VW TDI EPA Recall (2.0L and 3.0L)

xylene · May 17, 2017

And let the games begin.... $... https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/pre...eleases/2017/05/federal-judge-approves-ftc-order-owners-certain-volkswagen-audi

Ethan Gaynor · May 17, 2017

Let's get this dang Settlement website live!!

Stabone33 · May 17, 2017

OK for those who will now ask, per the settlement,

YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SUBMIT YOUR PAPERWORK FOR

THE GEN 1 3.0L BUYBACK ON OR BEFORE

2 JUNE 2017.

VOLKSWAGEN HAS UNTIL 2 JUNE (15 days from

today) TO MAKE THE WEBSITE ACTIVE.

THERE IS AS OF YET NO APPROVED GEN 2 FIX.

THERE IS AS OF YET NO GEN 2 BUYBACK.

Stabone33 · May 17, 2017

Section XVI, Claims Processing, Part J:
"Notwithstanding anything else in this Order, the Generation 1 Buyback and Lease Termination offers required under Sections IV and VI of this Order shall be available to Eligible Owners and Eligible Lessees beginning within fifteen business days from the Effective Date and shall remain open until the Program End Date."

JettaGetUpandGo · May 17, 2017

Stabone33 said:
OK for those who will now ask, per the settlement

That wasn't quite clear. Could you please explain it further? Maybe in a larger font?

Stabone33 · May 17, 2017

JettaGetUpandGo said:
That wasn't quite clear. Could you please explain it further? Maybe in a larger font?

Just doing my part. I figure that post will get us through about 2 days without someone asking "what's the latest - the website won't let me submit my claim - when does the buyback start..." etc. Seems new members googling this forum only read the last two pages or so of posts.

There's irrelevant banter to be made, no time for answering such questions over and over. B-)

Coloartist · May 17, 2017

From the 3.0 Facebook page. I asked for a link with this info:

Gen2.1 and 2.2 fix have been submitted to EPA and CARB for approval. Not a good sign for chance on Gen2 buyback

TeatherWind · May 17, 2017

We'll see how that goes. I am not holding my breath for a fix, or a buyback. I figure the 20 of us with 2014s will simply get kicked under the rug.

az7000 · May 18, 2017

TeatherWind said:
We'll see how that goes. I am not holding my breath for a fix, or a buyback. I figure the 20 of us with 2014s will simply get kicked under the rug.

Love our 2014, looking forward to just 1/2 the settlement and a huuugggeee warranty and driving the car for a long time!

For some of us it is just fine.

Veets · May 18, 2017

Coloartist said:
From the 3.0 Facebook page. I asked for a link with this info:

Gen2.1 and 2.2 fix have been submitted to EPA and CARB for approval. Not a good sign for chance on Gen2 buyback

This was discussed in the May 11 fairness hearing. The comment was made by Robert Giuffra, VW's attorney.

"Volkswagen believes, with respect to the 3-liter cars,
that we can fix them. We've provided lots of information to
the CARB regulators, the EPA, the PSC. And everyone who has
looked at this believes that the 3-liter generation 2 cars can
be fixed to the certified standards.

We've made our submissions already for the approval to
CARB and EPA for the 2.2 SUVs. And we've done it for the 2.1
cars. Just the passenger cars are remaining. And so we've
done all of that."

Here is a link to the transcript. It's on page 86:
http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/filelibrary/3068/May-11-2017-Transcript.pdf

Mythdoc · May 18, 2017

Other tidbits:

Was this a consumer fairness settlement or an environmental regulatory settlement?

As the Court knows, there's thousands of automobile recalls and issues that come through the government agencies every year. And the vast, vast, vast majority of those, they are handled on a recall process.
And in the recall process, very rarely there's acompensation. Almost never do you hear anything about a buyback. And the regulatory agencies manage the process.
And when we got into the generation 2 negotiations, it was clear that, for reasons good to the regulatory agencies and the environmental agencies, they were looking to try to keep these cars on the road, if possible, but only if they could be returned to the original certified compliant emissions standard.
So we were looking at not a -- a small Volkswagen Beetle that had limited ability to put additional equipment or additional exhaust materials in it, or equipment. But we were looking at different cars. And in looking at it, we had to face the reality that this was an environmental damage case.

Mythdoc · May 18, 2017

On the performance standards (3mpg, no more than 5% decrease in HP or torque):

Granted, parties could have landed anywhere. What we tried to do is come up with objective standards that they had to meet that were reasonable and gave very small margin of error. And we addressed these in the Long Form Notice. Question 36 extensively talked about what was required.
So we had objective standards. We cannot live with the standard of "any effect" because there's no way to know what that really means. So we set numbers and we set standards, and we believe they are fair and reasonable.
And we appreciate the concerns that the objectors have stated, but we believe it was fair and reasonable and appropriate to come up with some objective standards.

This entire section is worth reading in full.

Mythdoc · May 18, 2017

By the way, this excerpts and the two above are all from PLAINTIFF's attorneys, Cabraser's team:

We also drew comfort during the negotiation process when we saw CARB and EPA actually reject some of the things Volkswagen said they could do to fix. So we know they are looking at it. We know they are following up on their independent obligations. And we felt comfortable in that.

Mythdoc · May 18, 2017

FTC rep says new administration did not alter process:

Importantly, Your Honor, the FTC's goal was never to get the maximum amount possible or to punish Volkswagen, but rather to make every owner whole. And in this complex multiparty case, the FTC fought for that objective regardless of who might have been opposed.
Now, I'm not going to address any objection, but I want to address a few that relate to the FTC's particular role or that the FTC is uniquely positioned to address.
We heard some objections, just recently, that have to do with politics. And I want to respond in a couple of ways. We agree -- I agree largely with what the Court said, although I'm going to disagree with one particular point.
The Court is correct that this happened -- the allocation of the FTC's role, a substantial portion of it, especially with respect to Bosch, happened prior to the change. But it could have been altered. It could be the case now, I could be directed, based on, sort of, a new sheriff in town, we want to do things completely different. I should stand up here and I should say it should be a different allocation or something of that nature.
That hasn't happened. There is complete support on behalf of the Commission for exactly the way that the Commission had done it originally. So I think that's important. The politics just has absolutely nothing to do with this.

Mythdoc · May 18, 2017

More from Mr. FTC:

The final, kind of, set of objections has to do with objectors complaining that the 3-liter generation 1 vehicles receive a buyback, whereas newer 3-liter generation 2 vehicles likely will not.
There's a few things to say here. The difference, as a number of parties have already pointed out, is that Volkswagen probably can repair the vehicles so that they meet the standards to which their emissions were originally certified.
This is really important. We're not talking about a partial emissions modification that makes the emissions better than with the defeat device. We're talking about a full repair that reduces emissions to the level they were supposed to be and the level they were marketed to be to the consumers.
Volkswagen almost certainly can do this without adversely affecting vehicle performance, which means that consumers who purchased these vehicles will get the car that was marketed to them. And that's what's important to the FTC.

(Emphasis mine)

Veets · May 18, 2017

Mythdoc said:
Other tidbits:

Was this a consumer fairness settlement or an environmental regulatory settlement?

Well, the FTC attorney believes it is both:

Particularly in light of what we've heard, I would like to
mention the Department of Justice and its client, the
Environmental Protection Agency. Both agencies did an
extraordinary job obtaining more than 6 billion in
environmental relief.

Among other things, their accomplishments include the
largest civil penalty in the history of the Clean Air Act,
which, has, of course, a deterrent effect; injunctive
provisions designed to prevent similar violations in the
future, and very substantial funding for remediation and
environmental programs that will make the environment whole.
Although we're a consumer protection agency focused on
consumer relief, we appreciate what DOJ and EPA accomplished
for the environment.

Specifically, Your Honor, the Commission approached both
the 2-liter and 3-liter settlements from the perspective of a
consumer protection agency working solely in the public
interest. The Commission has a remarkable depth of expertise
in consumer economics, including especially assesses the losses
caused by consumer frauds of exactly the sort that Volkswagen
perpetrated.

Importantly, Your Honor, the FTC's goal was never to get
the maximum amount possible or to punish Volkswagen, but rather
to make every owner whole. And in this complex multiparty
case, the FTC fought for that objective regardless of who might
have been opposed.

And here's something that really surprised me. The FTC attorney admitted that VWs payment to the 3.0L owners was light compared to the 2.0L settlement:

However, Volkswagen's contribution to the 3-liter
settlement fell short of what was necessary to compensate every
owner fully, which was the FTC's goal. By distributing a
relatively greater amount of the Bosch proceeds to the 3-liter
consumers, the FTC solved that problem.

Mythdoc · May 18, 2017

^^Haha, yeah the FTC guy would say that.

It's an amazing transcript. The whole thing has the tone of a graduation party for the debate team or a year-end party for the faculty of some liberal arts school in New England. Very clubby, and the outcome is never in doubt. Even the poor slobs who make objections seem to be in on the outcome, like Washington Generals to the Globetrotters.

Veets · May 18, 2017

Mythdoc said:
More from Mr. FTC:

Volkswagen almost certainly can do this without adversely affecting vehicle performance, which means that consumers who purchased these vehicles will get the car that was marketed to them. And that's what's important to the FTC.

Whether this whole settlement works or not depends entirely on the fix not screwing up our perfectly fine cars. This comment gives me hope that the fix will be OK - that I will have a car that meets the emissions standard AND will have the power and mileage I now enjoy. Now, why they didn't hold VW to that standard in the settlement agreement is beyond me. But, at least the FTC is stating that this is the goal.

Would love to know when we will hear something from the EPA on the progress of the repair submission.

Veets · May 18, 2017

Mythdoc said:
^^Haha, yeah the FTC guy would say that.

It's an amazing transcript. The whole thing has the tone of a graduation party for the debate team or a year-end party for the faculty of some liberal arts school in New England. Very clubby, and the outcome is never in doubt. Even the poor slobs who make objections seem to be in on the outcome, like Washington Generals to the Globetrotters.

Yeah. I would think their backs were all very sore from all the patting they were giving each other. :wink2:

BenTDI · May 18, 2017

Veets said:
Yeah. I would think their backs were all very sore from all the patting they were giving each other. :wink2:

I know, really. It is like being happy about getting a guilty conviction when the defendant has plead guilty. Of course, VW, was rightfully, bent over like the hunter in Deliverance.

VW TDI EPA Recall (2.0L and 3.0L)

xylene

Ethan Gaynor

Stabone33

Stabone33

JettaGetUpandGo

Stabone33

Coloartist

TeatherWind

az7000

Veets

Mythdoc

Mythdoc

Mythdoc

Mythdoc

Mythdoc

Veets

Mythdoc

Veets

Veets

BenTDI

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