VW TDI EPA Recall (2.0L and 3.0L)

VWcheats · Oct 8, 2016

Why are JGC's bad, I would hope the 9 speeds bugs are worked out by now. Is their diesel suck a POS?

Yeti · Oct 8, 2016

VWcheats said:
Why are JGC's bad, I would hope the 9 speeds bugs are worked out by now. Is their diesel suck a POS?

I had one for a loaner and absolutely hate the shifter in it. It is more or less a switch and it sucks too use. Ready of the vehicle was ok. I like my Touareg much better.

Oregon TDI · Oct 8, 2016

Yeti said:
I had one for s loaner and absolutely hate the shifter in it. It is more or less a switch and it sucks too use. Ready of the vehicle was ok. I like my Touareg much better.

I thought they dumped that killer shifter? Or is it still weird?

cheticus · Oct 8, 2016

Oregon TDI said:
I thought they dumped that killer shifter? Or is it still weird?

Yes it's gone. My brother just picked up a '17 Overland and it has a standard shifter in it.

Yeti · Oct 8, 2016

'16 I had still had that and I so hated that thing. Took the damn thing out of drive while moving and could not get it back in drive quickly. Stupidest damn idea I ever saw. There was nothing else special about the vehicle that would have me wanting one.

Stabone33 · Oct 8, 2016

VWcheats said:
Why are JGC's bad, I would hope the 9 speeds bugs are worked out by now. Is their diesel suck a POS?

FCA is ruining the brand IMO - still too cheap on the inside, lots of rattles and squeaks, Jeep dealers suck, and the UConnect system is an utter disaster. The Touareg is a much better-assembled vehicle, at least mine is.

nickm · Oct 9, 2016

JGC is the frankenstien of SUVs, it was designed under Daimler ownership (good) cost cut by Chrysler (bad), They dropped in an abandoned diesel engine from an Italian manufacturer (not sure if good or bad), then interior cheapening by FCA (bad) and FCA build quality (extra bad).

nickm · Oct 9, 2016

skyfree said:
The problem with electric vehicles for me is range and lack of towing. Will an electric vehicle ever be able to tow 5,000+ lbs with a range of 350 miles doing so? I don't think there is a super compelling reason to get a large TDI SUV unless you are interested in towing and/or range. Even hybrid doesn't make sense when you are towing.

I don't see why hybrid wouldn't make sense for towing? Electric motors make all their power instantly and its all torque. Don't forget the Touareg Hybrid made more torque at lower rpm than the TDI and a whole lot more power at the top end than a tdi could ever pull off. The towing experience was at least equal to the TDI. Besides, the 3.0 TDI isn't a commercial diesel engine, its a passenger vehicle application designed for fuel efficiency, power and smoothness. Its not a million mile engine designed to pull something for a living. I love the engine in the two touaregs I've owned the 3.0TDI in, but its not like the 6.7 in my Fords.

IMO The thing holding hybrid/electric motors back is battery range, I'd guess in a few years it'll become the commercial powertrain of choice. Business makes decisions on profitability not on emotion, so it won't take long for fleets to convert. Infrastructure will catch up overnight as soon as the demand shows up.

Sharkwaldo · Oct 9, 2016

If batteries get cheap enough to make it worth putting a sizable one in trucks I could totally see them taking on the Volt model for ones that do lots of local deliveries. If they plug in every time they are loading or unloading they will pay back very quickly by using the cheaper electric fuel. They still won't make sense for long haul though.

Solandri · Oct 9, 2016

nickm said:
I don't see why hybrid wouldn't make sense for towing? Electric motors make all their power instantly and its all torque. Don't forget the Touareg Hybrid made more torque at lower rpm than the TDI and a whole lot more power at the top end than a tdi could ever pull off. The towing experience was at least equal to the TDI

The problem is the electric motor which provides the torque boost runs off a battery which is charged by the engine. So the electric motor doesn't generate "extra" power. It just shifts some of the engine's power from one time period to another.

In other words, the TDI can sustain its max torque output indefinitely (until it runs out of fuel). The hybrid can only sustain its electric-boosted max torque output until its battery is depleted, after which its torque output would actually become worse than the regular gas engine since some of its power output will be diverted to recharging the battery (thus paying for the time period you used the electric boost).

It should be fine on level ground since once you've got the load up to speed, not much power is required to maintain highway speeds. But the battery only has enough capacity to push the Touareg hybrid for about 2 miles @ 31 mph in battery-only mode. So theoretically (I don't own the hybrid), if you're towing with the hybrid up a mountain (thus putting a near-max load on the electric motor), it's going to start off better than the TDI, but after a mile or two when the battery is depleted it'll become worse than the gas engine.

skyfree · Oct 9, 2016

nickm said:
I don't see why hybrid wouldn't make sense for towing? ...

Solandri said:
The problem is the electric motor which provides the torque boost runs off a battery which is charged by the engine. So the electric motor doesn't generate "extra" power. It just shifts some of the engine's power from one time period to another.

In other words, the TDI can sustain its max torque output indefinitely (until it runs out of fuel). The hybrid can only sustain its electric-boosted max torque output until its battery is depleted, after which its torque output would actually become worse than the regular gas engine since some of its power output will be diverted to recharging the battery (thus paying for the time period you used the electric boost).

It should be fine on level ground since once you've got the load up to speed, not much power is required to maintain highway speeds. But the battery only has enough capacity to push the Touareg hybrid for about 2 miles @ 31 mph in battery-only mode. So theoretically (I don't own the hybrid), if you're towing with the hybrid up a mountain (thus putting a near-max load on the electric motor), it's going to start off better than the TDI, but after a mile or two when the battery is depleted it'll become worse than the gas engine.

Agree with everything said there and I'll just add that hybrids usually have smaller engines that run at higher load, which isn't a good thing when you add the load of towing something heavy. The ones that have the same engine that the non-hybrid has (Tahoe hybrid comes to mind) have decent MPG gains unloaded (25% in the Tahoe case), but no gain towing (10 mpg in the test I read). It makes sense that it wouldn't because any gain would be offset by the extra weight it is carrying around. It's just too far into the power band to utilize the hybrid mode much. The Hybrid Tahoe also gave up 2,000 lbs of tow capacity over the non-hybrid.

The hybrid Tahoe was last sold new in 2013. I'm sure that new technology would help the performance, so it will be interesting to see what manufacturers come up with in the future. I have nothing against the technology which is very reliable, but right now at least diesel works much better.

fincher · Oct 9, 2016

The Touareg Hybrid was a monster but was not worth the premium cost because of the TDI. Trade-off not there. Simply a monster. Plus, not all dealers could service it.

Sure would be more appealing now.

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Stabone33 · Oct 9, 2016

fincher said:
The Touareg Hybrid was a monster but was not worth the premium cost because of the TDI. Trade-off not there. Simply a monster. Plus, not all dealers could service it.

Sure would be more appealing now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think I would pick the XC90 T8 hybrid over a Touareg hybrid for non-towing driving. Volvo has absolutely nailed the interior and it's a great looking vehicle on the outside.

nickyt · Oct 9, 2016

Looked at the XC90 but it has one flaw that must be corrected. Once that is fixed, it could be a good vehicle.

I can't get past the suicide gear shift selector. For the safety of you and the ones you love, I recommend that you refuse to purchase or drive any vehicle that uses this confusing system. It just takes one time (one moment of distraction) and someone can die from this insanely bad design.

The Jeep GC (after killing Chekov) has dumped the suicide gear shift selector.

Just search google. Deaths and injuries. It is every bit as bad as the dreaded GM ignition switch.

Anton Yelchin's Jeep Was Included In Rollaway Recall Linked To 41 Injuries (Update)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-anton-yelchin-and-the-scary-reality-of-the-jeep-that-rolls-away-and-kills-you/

From the Washington Past

Last year, NHTSA began investigating the unconventional gearstick design on these cars, which was causing crashes because drivers were mistakenly shifting to neutral when they thought they were shifting to park.
With a regular gearstick, drivers choose a transmission option (park, reverse, neutral, drive, etc.) by moving the stick into the corresponding notch or detent. Drivers can feel the stick settle into position.
But a new, different, design was used in the cars affected by the recall, which include certain recent models of the Chrysler 300, Dodge Charger, and Jeep Grand Cherokee.
These cars use a “monostable electronic gearshift assembly,” which resembles an arcade joystick.
According to a preliminary report from NHTSA in February, the design led to 314 complaints involving rollaway incidents, and 121 alleged crashes. Thirty of those crashes reportedly involved injuries — including four cases so serious that people had to be hospitalized for broken bones or ruptured organs.

fincher · Oct 9, 2016

XC90 is damn nice. Need to check out the gear shifter. Would be something to replace my Durango down the road.

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nickyt · Oct 10, 2016

C'mon Volvo. You are supposed to be about safety first. Time to go back to the traditional safe leather clad gear shift to go with that nice Volvo XC90 interior.

Google is really good for this search. Using JGC+gear+shift will link you to news articles. Click on the google image tab and you can see interior shots of the JGC with both the old joystick and the replacement traditional gear shift. The joystick just looks smaller, cheaper, and wrong to me.

I hope that all car designers start to shy away from joysticks since they are now proven to increase accidents and chance of death. Remember these are just electrical switches, there are no cables running back to the transmission.

It is sort of like having a steering wheel that is not round. It sounds cool, then you find out that sometimes the old ways are the better...

Sharkwaldo · Oct 10, 2016

Other companies that have used that shifter (and similar shifters) put in code that automatically puts the car in park if you open the door. If Jeep had done that it would not have been as dangerous. They really should have caught this one before the car was released. Most shifters are software based nowadays so it's all about user interface, and they failed at that.

2blueyam · Oct 10, 2016

As a motorcycle rider, I may take a different look at this. As the operator of a vehicle it is your responsibility to know how to properly operate your motor vehicle. That includes putting it in park before leaving the vehicle. Would something that automatically puts it in park when you open the door be a good idea? Sure, but you should have already done that yourself. Take some personal responsibility for your own safety. This is COMPLETELY different that the GM key debacle or the airbag debacle. The difference here being that if you properly operate the vehicle, nothing dangerous will happen.

Stabone33 · Oct 10, 2016

German legislative body vote to ban ICE by 2030. Means little for the ROW, but significant nonetheless.

https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/08/germany-wants-combustion-engine-ban/

Stabone33 · Oct 10, 2016

nickyt said:
C'mon Volvo. You are supposed to be about safety first. Time to go back to the traditional safe leather clad gear shift to go with that nice Volvo XC90 interior.

Google is really good for this search. Using JGC+gear+shift will link you to news articles. Click on the google image tab and you can see interior shots of the JGC with both the old joystick and the replacement traditional gear shift. The joystick just looks smaller, cheaper, and wrong to me.

I hope that all car designers start to shy away from joysticks since they are now proven to increase accidents and chance of death. Remember these are just electrical switches, there are no cables running back to the transmission.

It is sort of like having a steering wheel that is not round. It sounds cool, then you find out that sometimes the old ways are the better...

Volvo's system is light years better than FCA's abortion of a gear selector. I've test driven the Volvo and it's actually not that hard to figure out. You push a button to put it in park, but you can't push the button until you actually come to a stop. (Well, you can push it but it probably doesn't do anything but remind you to come to a complete stop first...I didn't try that). Pushing the button is pretty positive - and you see the indicator change, and that's the only thing the "P" button does, so if you are pushing it while stopped, clearly you want the car to be in Park. If you unbuckle your seatbelt and open the door while stopped, the car puts itself in park. Can't get out of park without depressing the brake. That said, don't know what kind of redundancy is built in to such an electronic system - I would assume the switch is waterproofed to protect against spills, but not sure what happens if you hulk-press it and break the switch. I would bet Volvo mashed the hell out of the switch in testing, though.

Additionally, Volvo has standard pedestrian and cross-traffic sensors, which must be manually disabled through several steps in the touchscreen each time you start the car, so as long as you haven't gone and turned these off, the car is going to stop itself before it hits anything.

Volvo's taking their pledge of zero deaths in their cars by 2020 seriously.

VW TDI EPA Recall (2.0L and 3.0L)

VWcheats

Yeti

Oregon TDI

cheticus

Yeti

Stabone33

nickm

nickm

Sharkwaldo

Solandri

skyfree

fincher

Stabone33

nickyt

fincher

nickyt

Sharkwaldo

2blueyam

Stabone33

Stabone33

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