V8 tdi ofcourse! ? once you go air you will never look at steel suspenders again Steve

 

Hi Steve,

You probably know that I have now sold my white 7L Touareg and replaced it with the same year model with low kms and air suspension.

We have done 2 shakedown caravan trips so far of a little more than 3K kms in the new vehicle and found that I do prefer the air version over the steel, my van (3200kgs) has a towball weight of 320-340kgs and previously I would not consider towing my van without using the 800LB Hayman Reece WD system due to rear sag even after fitting the upgraded Seikal suspension.

Now in the A/S vehicle, and without the WD fitted I find that the vehicle self levels, displays no issue with that load and so far has given me a great deal of confidence on it's ability to tow (in a controlled manner) that load, oddly enough I do not notice any change in steering feel or response between the two, they both seem very similar to me, as I did expect to feel some difference between the two.

In the past, I found that in the steel suspended vehicle I was confortable travelling at a speed (top) of high 80's to low 90's kms/hr, in the A/S vehicle I find that my speed comfort level has crept up into the high 90's...., you know what I mean, the sweet spot speed where you feel comfortable eating the miles away when you have a lot of distance to cover (obviously subject to road and weather condition).

I know that it's early days yet but thumbs up from me so far.



TonyB

 

Hi seafarer

Aren't you above the max TB download for the Treg? Max of 280kgs for ours.

Regards
Dave

 

Hi Steve
I have 23’6 Traveller Prodigy which is 3380kg and ball around 240 -260 which I run over a weigh bridge each longer trip as I am always close to the limit, especially rear axle load

I had a 7L 2010 with steel and was an absolute dream to tow without a WDH at any reasonable speed. Only slowed down to 93km as was sweet spot with aerodynamics I suspect

The got a 2012 7P with steel and could not drive faster than 70km/ hr without serious problems, had to get 800lb heavy duty HR WDH and then quite reasonable and similar to 2010 but much better economy by around 20%

Now have a 2015 with air and no WDH and does not need it from a driving / towing perspectiv BUT the rear axle loads are always very close with 240 kg ball if I have more than minimal weight in rear of car
This is the biggest problem in that if you loaded the ball to 280 as allowed by VW you cannot have anything at all in the car if you want to stay legal on rear axle loads

The pulling power / drive ability is excellent in all versions

 

Hi Steve


Now have a 2015 with air and no WDH and does not need it from a driving / towing perspectiv BUT the rear axle loads are always very close with 240 kg ball if I have more than minimal weight in rear of car
This is the biggest problem in that if you loaded the ball to 280 as allowed by VW you cannot have anything at all in the car if you want to stay legal on rear axle loads

The pulling power / drive ability is excellent in all versions

Hi Fred,


Interested in your statement re comparison between the 7L and 7P in a towing scenario, your statement above seems to insinuate that the 7P has a lower rear axle load capacity than the 7L, is that correct?


TonyB

 

We only carry a 60Lt Waeco fridge in the back (plus camera/s and drone). So I think I'll be ok with rear axle limits.

My sweetspot with the 7L is about 95km/h, and I did take her up to about 125kph during overtaking last month (as I thought I could see what was coming, but got caught) out on the Nullarbor. Not even a drama for the V6. Sooooooo much power in reserve.

Not looking forward to moving on from the 7L, but the 7P is going to be a step-up that I am getting a little excited about.

It's difficult to determine which one's have air suspension from the advertisements (unless they show a photo of the centre console). Any other tips as to how to identify if it's equipped with air?

 

I think all 180kW models have Air - no choice. Certainly in 2013 when I bought - air was the only option unless I bought the 150kW model.

 

Steve,

Good pick preferring no sunroof.
You can play with trailer ATM and tow ball weights here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet.../spreadsheets/d/1QsWZP7a9pd6PPNjeQFnsisq47Mb_pCxl8dnbqT83oDI/edit#gid=127022515

One aspect of air, the higher the suspension is set the more road buzz gets through to the car due to the higher air pressure. Sport mode is actually better (from my point of view) in reduction in road buzz until you hit a bigger bump and the stiffer shock setting hits you. Sport level with normal shocks would be ideal for me but I am not game to play in this respect with VCDS. This is why I will move from 20inch to 17 inch with 265/65R17 tyres. Qualification - I have not driven steel sprung Treg.

ps with respect to payload - you need to carry a full size spare when towing - where you put it I dunno - but if in the Treg that is a payload hit as well.

Jim

 

patr801 As Steve-L has responded, he is from just north of PERTH Western Aus

Steve
I only have a 40 litre Waeco, a 60 amp/ hr Thumper battery pack (approx 8kg 10kg )and not much else other than 2 light chairs and we always are very close

The 240 on the ball becomes something like 280to 300on the axle as best I could work out by playing on a weighbridge one day. But the accuracy of the weighbridge itself comes into play so real numbers? But I always carry a certificate for insurance purposes as you are probably aware.
The difference in economy between 7L and 7P was very evident as the same driving always returned the same number of KM,s per tank full and the base 180 tank went from 100 litre to 80 litre so pretty much 20% reduction and a very slight increase in power and torque but not really noticeable
Fred

 

Sorry, I read WA as Washington and didn't see OZ on the next line. My 2016 7P is 180kW and carries 100 litres. The 150kW only carries 80 litres. Going by the trip computer, my 7P gets under 9 l/100km on a long trip and the 7L got about 10 l/100km from memory. I get about 900km range before the gauge says "empty". At this point it takes 80 litres to fill the tank and there is therefore 20 litres in reserve.

 

After a few rangie's there was no way I wanted air when my 09m/y tdi was purchased.
I love(d) it's positive handling , with a crisp turn in, it always went where it was pointed.
It did sag a tad with a big horsefloat, but it was never an issue.
Enter stage left the new kid on the block, an 17 M/Y Wolfsburg edition.
I had low expectations for/of the new car but it has quite won me over.
Lovely ride with the dampers in soft, but still quite sharp turn in.
One negative issue is that the big float (unladen) with a lot of windage creates a little oscillating yaw at freeway speed; damper setting don't seem to make much difference.
I have done a squillion miles towing so it doesn't worry me, just a mild irritation.

 

With the glowing descriptions I am reading I begin to wonder what is wrong with my air suspension. For example in comfort mode, sure it is a softer ride but small bumps causing sharp road shocks are transmitted through to the cabin just as with sport mode.

 

One of the SSPs states that regardless of what shock mode is set, the computer may override the setting if it feels it is necessary. I read that as meaning that it will increase the dampening (harsher ride) if it encounters a large movement of the wheel.

In Comfort mode, washboard roads are barely noticeable for me. But sometimes, yes, I do notice some bumps feel sharper than I think they should be.

 

Just a question from my side what are the differences in the air suspension components between 7L and 7P models of the Touareg? I specifically the Air Suspension Strut?
And are the ones used on the newer models i.e. 7P Touareg compatible/interchangable with the newer Audi Q7 and Porsche Cayenne as they used to be older 7L Touareg...? Any link to information/documentation is appreciated.

 

Noting the need to have a full sized spare for towing, I had my van fitted to carry an additional spare for the car so it didn't have to go in the back or the roof. Had to buy a full second hand set to ensure I matched the rim and tyre on the car. I have 2 wheels with continental tyres now I don't need if anyone is after one or both cheap 255/55/18.

 

better off starting a whole new thread/post in the for sale section.

 

I'm in Canberra

 

This is my second one with air (I had a 9pa cayenne turbo so basically a 7L with lots of expensive and unreliable bits on it). I'd never not have a car without it again. I did over 200,000 in the old car, and the only thing I ever needed to do the air setup was replace the compressor at about 120,000 odd km's. I do a lot of gravel road driving and towing and it's the business hands down. The variable dampers are great, although it's really annoying in the 7P car that you can't select sport mode height and comfort dampers in that combination like you can on the cayenne's.
I drove a jeep grand overland MY18 with air the other day, but they don't have adjustable dampers !?!?!? the ride was rubbish compared to the 7P, even the guy at the car yard commented how nice the ride was when he test drove it. (decided to stick with the 7P for the time being).
The height adjustment is really useful for all sorts of things, like hitching trailers and vans, plus off-road driving, especially in the sand.
The VW system is good, like I said before the old car did 200,000 odd km with lots of towing and off roading, without replacing an airbag. not bad in my book.

 

Hi Tony

I do not have the actual 7L rear axle load details anymore but the tow ball limit was 350kg and the 7P is now 280kg so is I suspect the axle load limit would also reduce ?
With the 7L I definitely needed a WDH despite what the manual said as it was literally to dangerous to drive over 50km/hr as the steering was so light. With the WDH it was a massive difference and felt very safe at all speeds with the same van.

With the overhang, the 240kg load on the ball is more like 280-300 on the axle but the air suspension seems to counteract the steering feeling quite well, but weighbridge still has the increase weight which makes it close to limit on axle load with minimal weight in back of vehicle

 

Hi Fred,


I have had 2 7L's one without air and now one with, would not tow the steel suspension without WD yet now comfortably tow without on the one with air.
Van is 3200-3300kgs loaded / towball weight 330kgs min.



The 7L axle loads are


Front axle 1460
Rear axle 1610


How do these compare to the 7P?


Thanks,



TonyB

 

Here's a couple of pics, same van behind two different Touaregs, white T is on steel and grey is on air suspension, note difference of front wheel arch height, both pictured without weight distribution fitted.

TonyB
PS. for comparison I've attached another vehicle ex Qld, returning home from WA sharing our overnight camp site in South Australia.

 

Tony
The 7P numbers are
Gross combination 6415
Gross vehicle. 2860
Towing cap. 3500
Ball weight. 280
Front axle 1380
Rear axle 1530

So adding the axles gives 2910 which is 50 kg more than gross vehicle, but what I cannot find is what is empty or tare axle weights as obviously most added weight is going to rear and only a portion of front passengers adding to front and some to rear.

On paper all numbers look reasonably good but trying to get the correct weight on the appropriate axle is the problem

 

On my to do list to weigh the Treg with a full tank of fuel - total weight and rear axle thus front and rear axle. Only way to get this detail I believe, VW is simply not forthcoming.

 

Ps check here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...eadsheets/d/1QsWZP7a9pd6PPNjeQFnsisq47Mb_pCxl8dnbqT83oDI/htmlview#gid=127022515

 

Not towed a 3.1T van but our camper has a 280kg ball weight. with air suspension it's almost unnoticeable. I haven't driven a Touareg with steel springs so I can't compare. being a 14 year old car it's not as plush as some but hitting sharp bumps like our beloved speed humps makes a thump noise but the bump does not feel harsh? at speed and over corries the ride is great. The beauty of air is the car is always level no matter what the load.

 

Thanks Fred.


Seems VW dropped the axle capacities in the second gen (7P) Touareg by 80kgs and consequently the towbar loading by 70kgs but kept the 3500kgs towing capacity to keep in line what most car makers seem to do these gays, claim high towing capacities which are not substantiated by the vehicles GCVM.
Would you believe there is not a VW document nor compliance plate that shows the GCVM for my 2008, it does not exist apparently as manufacturers were not required to show that, I believe it had to do with the first gen vehicles being classified as "MC" (4WD passanger vehicle).


TonyB

 

HI Tony, I sort of agree with you re compliance plate. There is one but there are no stampings where the weight is indicated to be. Other than a generic set of weights in the owner's manual which doesn't allow for vehicle variations such as accessories, different motors, etc there is no individual weight spec stamped on the earlier Tregs. Got some numbers off VW Customer Service after much hassling but even they aren't 100%. John

 

The fact that such things as kerb weight for particular model variants is not provided by the manufacturer must surely make it difficult for an insurance company to prove you are over weight if you take the user guide as read.

 

Very true as it is also not on the rego certificate, at least not in Qld. John

 

Great spreadsheet, many thanks!