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VW TDI EPA Recall (2.0L and 3.0L)

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#3,981 ·
What I'm not getting is why haven't the so called easy fixes just been done...for example if the 14+ 3.0 is just a software patch then why not deal with that and get your new vehicles being sold, then move onto the current 2.0, then deal with the older stuff. that's what I would be pushing if I were a dealer.
 
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#3,983 ·
nickm said:
What I'm not getting is why haven't the so called easy fixes just been done...for example if the 14+ 3.0 is just a software patch then why not deal with that and get your new vehicles being sold, then move onto the current 2.0, then deal with the older stuff. that's what I would be pushing if I were a dealer.
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Leverage by the EPA/CARB. Keeps the pressure on holding the entire lineup hostage.
 
#3,984 ·
nickm said:
What I'm not getting is why haven't the so called easy fixes just been done...for example if the 14+ 3.0 is just a software patch then why not deal with that and get your new vehicles being sold, then move onto the current 2.0, then deal with the older stuff. that's what I would be pushing if I were a dealer.
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I'm starting to think there is no easy technical fix: Injecting more AdBlue leads to other problems. VW has probably been testing the hell out of all this and I bet they discovered there's no simple solution. Or maybe EPA/CARB refuses to accept any incremental solutions based on the "era" of the engine. They could want a 100% complete solution for all affected vehicles, all at once. No partial fixes.
 
#3,985 ·
182RG said:
Leverage by the EPA/CARB. Keeps the pressure on holding the entire lineup hostage.
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+1

And I wouldn't be surprised if exteneded warranties and maintainance programs on the AdBlue system are part of the EPA/CARB pressure.
 
#3,986 ·
^^At the least, VW should be informed that the AdBlue system is to be covered under the 7 year/70,000 miles emission warranty.

And that anyone who paid to get any of it repaired is to get an 100% refund.
 
#3,987 ·
Oregon TDI said:
Well we may never know if VW would have still decided to cheat if they'd licensed BlueTec.

I hear and understand what you're saying. But isn't passing the formal test process without cheating the only issue here? The real world stuff is like "Well, that's interesting", but it's not very relevant in this case.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Lol.

At least until someone produces proof of MBenz etc. cheating the test like VW did.

EDIT: Every car manufacturer "games" the system. Gaming the system to pass the letter of the laws isn't the same as cheating. Nobody told car companies that their vehicles must never ever under any circumstances emit more than x amount of NOx. They're only required to pass the exact test, without cheating.
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This is precisely what I've been saying all along to those who claim that VW has been killing people by emitting more pollutants than they've been certified to under strict lab protocols.

We all accept "your mileage may vary," but when you tell someone "your emissions may vary" suddenly there's indignation and outrage and "WHAAAAR enviromunt!".

It's also telling that the only automaker to sell a small, affordable diesel car in the US at a profit had to cheat in order to pass the test. GM sold one at a loss for 2 model years, and every other automaker literally gave up after trying.

Maybe the standard is unreasonable?

I'm all for governments attempting to spur innovation through legislative and tax incentives, but it should be more of an encouraging breeze than a cattle prod or stick of dynamite. Seems to me CARB and the EPA went for the stick of dynamite, as they are doing with CAFE standards, which are driving US car prices through the roof where other nations have seen decreases with the economic rebound.
 
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#3,988 ·
stane said:
hey NICKM how are u doing this? Getting a car for a week?
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brought the GLE back. it's good, but just good.

I won't be satisfied unless I'm in a Touareg, Cayenne (would never buy as long as Touareg is around) or new Q7.

VW has extended terms to keep me for now, and has agreed to do so until they can sell me a new diesel . they simply extended the timeline on my original deal, no gimmes or kickers, but that's fine for now.
 
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#3,989 ·
nickm said:
brought the GLE back. it's good, but just good.

I won't be satisfied unless I'm in a Touareg, Cayenne (would never buy as long as Touareg is around) or new Q7.

VW has extended terms to keep me for now, and has agreed to do so until they can sell me a new diesel . they simply extended the timeline on my original deal, no gimmes or kickers, but that's fine for now.
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Perfect decision! I have been worried about you! I am sure this will work out fine.
 
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#3,990 ·
Stabone33 said:
This is precisely what I've been saying all along to those who claim that VW has been killing people by emitting more pollutants than they've been certified to under strict lab protocols.

We all accept "your mileage may vary," but when you tell someone "your emissions may vary" suddenly there's indignation and outrage and "WHAAAAR enviromunt!".

It's also telling that the only automaker to sell a small, affordable diesel car in the US at a profit had to cheat in order to pass the test. GM sold one at a loss for 2 model years, and every other automaker literally gave up after trying.

Maybe the standard is unreasonable?

I'm all for governments attempting to spur innovation through legislative and tax incentives, but it should be more of an encouraging breeze than a cattle prod or stick of dynamite. Seems to me CARB and the EPA went for the stick of dynamite, as they are doing with CAFE standards, which are driving US car prices through the roof where other nations have seen decreases with the economic rebound.
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EPA has been dealing with a lot is stuff (gold minr, Flint, this...) the past 12 months. This drama deflected a lot of criticism of the agency.

Think about it, "Real World" testing has not been part of the equation, until someone wrote that $50K check to WVU. Testing has been on the "honor snack" system (read: mfgs do and report emissions testing).

VAGs cheat device was an unexpected, but welcomed gift to the EPA...
 
#3,991 ·
nickm said:
brought the GLE back. it's good, but just good.

I won't be satisfied unless I'm in a Touareg, Cayenne (would never buy as long as Touareg is around) or new Q7.

VW has extended terms to keep me for now, and has agreed to do so until they can sell me a new diesel . they simply extended the timeline on my original deal, no gimmes or kickers, but that's fine for now.
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Seeing a lot of new Q7s around here. Really look good in the flesh.
 
#3,992 ·
I'm still curious how this will pan out for the 3.0L TDI. Regarding the 2.0L, the 1st gen engines, there is rumor of installing a NoX trap of some sort. The 2nd gen ones (Passat), there is quite a bit of uncertainty because of where the SCR injection point it, versus the 3rd gen, which is ran through the engine for warming.

I'm looking at the 3.0L schematic and the SCR isn't warmed by the engine, from what I can read. I know the challenge of reducing NoX lessens with a larger engine, but I'm wondering where the remedy for the 3.0L lies. Is it just an increase of SCR usage? Some speculate that the current systems aren't equipped to handle the increase.

Thoughts to this?
 
#3,993 ·
nickm said:
brought the GLE back. it's good, but just good. I won't be satisfied unless I'm in a Touareg, Cayenne (would never buy as long as Touareg is around) or new Q7. VW has extended terms to keep me for now, and has agreed to do so until they can sell me a new diesel . they simply extended the timeline on my original deal, no gimmes or kickers, but that's fine for now.
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There's some kind of Magic in the design & execution of the Touareg. Probably in the Q7 & Cayenne too although I've never driven them. You drive a Touareg for a while, especially a TDI, and everything else in its class seems like a step down.

Stay with us Brother Nick!
 
#3,994 ·
My current guess is that (eventually) VW will just buy enough offset credits to repent for the extra environmental damage. This outcome could mean that there would be no recalls / changes to the existing cars already sold.
 
#3,995 ·
nickyt said:
My current guess is that (eventually) VW will just buy enough offset credits to repent for the extra environmental damage. This outcome could mean that there would be no recalls / changes to the existing cars already sold.
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If they do that, they are exposing themselves up to the slew of Class Action Suits from owners.

If they bought the cars back, there would be no suits, as judges would most likely dismiss.
 
#3,996 ·
Philth, I agree and have stated that VW should have an open offer to voluntary buy back any TDI that owners no longer wanted. Price could be what the car was worth 12 months ago. I doubt more then 10% of the TDIs would have been sold back to VW. It would have been more of a PR move then anything substantial. Being used, VW dealers could have then resold those TDIs with VW absorbing the price difference.
 
#3,998 ·
The Duramax 8 cylinder Diesel engine uses something called the 9th injector that adds fuel to the down pipe for heating during the regen process. So there are other ways to provide heat during the regen as a possible solution.
 
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#4,000 ·
MtnPass said:
The Duramax 8 cylinder Diesel engine uses something called the 9th injector that adds fuel to the down pipe for heating during the regen process. So there are other ways to provide heat during the regen as a possible solution.
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love my dmax !!
 
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