Hi, when will the 2011 be available in the US?
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2011 US availability?
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ptr727
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The VW/Porsche 2011 vehicle content strategy looks like it was a covert operation planted by a Jeep senior executive
I've looked at or at least considered all of your comparisons and I'm one that will still go with the Touareg TDI when it's released. I've ruled out some for price and others for aesthetics. The Touareg in the Executive (US) trim comes truly "loaded" (only option is the hitch) yet the others compare in price only when they are in a "nicely equipped" trim level. Once you start adding bells and whistles they fall into the same camp as your example with the Cayenne. The difference is even greater considering the included maintenance with the VW.
Living in the SE US I don't put a premium on off road ability. I'm sure it's a much bigger concern where you live.
I wasn't intending on steering anyone in a particular direction, I was really just thinking (typing) out loud...maybe its a regional thing, when I price them all out locally here's how they ring in when comparably equipped:
Touareg execline: $63,169
ML 350CDI bluetec: $64,900 (includes harmon kardon system, 20" wheels etc)
Audi Q7 TDI: $70,700 (incl bose system, 20's, nav, panoramic etc)
BMW X5 Diesel: $73,550
Lexus RX 450H (ultra premium package 1): $66,700
Porsche Cayenne S Hybrid: $99,300
So really the Lexus, ML and Treg are the same price...the Q7 a bit more (but its larger as well) and the X5 a bit more than that. The Q7, X5 and Rxh can be equipped with things that aren't available on the Treg (ie: air suspension on the Q7 and X5, vented seats etc)....IMO the Cayenne is not comparable based on price..
Actually, our thought (typing) process is pretty much the same.
I tow a 23' boat 1,800 miles each year and I'm looking for something to replace my Yukon that can tow and get pretty good milage doing it. Hence, a diesel.
I don't want to start a flame war, but I think hybrids are an incredibly bad idea. I like the size of the Q7, but don't like the looks. For some reason the ML350 just doesn't do it for me either. Maybe there are so many around that they have no cache or something. Plus the MB engine isn't quite as robust as the VW. BMW is out because of price.
I tow a 23' boat 1,800 miles each year and I'm looking for something to replace my Yukon that can tow and get pretty good milage doing it. Hence, a diesel.
I don't want to start a flame war, but I think hybrids are an incredibly bad idea. I like the size of the Q7, but don't like the looks. For some reason the ML350 just doesn't do it for me either. Maybe there are so many around that they have no cache or something. Plus the MB engine isn't quite as robust as the VW. BMW is out because of price.
I agree with you fully on the hybrids, I just threw them up there just because that's the only thing that Lexus and Porsche offer. I like diesels a lot (I've got 3 of them) so I'd steer that way again. Also agree with you on the ML, though the dealer experience is a bit better...Q7, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I like it because the hatch cargo area is a bit bigger, its ugly on the outside but really nice inside. On the regional thing BMW can't seem to sell diesels so they are incenting them quite nicely around here, they pretty much knock $5K off before negotiations start so pricing is in the ballpark.
I wish VW offered air suspension...I like how it just makes the towing experience incredible.
I wish VW offered air suspension...I like how it just makes the towing experience incredible.
I'm having trouble justifying the TDI vs the V6. If you figure the TDI at a $4000 premium, 6 mpg advantage, 20 cents higher cost for the diesel fuel - this says the breakeven point is about 200,000 miles. I am not even counting the diesel additive every 10K miles. The new gas engines don't require frequent tune-ups as before and diesels should change their oil more often so maintenance is about equal or so. I know some just like diesels and that's OK but am I missing something? Even 100,000 breakeven doesn't work. (of course, the hybrid is worse, but that's a special case given how fast it is, bragging rights, etc.)
Diesel is significantly cheap than regular grade gasoline, let alone premium in this area...besides a TDI is just nicer to drive.
If you put on 5-10K miles a year then a diesel rarely makes sense...it begins to make a lot more sense if you're a road warrior, are intent on keeping the vehicle a long time, or just like the drivability of diesels.
If you put on 5-10K miles a year then a diesel rarely makes sense...it begins to make a lot more sense if you're a road warrior, are intent on keeping the vehicle a long time, or just like the drivability of diesels.
Here in Canada....I am sure it is the same in the US....you get other options included when buying a TDI.
For 2011 the Highline TDI gets heated steering wheel and rear seats as well as Kessy which is only available for the gas versions in the Execline. Execline TDI gets 20" rims and Sport suspension
So it is not that bad.
Depends on your area in the US. Where I am diesel is cheaper then premium and middle grade and generally only a few cents higher then low grade gas. On that note I get way more out of a tank of fuel then I ever did on a tank of gas. I typically go 3 weeks between fillups where I barely made 2 in my gas V6. I don't think the Urea is that expensive, but I am getting it for free right now under my service. Diesel has the same length of time between oil changes as the gas. Both are at 10K mile intervals.
I just checked on whether extra options are included with the TDI and from the US order guide there are not any extra options if you get the TDI. The options for the VR6 and the TDI are the same for a given option level. So the extra charge for the TDI is just for the engine which is at it should be (in my option). Also, I assume by the better driveability point with the TDI pertains to low end torque although I hope the turbo lag doesn't take away from that. I hate turbo lag having lived with it. I think in the future, possibly, electric motors will be used to supplement low end torque (as in the hybrid) since electric motors basically have full torque at 0 rpm (current draw permitting). Very hard to make one technology serve a broad range of application. As an aside, which has nothing to do with cars, I see where GE has come out with a new light bulb which has an led combined with a FL. The led is for instant light while the FL is ramping up (instant start FL's are not are efficient). Not cheap but clever where you get the best of both worlds ala the Touareg hybrid (likewise the BMW and MB upper end hybrids). But I digress... (my wife has just informed that parking distance control is a must - non negotiable as usual, so it looks like big bucks for the exec model or the hybrid)
Just put the order in for an Executive trim TDI. Night Blue with Expresso interior. Estimated 10 week delivery.
Maybe diesel drivers drink the cool aid, but there aren't many, if any, comments about turbo lag. Maybe the variable vane turbo keeps it to a minimum. I assume VW addresses it this way while BMW goes with the twin turbo setup.
I just can't get around the huge expense of battery replacement on the hybrids. Even if covered by some sort of extended warranty then that kills resale value because the 2nd or 3rd owner will be looking at that expense. At some point the piper will be paid. Hybrids are championed by the same political class that forced ethanol on us.
Maybe diesel drivers drink the cool aid, but there aren't many, if any, comments about turbo lag. Maybe the variable vane turbo keeps it to a minimum. I assume VW addresses it this way while BMW goes with the twin turbo setup.
I just can't get around the huge expense of battery replacement on the hybrids. Even if covered by some sort of extended warranty then that kills resale value because the 2nd or 3rd owner will be looking at that expense. At some point the piper will be paid. Hybrids are championed by the same political class that forced ethanol on us.
You bet on the battery replacement plus in five years the technology will make the current state of the art hybrid laughable. Meanwhile, I would love to order one if I had some clue what the cost would be. The dealers here still have no idea when the '11 will show up, nor any prices (although from my experience dealers are the last to know anything).
Even with your 6% tax rate the $50500 sounds high to me. I don't think anyone is going to be able to tell you an amount. I'm not in the car business, but my opinion is that it is a new model, it has limited availability, it hasn't been officially released and the advertising campaign to generate demand probably doesn't start until next week. All that points to dealers having little incentive to discount heavily one of the few he has in stock right now. Early adopters generally pay more for everything.
I've got a deposit down on an Executive TDI with hitch and mats. They discounted it a bit less than 4%. I'll pay no dealer preparation fee, but will pay a document fee. That's from an out of town dealer, the one dealer in my town would not do the same. I'm sure somewhere I might have been able to get it for less, but that's a price I'm willing to pay and my time is worth more than to spend it calling around to every dealer in a 300 mile radius.
Denver dealer has one today 11.1.10 for me to see.
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