Club Touareg Forum banner
4,621 - 4,640 of 13,153 Posts
I suspect that if the TDIs that have been sitting this long will start and can be moved to the front of the lot, they'll get washed and that's about it unless the buyer insists on more.
Unless the buyer doesn't even know to ask about those things, which I'm guessing, most will NOT...
 
Don't think this has been mentioned yet

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/b...nternational/vw-presentation-in-06-showed-how-to-foil-emissions-tests.html?_r=0

FRANKFURT — A PowerPoint presentation was prepared by a top technology executive at Volkswagen in 2006, laying out in detail how the automaker could cheat on emissions tests in the United States.
Repost. Important News Article.
If you have not read this yet, then read it now!
As the PowerPoint underscored, people inside Volkswagen were aware that its diesel engines were polluting significantly more than allowed. Yet company executives repeatedly rejected proposals to improve the emissions equipment, according to two Volkswagen employees present at meetings where the proposals were discussed.

The management board led by Martin Winterkorn, the chief executive who resigned in September after the admission of cheating, repeatedly rebuffed lower-ranking employees who submitted technical proposals for upgrading the emissions controls, according to the two people who attended meetings where the proposals were discussed. The management board rejected the proposals because of cost, the people said.
 
I wonder how many ppt decks there are on steering wheel shake and adblue system failures? I'd suspect quite a few...
 
  • Like
Reactions: zosocane
Repost. Important News Article.
If you have not read this yet, then read it now!
As the PowerPoint underscored, people inside Volkswagen were aware that its diesel engines were polluting significantly more than allowed. Yet company executives repeatedly rejected proposals to improve the emissions equipment, according to two Volkswagen employees present at meetings where the proposals were discussed.

The management board led by Martin Winterkorn, the chief executive who resigned in September after the admission of cheating, repeatedly rebuffed lower-ranking employees who submitted technical proposals for upgrading the emissions controls, according to the two people who attended meetings where the proposals were discussed. The management board rejected the proposals because of cost, the people said.
That article is a smoking gun. I don't understand why it's not getting more media attention. It's the NY Times, not Jalopnik! ;)
 
Repost. Important News Article.
If you have not read this yet, then read it now!As the PowerPoint underscored, people inside Volkswagen were aware that its diesel engines were polluting significantly more than allowed. Yet company executives repeatedly rejected proposals to improve the emissions equipment, according to two Volkswagen employees present at meetings where the proposals were discussed.

The management board led by Martin Winterkorn, the chief executive who resigned in September after the admission of cheating, repeatedly rebuffed lower-ranking employees who submitted technical proposals for upgrading the emissions controls, according to the two people who attended meetings where the proposals were discussed. The management board rejected the proposals because of cost, the people said.
So what this says is that the board was horrible at enterprise risk management. They made a bet that based on their sales being far lower than that of the previous record holders, Hyundai-Kia, they would also be in for less than $100M, which they deemed an acceptable total loss even if they were fined that much. They likely believed their expected loss would be far lower than that, and continued with the cheating. The probability of occurrence of the risk event, which they judged as "being caught by American regulators," was indeed negligible. So, their risk management plan was to quietly negotiate with the regulators if caught, and absorb the loss. This is clearly what they have done both with the EPA/CARB, and in the court in front of Judge Breyer. The probability of risk event occurring and resulting expected loss were low enough to accept the loss if the risk event occurred and the full impact (i.e., worst-case loss)* was experienced. The alternative of implementing a fix and taking a hit on sales would have, in their estimation, cost them more.

Unfortunately, they did not correctly determine the risk event, or all of the impact event drivers. From their perspective, this was a black swan event. Just shrug and deal with it - that's all you can do with black swans. But from the perspective of literally everyone else, the true risk event was "being caught," and there were many drivers that determine the severity of the impact event*. It was not a black swan. So, they vastly underestimated the probability of the risk event and the impact drivers - chief among the impact drivers being an American government under an administration dedicated to leaving a legacy of environmental activism, and next on that list of drivers, Volkswagen being Not American. Finally, they misjudged the fervor of American environmental activism and the way that can play in to court selection and the various personalities among judicial districts.

Bet they wont make that mistake twice...and neither will any other automaker. Any other automakers trying shenanigans in America are quietly and quickly crashing their engineering schedules to implement fixes.

The only thing they seem to have got right is that most owners don't care about the emissions - they care about the driving dynamics, and they're more pissed off about the hit to resale value than anything else.

BTW, I saw a 2015 TDI Sportwagen yesterday with temp tags and VW dealer placards in the plate holder. I'm sure it was not sold new, but people are still buying them.

*I'm referring to the Standard Risk Model proposed by Smith & Merritt.
 
Your analysis is spot on with one minor exception. They 'bet' that they would not be caught by the regulators and that bet was correct - they were discovered by UVa researchers trying to figure out why VW could apparently meet the new NOx requirements without AdBlu but no one else could. They were NOT caught by EPA inspectors or equivalent. [Mostly because EPA doesn't have an effective inspection program] The researchers naturally ended up going to the EPA and saying "We can't figure out what is happening here - our tests on Jetta TDIs indicate the NOx limits are NOT achieved yet they are certified?"
 
Your analysis is spot on with one minor exception. They 'bet' that they would not be caught by the regulators and that bet was correct - they were discovered by UVa researchers trying to figure out why VW could apparently meet the new NOx requirements without AdBlu but no one else could. They were NOT caught by EPA inspectors or equivalent. [Mostly because EPA doesn't have an effective inspection program] The researchers naturally ended up going to the EPA and saying "We can't figure out what is happening here - our tests on Jetta TDIs indicate the NOx limits are NOT achieved yet they are certified?"
That's exactly what I said - the actual risk event was that they would *be caught* - the entity discovering the cheat is not important. Winterkorn and his board only assessed the probability of occurrence from the perspective of a regulatory agency discovering the cheat, which was correctly assessed to be very low. They failed to consider groups like the WVU UARC that did catch them. Couple that with a predicted total loss (also incorrectly assessed) no higher than $100M, and they figured they were fine.
 
"being caught by American regulators," is your exact quote. It is a very minor point that it wasn't the regulators who picked up on it, it was UVa.
 
There's no political component in this case. No agenda, no anti-Germany bias. Nothing like that. The rules predate the current administration & regulators.
There is always a political component...the EPA is a regulatory agency led by political appointees, and the DoJ can choose to prosecute or not regardless of the evidence. Neither the Big Three nor Hyundai-Kia were prosecuted or even investigated by the DoJ under either of the previous administrations for violations just as egregious as VAG did, and in both cases with a much larger number of affected vehicles.

The American auto industry, having recently been bailed out by the federal government and on the receiving end of significant subsidies for developing electric vehicles per Obama's widely publicized agenda before and after election, needed a little help...especially since VW just achieved their own goals of becoming the world's biggest automaker.

VW did it to themselves, and the Administration saw a perfect, silver-platter chance to make an example of them.
 
"being caught by American regulators," is your exact quote. It is a very minor point that it wasn't the regulators who picked up on it, it was UVa.
Yes, read it again. In the next paragraph, I state that the true risk event was "being caught," not being caught by American regulators.
 
it wasn't the regulators who picked up on it, it was UVa.
It was West Virginia University.

Even more of a black swan from VW's perspective...who knew they had a UARC dedicated to low emissions vehicles? Most Americans mistake them for a much more prestigious university in a different state.
 
When doing their risk analysis I wonder if VW consulted with any attorneys who fully understand US law. Seems like they just assumed we're the same as EU.
I wonder who Hyundai's lawyers were?
 
When doing their risk analysis I wonder if VW consulted with any attorneys who fully understand US law. Seems like they just assumed we're the same as EU.
VW is used to getting their way with the German Government. Apparently what is good for VW is good for Germany. Notice the Merkel refernece below.

While I don't want VW destroyed, a light slap on the wrist will not do either. The final result needs enough pain to clearly send the message "Never Again!" Also a little time served by a few executives for premeditation would not be out of line.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/29/b...4/29/business/international/volkswagen-legal-costs-emissions-cheating.html?_r=0
Matthias Müller, the chief executive of Volkswagen, had what he described as a two-minute conversation with Mr. Obama during the president’s visit this week to Hanover, not far from Volkswagen headquarters in Wolfsburg. The encounter took place on Sunday at a dinner hosted by Chancellor Angela Merkel for Mr. Obama and representatives of German industry.
 
I consider myself open minded and I love VW product. I hate obvious cases of gvt run amok and pushing people or companies around to score points with voters or whatever.

But damn, VW deserves exactly what they're getting.
 
4,621 - 4,640 of 13,153 Posts