[noobytoogy]

I'm only too sorry I cannot help but, hells bells, I admire your persistence!

 

[dragline1570]

Ivan
Great to see some advancement with the issue.
So when it was going this time and you drove it did it go properly with no surging, full power etc ?
You still have not confirmed that when you try to start and it fails to start that the injectors are pulsing.
After what you have found so far it can only be a fuel issue.
Either no fuel being injected or starving for fuel.
Clear all those faults from when you thought you had a battery issue and replaced batteries and post again after start attempt. Are you still getting the Eprom fault?

Regards
Drag

 

[TUNINGBYAMG]

Thanks guys,

I'm so deternined to fix this myself that the 'trusted source' can only be me. I won't spend a dime giving this to some dealer or garage to be told what i already know

Now when i got it started, ran fine for 30 min at least drove it, full power reaches 60mph no problems not a sign of anything wrong.

Drag say this is a fuel issue, i still can't get it around my head how can it be?
Analysing the fuel system theres 4 check valves 2 on each side 1 to keep 8.5 bar on the fuel rail and 1 at the tandem to keep 1bar and return rest. Its almost impossible to start all 10 cylinders if theres no fuel much less keep it going for 30 min.
What will be the result say one electrical pump in the tank has failed? Like i said i do hear them both but will try to re-open covers and find out.

I still think my issue is with injectors not being fired for some time, you mentionned to measure injector pulse what tool did you use to measure and wheres the most appropriate place?

 

[dragline1570]

Thanks guys,

I'm so deternined to fix this myself that the 'trusted source' can only be me. I won't spend a dime giving this to some dealer or garage to be told what i already know

Now when i got it started, ran fine for 30 min at least drove it, full power reaches 60mph no problems not a sign of anything wrong.

Drag say this is a fuel issue, i still can't get it around my head how can it be?
Analysing the fuel system theres 4 check valves 2 on each side 1 to keep 8.5 bar on the fuel rail and 1 at the tandem to keep 1bar and return rest. Its almost impossible to start all 10 cylinders if theres no fuel much less keep it going for 30 min.
What will be the result say one electrical pump in the tank has failed? Like i said i do hear them both but will try to re-open covers and find out.

I still think my issue is with injectors not being fired for some time, you mentionned to measure injector pulse what tool did you use to measure and wheres the most appropriate place?

Something like this.
You will need to remove your valve covers and test at the injector maybe not all but to see if the injector is being fired that will clear up if its an ECU control problem. Test both banks.
Be careful if you do this as the wires will be not as flexible as new.

I would not rule out pump or some other fuel pressure issue. I have seen the mechanical fuel pumps failed vanes in the unit so the rail only gets 14psi instead of 115psi but by the same token it would run with this issue.

When you swapped the other ECU did you try swapping both units now you know where both are?
not sure if this will still block start without codes?


Deluxe Noid Light SET 9 Piece Electronic Fuel Injection Tester With Case | eBay

Regards
Drag

 

[TUNINGBYAMG]

Drag,

The ECU swap will not be a valid test since i don't know if truck will start for a second if its blocked by immobilizer, plus i don't want to risk having 2 non-running V10's in my garage

Regarding fueling, i can vouch for the right Tandem pump, it looks brand new, previous owner must've replaced it due to leaking around 100,000mi mark. Heck the aluminium on it is still bright and shiny.

As far as these Noid lights, this is quite interesting as a tool, does this one you've shown me in the link (specifically the bosch one), will it plug to the injector harness?

 

[TUNINGBYAMG]

I also contacted my favorite VW dealer and spoke to a service advisor
asked him straight up, how much for ECU reprogramming via their VAS tool
he quoted me about 2hrs
however started explaning me that my issue doesn't sound like the ECM programming since i can get the truck to run, he says probably a corroded wire or bad ground, something around those lines. I have 3 problems with what he said:

1. Corroded wire anywhere on this truck will generate an open/short circuit code, i have clean ECU diagnostics
2. Bad ground? would it even start without proper power to anything?
3. Bad ground or corrosion don't happen after a shut down/restart

 

[whammie]

I also contacted my favorite VW dealer and spoke to a service advisor
asked him straight up, how much for ECU reprogramming via their VAS tool
he quoted me about 2hrs
however started explaning me that my issue doesn't sound like the ECM programming since i can get the truck to run, he says probably a corroded wire or bad ground, something around those lines. I have 3 problems with what he said:

1. Corroded wire anywhere on this truck will generate an open/short circuit code, i have clean ECU diagnostics
2. Bad ground? would it even start without proper power to anything?
3. Bad ground or corrosion don't happen after a shut down/restart

TUNINGBYAMG

Not sure if this will help, but I experienced essentially the same problem you were having, but not on my old Touareg but on petrol Jetta. What would happen is I could start the car when it was cold and not run for a while. If I tried to restart after it being run or warm, it would just crank! Typically this is caused by 1 of 2 things commonly, the thermoswitch thinking the car is cold when its actually hot and hence flooding the engine, or the hall effect crankshaft position sensor. As you are talking about the diesel, I am pretty sure the first can be most likely ruled out immediately. But strangely enough maybe the crank position sensor????

Like I said, just sharing some experience, it most likely is not of any help as the V10 is far more complicated, believe me I know, had one and miss it

 

[dragline1570]

I also contacted my favorite VW dealer and spoke to a service advisor
asked him straight up, how much for ECU reprogramming via their VAS tool
he quoted me about 2hrs
however started explaning me that my issue doesn't sound like the ECM programming since i can get the truck to run, he says probably a corroded wire or bad ground, something around those lines. I have 3 problems with what he said:

1. Corroded wire anywhere on this truck will generate an open/short circuit code, i have clean ECU diagnostics
2. Bad ground? would it even start without proper power to anything?
3. Bad ground or corrosion don't happen after a shut down/restart

Yea bad ground wiring issue would you think throw a code.
So that relates back to are the injectors firing.
As for which light fits the harness in the head it will be try and see. Maybe the Bosch unit will fit but I am sure a man of your talent can modify one to do the job.
Try the ECU disconnect again that seemed to work last time?

regards
Drag

 

[TUNINGBYAMG]

Well guys, i now have a full scan using VCDS 12.12.3 with a HEX CAN Ross-Tech interface
it did find something that puzzled me, address 11 being the 2nd ECM computer, and wouldn't you know it EEPROM error right there and Engine-Engine Data bus problem
also important to note is RPM signal

Still my starting technique never fails, i unplug ECM 2 crank until engine starts to sputter, then replug it and crank away and she starts on all 10.

Clearing the EEPROM error works, it doesn't stay there but problem with starting persists

***NOTE the Cylinder misfire is a valid code and this is the original issue i was troubleshooting, i have 150psi on cyl 1 which is half what spec is

Also cranking speed reported to ECM 1 is 180-190rpm when i scan during cranking, should've checked rpm speed reported to ECM 2 but forgot

VCDS Version: Release 12.12.3
Data version: 20140905

Wednesday,29,October,2014,21:22:10:06890

Chassis Type: 7L (7L - VW Touareg (2003 > 11/2006))
Scan: 01 02 03 05 06 08 09 11 13 15 16 17 18 19 1C 22 29 32 34 36
37 39 3C 46 47 55 56 57 64 65 68 69 6C 6D 6E 75 76 77

VIN: WVGPZ77L74D086558 Mileage: 201110km/124963miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: None
Part No SW: 070 997 016 R HW: 028 101 172 9
Component: V10 5,0L EDCG000AGMª2813
Revision: 5KO3 Serial number: VWZ3Z0D7223977
Coding: 0060575
Shop #: WSC 22116 444 58604
VCID: 2953C0FC83E3C856EC3-5124

1 Fault Found:
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 000 -
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 546 /min
Torque: 181.7 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 13.53 V
Bin. Bits: 00001100
Temperature: 16.2°C

Readiness: 0 0 1 1 1

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09D-927-750.lbl
Part No: 09D 927 750 AN
Component: AL 750 6A 0546
Coding: 0004153
Shop #: WSC 31414 000 00000
VCID: 7AF1CFB036C5B3CED59-5124

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 7L0-907-379-MK25.lbl
Part No: 7L0 907 379 E
Component: ESP ALLRAD MK25 0202
Coding: 0022786
Shop #: WSC 31414 000 00000
VCID: 3B7F0AB4797F4AC68EF-5124

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: None
Part No SW: 7L0 909 137 C HW: 7L0 909 137 C
Component: G2 Kessy 6850
Revision: 00H23072 Serial number: VWZ3Z0D7223977
Coding: 0147688
Shop #: WSC 22116 444 57724
VCID: 336F2294512F828656F-5140

Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
Component: ELV XXXX

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 06: Seat Mem. Pass Labels: None
Part No: 7L0 959 760
Component: Sitzverstellung 0701
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: F7F7568485D72EA62A7-5124

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 7L6-907-040.clb
Part No: 7L6 907 040 T
Component: CLIMAtronic R/L 4222
Coding: 0000230
Shop #: WSC 25053 444 59338
VCID: 4183785C1B932016D43-5124

1 Fault Found:
00003 - Control Module
014 - Defective
Freeze Frame:
(no units): 2.0
Temperature: 77.0°C
Temperature: 44.0°C
RPM: 0 /min


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 7Lx-937-049-V1.clb
Part No: 7L6 937 049 N
Component: 3003
Coding: 0111839
Shop #: WSC 22116 444 68306
VCID: 4797664435B71E261A7-5140

4 Faults Found:
00979 - Lamp for Low Beam; Right (M31)
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
01117 - Generator Terminal DF Load Signal
008 - Implausible Signal
00907 - Intervention load Management
000 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 11: Engine II Labels: None
Part No SW: 070 997 016 R HW: 028 101 172 9
Component: V10 5,0L EDCG000AGSª2813
Revision: 5KO3 Serial number: VWZ3Z0D7223977
Coding: 0060575
Shop #: WSC 22116 444 58604
VCID: 2953C0FC83E3C856EC3-5124

8 Faults Found:
18048 - Internal Control Module
P1640 - 000 - EEPROM Error - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 0.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Bin. Bits: 00000000
Bin. Bits: 00000000
Bin. Bits: 00000000
Bin. Bits: 00000000
Bin. Bits: 00000000

19793 - Engine-Engine Databus
P3337 - 000 - Implausible Message - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 0.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 12.92 V
Bin. Bits: 00001110
(no units): 0.0
(no units): 0.0

16624 - Manifold Pressure / Boost Sensor 2 (G447)
P0240 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 0.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h

16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 000 -
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 588 /min
Torque: 221.2 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 13.45 V
Bin. Bits: 00001100
Temperature: 10.8°C

17111 - RPM Signal from ECU
P0727 - 000 - No Signal
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 63 /min
Torque: 466.1 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 5.85 V
Bin. Bits: 00001111
Idle Stabilization: 19.3°KW
RPM: 0 /min

17846 - EGR Valve 2 (N213)
P1438 - 000 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 0.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 11.93 V
Bin. Bits: 00001111
Mass Air / Rev.: 1100.0 mg/str
Mass Air / Rev.: 0.0 mg/str

19786 - Motor for Intake Manifold Tuning Flap 2 (V275)
P3330 - 000 - No Signal
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 0.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 12.08 V
Bin. Bits: 00001100
Torque: 0.0 Nm
Torque: 0.0 Nm

16690 - Cylinder 6
P0306 - 000 - Misfire Detected
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 546 /min
Torque: 158.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 13.38 V
Temperature: 30.6°C
(no units): -105.0


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 3D0-909-601.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 601 C
Component: 05 Airbag 8.4E++H01 0352
Revision: BB36963 Serial number: 00027553
Coding: 0012341
Shop #: WSC 31414 000 00000
VCID: 234FD2D4E1CF1206A6F-5140

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 7L0 959 339 D
Component: BF-Gewichtsens. 005 0007

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 7L6-953-549.lbl
Part No: 7L6 953 549 E
Component: Lenksäulenmodul 3301
Coding: 0000232
Shop #: WSC 31414 000 00000
VCID: 4183785C1B932016D43-5124

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 7L6-920-xxx-7LA.lbl
Part No: 7L6 920 980 PX
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB0 2935
Coding: 0023231
Shop #: WSC 22116 444 53799
VCID: 9D3B642C47ABA4F610B-5140

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 18: Aux. Heat Labels: 7L6-819-008.lbl
Part No: 7L6 819 008 B
Component: Standheizung E1MAC 0235
Coding: 0000030
Shop #: WSC 31414 000 00000
VCID: 356B1C8C5F5B9CB678B-5124

1 Fault Found:
01177 - Engine Control Unit
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<>CAN 0101
Coding: 0000006
Shop #: WSC 22116 444 11348
VCID: F0E56D98E0B9799EEBD-5124

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 1C: Position Sensing Labels: 7L6-919-879.lbl
Part No: 7L6 919 879
Component: JCI PathPoint 1700
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 040DB1484401F53EBF5-5124

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 22: AWD Labels: None
Part No: 0AD 927 755 BE
Component: TRANSFERCASE 0122
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 7F073EA42DE796E6E27-5140

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 29: Left Light Labels: 3D0-909-157.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 157
Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(l) 0001
Coding: 0000003
Shop #: WSC 31414 000 00000
VCID: E6C90BC0D27DA72E811-5140

2 Faults Found:
01539 - Headlights Not Adjusted
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation - MIL ON
00492 - Body Pitch Angle from Level Control Module
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 32: Differential Locks Labels: None
Part No: 0AC 927 771 B
Component: SG-Quersperre 5018
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 3777168445576EA66A7-5124

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
008 - Implausible Signal

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 34: Level Control Labels: 7Lx-907-553-34.clb
Part No: 7L0 907 553 F
Component: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C3P1 3081
Coding: 0015521
Shop #: WSC 31414 000 00000
VCID: 36691B80425D97AE711-5124

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr Labels: None
Part No: 7L0 959 760
Component: Sitzverstellung 0701
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: F7F7568485D72EA62A7-5140

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation Labels: 7L6-919-887-CD.lbl
Part No: 7L6 919 887 B
Component: Navigation 0629
Coding: 0000003
Shop #: WSC 25157 444 52574
VCID: 458B6C4C0FBB0C36E8B-5124

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 39: Right Light Labels: 3D0-909-158.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 158
Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(r) 0001
Coding: 0000003
Shop #: WSC 31414 000 00000
VCID: E7D706C4D577BE26BA7-5124

1 Fault Found:
00492 - Body Pitch Angle from Level Control Module
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 7L0-959-933.lbl
Part No: 7L0 959 933 E
Component: B3 HSG 0201
Coding: 0000085
Shop #: WSC 25152 444 53439
VCID: 3E7903A06A6D5FEEA91-4AEA

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 7L0 959 701 B
Component: Tuersteuergeraet FS 0201

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 7L0 959 702 B
Component: Tuersteuergeraet BF 0201

Subsystem 3 - Part No: 7L0 959 703 B
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HL 0201

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 7L0 959 704 B
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HR 0201

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System Labels: 7Lx-035-4xx-47.lbl
Part No: 7L6 035 466
Component: 12K-AUDIOVERST 0108
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: F1E3689CEBB37096E43-5124

1 Fault Found:
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 7L6-035-186-CD.lbl
Part No: 7L6 035 186 A
Component: Radio 0629
Coding: 0005077
Shop #: WSC 25157 444 52574
VCID: 3163289CAB33B096243-5124

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 65: Tire Pressure Labels: 7L6-907-273.lbl
Part No: 7L6 907 273 B
Component: Reifendruckueberw. 0053
Coding: 0210390
Shop #: WSC 22116 444 53799
VCID: 3777168445576EA66A7-5124

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 68: Wiper Electr. Labels: 7L0-955-119-V1.clb
Part No: 7L0 955 119 F
Component: Front Wiper 2416
Coding: 0000004
Shop #: WSC 31414 000 376832
VCID: 3777168445576EA66A7-5124

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 69: Trailer Labels: 7L0-907-383-1D2.lbl
Part No SW: 7L0 907 383 G HW: 7L0 907 383 G
Component: ANHAENGERELEKTRONIK 8854
Coding: 0000002
Shop #: WSC 09807 444 01389
VCID: 387515B8484961DE63D-5124

1 Fault Found:
16347 - Control Module - EEPROM Error
014 - Defective
Freeze Frame:
Count: 0
Count: 0


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 6E: Ctrl Head Roof Labels: 7L6-919-044.lbl
Part No: 7L6 919 044 L
Component: DACHDISPLAY 0538
Revision: 00800538 Serial number: 2009268.07
Shop #: WSC 31414 000 00000
VCID: 40857D581099291EDBD-5140

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 75: Telematics Labels: 3D0-035-617.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 035 617 A HW: 3D0 035 617 A
Component: Telematik NAR1 0106
Coding: 0076510
Shop #: WSC 09113 444 54677
VCID: 1E39E320CAAD3FEE891-5140

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 76: Park Assist Labels: Redir Fail!
Part No: 7L0 919 283 F
Component: 0E Einparkhilfe 1107
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 397310BC734378D69C3-5124

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[TUNINGBYAMG]

UPDATE

I have found that 2nd ECM misreports signal for Engine speed sender by +-50rpm, it actually fluctuates when doing measuring blocks and truck running, whereas the 1st ECM accurately reports engine rpm. By the EDC16 design Master ECM feeds engine speed signal to Slave ECM.
This is got to be something with the engine-engine databus.

 

[TUNINGBYAMG]

Had some more time to fool around today and took off wipers and rain tray, found lots of leaves everywhere took off both ecms inspected wire looms, cleaned grounds to chassis. All looking good. Plugged everything back tried to start, it takes a good 20 sec of cranking and we have a slow painful start 1-3-5-7-10 cylinders firing, almost like they were lacking fuel. Stop and try to restart it starts, leave it sit for 5 min and back to square one.
Any ideas that support a fuel issue and what to check next? During my compression test i did remove right bank fuel rail and fuel filter body.
I've double checked for fuel leaks and theres none. Priming the pumps in the reservoir through vag com does not change the starting speed of the engine...

 

[lgibson]

Change your tandem pump

 

[TUNINGBYAMG]

Both could fail at the same time? Just after a compression test? It doesn't add up, the dual one looks brand new almunium is shiny and all

 

[lgibson]

What's a compression test got to do with it?
Change the other one then.

 

[4ePikanini]

a faulty engine speed sensor will not allow engine to start.(any errors via VCDS?)

a faulty in tank pump will make the car extremely difficult to start (remove the feed from the tank and turn the ignition on. There should be a quick spurt of diesel as the intank pump tries to prime)

Try and get a clear hose inline with the return feed to check for bubbles which could indicate cracked heads or leaking injector seals or leaking tandem pump or or or......

 

[4ePikanini]

PS : Is there white smoke coming out the back when you are cranking?

 

[TUNINGBYAMG]

Compression test requires to block both in and out pipes of the tandems so theres no fuel leaking out when you crank the engine and fuel rails are removed. This is per the vw workshop manual procedures. Also looping the reservoir in and out connectors, i just disconnected the tank lift pumps

 

[4ePikanini]

I also went through your error codes again.

terminal 30 crops up a lot which is the reset switch under the seat paired with a couple of relays A1 and A3

 

[4ePikanini]

Compression test requires to block both in and out pipes of the tandems so theres no fuel leaking out when you crank the engine and fuel rails are removed. This is per the vw workshop manual procedures. Also looping the reservoir in and out connectors, i just disconnected the tank lift pumps

Just unplug the injector looms on the back of the heads. That is the simplist way.

Removing diesel from the injectors is not clever as they still need diesel for cooling and lube, even when not firing as the cam is still activating it.

Removing the injector loom connection means it will still get diesel but the injector will never inject diesel.

 

[4ePikanini]

Also check fuse 15 in the plenum chamber (the lower red one in my picture)