to use far less than suggested. Cable or electric handbrake all still work with brake shoes on brake drums and that is the part that tends to freeze up if they get wet and then really cold. Have fun anyway, John
 
#6 ·
Water shedding tyres like Toyo proxes with the long endless center grove and uni directional vee patterns are terrible in the snow. We used to get snow for up to 3 month of the year where we used to live. An all weather tyre is much better in the snow, and an all terrain is even better than the all weather. ABS can be a nightmare as it will not let the wheel lock and sometimes it is better to lock and build up a wedge of snow in front of the tyre to stop you on a steep hill. ABS will let you roll all the way to the bottom with no option of stopping. (Survived a horror experience with this--the car would not stop--ABS would not allow it The car rolled out, the brake pedal just juddered (ABS pump) no matter how lightly I pressed the pedal and I rolled straight out of a tee junction into heavy traffic and by amazing luck I ended in a 20' gap between a moving bus and a truck).
EBD (Electronic brake force distribution) is good in that it will apply a single brake to keep you pointing in the right direction. (Your brakes will be boiling when you get to your destination despite you hardly pressing the pedal). The electronics directing the drive to the wheel it is needed will take care of up hills, the Touareg is awesome at climbing and if needed low ratio and hill descent takes care of down hill sections. Slow & steady usually ensures you make it there safe. Remember the Touareg is a 2+ ton vehicle and momentum is the killer.

Happy hols and be safe :)

Oh and plenty of screen wash--the bottle would
1) Cost a fortune to replace if it split.
2) be a job that you shouldn't need to do if you use screen wash &
3) the water lines can split in the roof lining, boot, bonnet if they freeze--don't forget to flush them of pure water making sure screen wash is right through them.
 
#7 ·
Laggyband
I believe that from the T2 model the ABS has been tweaked for braking on loose surfaces such as gravel in order to build up the hump in front of the wheels, this would probably also work on snow. The brochure for the 2010 made mention of improved stopping distances on loose surfaces citing the allowance of a little skid to build up a wave in front of the wheel.
 
#10 ·
Laggyband
I believe that from the T2 model the ABS has been tweaked for braking on loose surfaces such as gravel in order to build up the hump in front of the wheels, this would probably also work on snow. The brochure for the 2010 made mention of improved stopping distances on loose surfaces citing the allowance of a little skid to build up a wave in front of the wheel.
That's good, I have not had to use them I these conditions yet. I have noticed on gravel it will lock slightly and release where my ABS on my Audi S2 would not let it happen. ABS in the rain was awesome, in the dry was overbearing, in the snow it was ok, on ice/compacted snow it was a nightmare.
 
#8 ·
rather be over prepared.

Make sure you will have communication via phone or satphone
Take lots of water and some energy bars in case you need to wait out a storm or wait for rescue
Take extra warm clothes and blankets

Check your insurance is in order
 
#12 ·
Gents - thanks for all of the tips. Apologies I didn't reply earlier but I'd been busy renovating a bathroom and then I spent the last week in the snow ... which brings me to my experience with:

1. Winter Diesel - on leaving Sydney I filled up a full tank which I estimated would leave me half a tank by Jindabyne where I filled the empty half with winter diesel. Well, this morning that simply wasn't enough, our car just would not start. I poured buckets and buckets of hot water on the fuel lines, the fuel filter and all to no avail. I tried so many times that the starter drained the battery. Thankfully, today was a sunny day and the snow plow was about tow my car from the shade into the sun (where it sat from about 10am to 1pm). The car only started after I got on all fours and slung hot water under the car (over the muffler and generally anywhere I could get the hot water). I left it to idle for about 30 minutes before setting off at 1.30pm.

2. Washer Fluid - despite mixing 1 part concentrate to 2 parts water with should've been good to -35 degrees (Volkswagen Windscreen Clear Concentrate | my-gti.com) it still took some 2.5 hours of driving until the lines unfroze. To be fair, when I filled the tank it wasn't completely empty and the last time it was topped was by VW service in April.

Anyways, without whingeing, this was my experience so if anyone is heading down to the alps soon then please learn from my mistakes as it is pretty darn cold up in the mountains at the moment! I was lucky with the snow plough tow, the sun and the chaps who worked in the hotel car park keeping an eye on things and tossing the occasional bucket of hot water on the treg while we got our last few turns in!
 
#14 ·
Diesel won't freeze at that temp, but if it's high in paraffin, that can solidify into tiny little wax needle-like crystals, which will plug your fuel filter, starving your HPFP.
 
#15 ·
BOZDEE...mind telling who is your diesel provider (Shell, Caltex, BP..) in Sydney as I do suspect parafinn too.

From Wiki...Ordinarily, Australian automotive diesel fuels on average have a cold filter plugging point value that is about 2 °C below the cloud point.
 
#16 ·
2. Washer Fluid - despite mixing 1 part concentrate to 2 parts water with should've been good to -35 degrees (Volkswagen Windscreen Clear Concentrate | my-gti.com) it still took some 2.5 hours of driving until the lines unfroze. To be fair, when I filled the tank it wasn't completely empty and the last time it was topped was by VW service in April.

Did you use the washers after you topped up the washers, The lines would be full of the old stuff.
 
#17 ·
Paul - I'm not 100% sure but the more buckets of hot water I chucked everywhere the better it all got. After I slung the water over the rear tyres, under the car and on the exhaust was when I could finally hold idle.

Roalco - I kept on pouring hot water over the fuel filter and this didn't do as much as the water under the car did - not to say that you're incorrect though.

Vinniv - I usually fill up at Shell down the road from my house. When I filled the winter diesel in Jindabyne it was also at the Shell on Kosciuszko Rd.

Ewhen - I think you may be spot on, I do remember topping the reservoir but not actually running it through the lines because I'd just washed the car!

So how do I safeguard against the diesel issue in the future? Drive down with less in the tank and fill up in Cooma (further from the snow) to allow the diesel to mix in better?
 
#18 ·
"So how do I safeguard against the diesel issue in the future? Drive down with less in the tank and fill up in Cooma (further from the snow) to allow the diesel to mix in better?"
Jinders should be ample mixing time to the snow but as I stated earlier try an additive like Chem Tech or similar as they usually contain some sort of anti gelling ability plus the bonus of cleaning up your fuel system generally. x 2 for Ewhen about the washers especially the rear one which will take a lot longer to flush. John
 
#19 ·
Always best to read, and more importantly understand, the information that is in the owners manual under the winter driving/snow chain/winter tyre section


If you have had a traction problem when driving up to, or more importantly down from, your lodge or apartment at your resort or have had a driving safety issue on mountain roads it will be because these type of tyres are fitted to your vehicle. Due to their width, rubber compound and tread pattern, high performance summer tyres provide unacceptable grip for low temperature snow driving.

Snow Tyres » About
Snow Chains | Roof Carrier Systems

High performance, high speed rated tyres and cold winter alpine temperatures, snow and icy roads are NOT compatible.

Most 2WD & an increasing number of AWD vehicles are supplied with high performance summer tyres that are not fitted with appropriate tyres for snow season driving. High performance speed rated tyres, V (240km/h), W (270km/h) and Y (300 km/h) were never designed by the tyre maker to be driven in low ambient temperatures or in snow and icy conditions.

It is also important to note that the recent advancements in electronic driver aids, such as ABS, ESC and traction control do not provide more traction. These electronic aids only prevent drivers from over braking or overpowering the available traction of their tyres. The only thing the driver can do to increase traction, to actually get more grip and safer control, is to install winter/snow tyres.

The safest and most correct alternative is to have a second set of wheels fitted with winter tyres that are identified with the ‘snow-flake on the mountain peak’ symbol. The winter wheel set will use a narrower tyre on a smaller diameter wheel which will be approved to have snow chains fitted.

The safety issues that occur during extreme weather conditions, are compounded not only on the road conditions but also by the effect of the cold weather on vehicle tyres. The tread compound of high performance summer tyres that are fitted, becomes like "hard plastic" at below 7° thereby losing the flexibility needed to build up sufficient grip for braking, for starting traction and for cornering. The real key to winter tyre performance is, ironically, not the traction to accelerate, even though grip to drive through deep snow may be the first thing we think about with snow tyres. Instead, the real key is braking performance. The ability to stop is actually more important than the ability to go, and it is under these “exit event” conditions that winter/snow tyres excel.

Snow chains fitted to summer tyres on the front wheels will increase traction for take off and driving but can not assist with lateral stability.
Because of the inadequate grip on the rear tyres the vehicle will oversteer and under braking the ABS system will be activated, further increasing the stopping distance. The problems are always worse when driving down hill than up hill.

Snow chains fitted to summer tyres on the rear wheels will increase traction for take off and driving but can not assist with steering or lateral stability. Because of inadequate grip on the front tyres the vehicle will not 'turn in', it will understeer and under braking the ABS system will be activated, further increasing the stopping distance. Again the problems are always worse when driving down hill than up hill.
 
#20 ·
Totally agree. Old X3 had Nokian WRG2 fitted. Wonderful in the snow.
I now have fleabay sourced 17 inch rims on the Treg fitted with taller profile and narrower 235/65/R17 Nokian Rotiiva AT fitted for winter - not pure snow tyres but snow flake rated for extreme service. The stock 20 inch rims and stock summer tyres will go back on in late September.
 
#21 ·
Narrow 17s a good choice.
 
#22 ·
Yes, and 235/65-17 tires are one of the very few tire sizes specified by VW for use with chains on the Touareg (to be fitted to all four wheels).
 
#23 ·
I run that size on our Touareg and have been very pleased. I have found some places it won't climb in the snow but overall it's amazing what it will do. We carry chains in winter but have never used them. Very cheap insurance. :)
 
#25 ·
In the North American 2012 manual, in one section they state that chains should be used on the front wheels, and then, in a different section, chains must be used on all four wheels. I think you'll find that they probably meant, that for the best safety, if you have only one set of chains, put them on the front. Common average condition practice for AWD vehicles. Not the best for all conditions, but acceptable for most driving situations. Unfortunately, these manuals appear to have been written, and translated by ESL lawyers....