Well considering all the magazines rated the Touareg 1st over the Lexus hybrid, Benz ML CDI and x5 diesel (in that order) back in 2010, and considering that the Touareg is all new this year and the others haven't changed, I'd expect the gap has widened vs. narrowed.
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the Q7 is a size bigger than the others, otherwise the touareg/x5/ML/cayenne are all relatively the same size.

If you need a badge, buy the bmw, if you drive them all though its unlikely you'd pick differently that all the magazine editors did.

 

I've only had my 2011 Touareg for about two weeks, so my comparison shopping is still quite fresh in my mind.

Since you said you are looking for a diesel, we'll just skip over the Cayenne. With the exception of the base trim, the Cayenne is really in a different price category anyway.

The Q7 and Touareg share a ton of parts, so your maintenance and reliability costs will pretty much be a wash. The engine is identical between both, but with the Touareg weighing about 600 pounds less than the Q7, performance and mileage will go to the Touareg. The Touareg also wins in the storage race, where the Q7 trades storage for an additional two seats.

Quite honestly, it was a tough decision between the two for me. Both are luxurious, with the Audi having the edge on interior materials and overall design. However, the infotainment system in the VW is far superior to the Audi MMI system, which seems to be a somewhat marginal upgrade to the older MMI system I have in my Audi TT. The touchscreen is just better and easier to use.

So the Q7 carries more people, the Touareg tows more. The Q7 has better seats and interior appointments, the Touareg has better electronics. There are tradeoffs here, and the Q7 can get pricey pretty quickly if you go wild on trim and options. But I do think it's worth it. Regardless, I don't think there's a "wrong" answer here. I like them both a lot.

I did consider the X5 briefly, but I found that the price rose way above the Touareg quickly since BMW seems to charge for every little item in the car. I didn't look too deeply at it, though, so I won't offer any speculation. I have not driven it, though I hear the BMW diesel is quite nice.

 

I've only had my 2011 Touareg for about two weeks, so my comparison shopping is still quite fresh in my mind.

The Touareg also wins in the storage race, where the Q7 trades storage for an additional two seats.

I have to correct this VERY inaccurate note in terms of "storage"...I don't even know how you came up with that. Where the heck do you think the 3rd row bodies fit? It certainly wouldn't work in the Touareg back there!

FYI, the wheelbases: Audi Q7/118" > VW Touareg /112"

1st, the Q7 seats, as you saw, fold flat into the floor and when closed down, allowing a LARGER cargo area than possible in the Touareg. In fact, when the 2nd row seat are up in both vehicles, the Q7 still has more rear cargo area.

2nd, the VW has the completely stupid raised up floor in the cargo area as an afterthought/retrofit due to the Urea tank installation under the floor.

3rd, the Touareg seats require flipping the seat bottom forward, into what would have been very usable space in the 2nd row foot well. The Q7 2nd row seats just flop down flat like a normal wagon, or like my LR3, or like a Mercedes GL.

4th, the clear floor length from the back of the 1st row seats to the closed cargo hatch/door is longer in the Q7.

So, again, I don't know how anyone could come up with the two vehicles even being close on usable interior space, much less putting the VW in that regard.

As for basic "storage", the Q7 doors have considerably more room as well for your junk. If one removed the 3rd row seats, you could fit not only a true, full size spare, but also a lot more crap if desired.

I am pointing these things out because I like most of the design of the VW VERY much, but this 2nd row seat bottom flip-flop and cargo floor crap really piss me off. These rear seats were designed by people who do not "use" a vehicle for much.

What's "cool" about the Touareg over the Q7, despite the oddities?

Rear hatch glass - opens separately. I love that, makes it possible to get things out of rear when some hitch mounted object is in the way or if you had dogs who want to make a run for it

The VW nav is easier to use on first attempt, although I bet the Audi nav becomes quick once you know the way.

The VW is cheaper, no matter how you look at it. Base vs base, loaded vs loaded, I don't even know how someone could actually compare the two in the budget aspect. Same goes for the BMW, the x5d, when built my way, is $75k and pretty much the same with the Q7.

On another angle, the Touareg warranty is crap! What does it say about a company when they DROP the coverage by 25%. They also screw you one more time on the cpo warranty now by only adding 2 yr/24,000 miles. Audi, BMW, Porsche hold to 4yrs/50,000 + cpo 2/50,000 = 6yrs/100,000 mile coverage making those much better cpo purchases.

The "maintenance" plan added by VW is "BS" in my opinion when BMW includes it up to 4/50k as well as including a lot more items in it such as brake rotors and pads.

I love the Touareg but people need to know the pros and cons.

 

Thanks guys for the great inputs. Another issue I am thinking about is the lack of rear view camera on 2012 Touareg. I am wondering whether the Q7 is skipping this option too or VW just prioritize Audi in front of VW and still put rear view cameras on the audis.

 

I vote Q7 simply because there really are no worthwhile drivetrain differences anymore between the treg and the Audi that made the treg unique. For the extra row seat and a much better luxury appointment, I simply think the Audi has the upper hand in the current generation.

 

The Audi wins if you need the third row (and the badge). I looked at a Q7 to replace our Honda Pilot. Instead, we got a Dodge Durango Citadel.

If you do not need the third row, the Touareg wins hands-down, especially the new Touareg.

 

Some friends of mine were in town from LA this weekend and I drove them around in my '11 Treg Lux. They own the Q7 diesel and they made several comments about how much they liked the Treg. Very unscientific but I was a little surprised because I assumed they would like their own better since they paid the premium for the Outtie.

I'm of the same opinion as many of the posts here. If you don't need the 3rd row, it's Treg hands down. Lighter is always better.

 

The 2011 Touareg is new and redesigned, the Q7 is not, but it will be so next year for 2013.

 

I am going to test drive the Audi later this afternoon. I also want to check out the rear view camera availability on the Q7. It would be a real shame if VW reserved all the camera components for the Audi and Porsche. I don't know whether I should make a big deal on the camera thing. Although I will be the main driver, but it would be very helpful if my wife drives it into DC, the parking space in DC's parking lots are really small. From what I read in another post, VW is not even pre-wiring for the aftermarket cameras, which is a shame and costy to install one later.

 

Just got back from Audi and testdrove the Q7. The difference in acceleration and stopping is significant. Plus, the long body is really not my taste.

A good piece of information I got is that the manager told me that although the new Q7 premium plus will be shipped without the rear view camera, it's going to be prewired and there will be a call back when the camera units are in stock to get them installed.

This really should be the right way to go for Touareg also. I don't know whether VW dealers can make that request to the factory.

 

The rear view camera is also my concern and holding me back. For such money, there should be a camera.

 

I just recently got a kid and a raise so I am planning to get a good big diesel suv. I've been looking at the Touareg but then just realized that for

similar price there are audi q7 (basic "premium" trim) and bmw x5 and ML350 all in the 50k range.

- It's relatively "small" compared to the audi and bmw though.

-performance, and comfortableness?

So, if $50k is your range, then you can pretty much go with anything out there right now if you are ok with either base models or slightly used. I vote used in this case because you get much more for your $. For example, maybe a 2008 vehicle that had an msrp of $67,000 is now $35,000.... is that appealing, if it has only 25,000 miles and a few years warranty left, smells new, comes with new brakes, etc.? At least if you decide you don't like it in two years, you loose very little too.

Sometimes what you also get for your $ are not only a higher spec vehicle but also more total warranty time if you find the right car. Meaning, if you drive a lot of miles, then even when a car is 2 yrs into it's factory warranty, but cpo increases that to 100,000 miles, your doing better on a low mileage car having 4 yrs still and maybe something like 80,000 miles when played right. Just an idea for you to consider.

Next, if a vehicle is a total dud/lemon, hopefully it was figured out in the first year/10,000 miles.

You were correct on size comparisons, the Touareg is the smallest of all you mentioned, even the bmw. The bmw wheelbase is 115", Q7 118", VW 112". Wheelbase does not tell all of course, but it does affect handling on the highway. I'm not bashing the VW but the longer wheelbases are "easier" to relax in while at speed.

Also, the bmw with the sport suspension, not even close, way sweeter on the road and cornering. The Audi, when equipped with it's own fancy pants version, is also pretty awesome, the VW, does not have this feature available. It is just pretty good as is.

We found the Q7 headrests to be annoying. Not sure how long your drives will be, but after 4-8 hours, I am going to find what's giving me a neck ache and be rather pissed if it's my $50k-$80k vehicle!

The VW headrests were better than Q7 but nothing really comes close to the specific "comfort seats" on the BMW. 20 adjustments, including upper half of the backrest, side bolsters, ventilation, and headrests not poking your freaking head forward, also has fine adjustment headrest flaps.

Arm rests, better in bmw, ok in Audi, fine in VW, although the older Touareg had a fore-aft sliding center arm rest, very cool.

Now, sure, the Bluetech ML must have been in your obvious list but you did start this thread with "child and large suv".

What exactly is "large" about any of those listed? None of them are "large", when in the suv category. Yes, they are large compared to some cars but not even all cars are smaller. For instance, my bmw 5 series wagon has considerably more usable space than the Touareg, yes, it really does, I've owned them both, I've measured, and fit items and the only dimension the Touareg wins is marginally in height inside the cargo area, but only by about 2". Otherwise, my wagon is as wide, wider in some aspects, longer, and doesn't have that goofy flip-forward seat issue. I can fit 4 grocery bags, 2 each side, in the 2nd row footwells with the 2nd row seats down flat. My passengers have a lot more legroom and shoulder width space than the Touareg.

I get 25-28 mpg at 65-75 mph with no trouble. Aside from towing and ground clearance, what does a Touareg have over a wagon of this size? A Mercedes E350 diesel wagon would be sweet!

Or, for an actual "large" diesel suv, the GL fits that name perfectly and it has some great aspects we liked over all the above models.

We test drove one day back to back. The best thing to do is go get one, drive it to another dealer, then drive that one, get back in the first one and on to the 3rd location, etc, then back in first one for the return. You'll either be completely confused or know exactly the right one

The GL was pretty nice depending on your needs. I think if we had a kid, plus the kids junk, and then kids friends, etc, the GL would be the obvious answer. Decent mpg, engine actually felt good for it's size, curb weight same as Touareg v6 tdi, wheelbase is 121" though.

It's seriously smooth on the highway but still turned really sharp/tight radius with ease, we were surprised. Stock tires are large (=good road hazard safety), rear hatch shape is more square so you actually get protection from rain/snow. The others slant in somewhat putting you in the rain a little more. GL tow rating is almost the same numbers as Touareg however I would see it actually more stable doing it due to wheelbase.

Used GL 07-10 are certainly in the $50k range depending on options and mileage.

FYI, 07 came standard with a full size spare and I assume this was because it was prior to "bluetech" requiring urea and thus had more room in the underfloor area?

GL has a 2nd glass roof over the 3rd row area which is sort of nice.

As for panoramic sunroofs, Q7 sucks unless you enjoy wind noise from the roof as well as radiant heat and cooling from the outside because there is only a thin mesh screen "shade" rather than an actual solid panel. The bmw has a solid panel, very nice feature.

There are many other comparisons but it starts to become more about what's important individually.

 

I was comparing the 2010 Touareg.... because if someone gave me the 2011, I'd have to sell it the next day. Aside from a few little cool tech things, it's one more step down just like the 2009 was a step down in some fundamental ways from 2008.

You cannot say the Q7 looses on interior space though, or cargo, or whatever you want to call it. By using the extra seats the Q7 provides, you can't say it is then lesser in volume, that's just illogical. It's like saying if you have room for 6 people, you'll bring more along on that trip where you only planned on 4 people. Are you planning on hitch-hikers ?

I only went on about all the ways the Q7 is larger because you said it had less cargo space. FYI, the "cargo" space in most vehicles is considered to be the area behind the 2nd row with the 3rd row really being considered a flexible use of that space.

Now, with the reduced features of the Touareg 3, you are correct, it and the Q7 are more comparable.

It used to be that the Touareg set itself apart by having a low range transfer case, locking differentials (for real "lockers", not just computerized traction control for roads), air suspension (now only the Audi has it, although rarely and not nearly as versatile as the Touareg version), the Touareg had the cool rear window, I'm sad that's gone.

The Touareg evolved into a really nice CAR. The Q7 was already a largish CAR. I don't really even qualify these as "suv's" but that's another thread topic!

I see I do need to go check out the T3 though.

About idrive, no way, not at all. iDrive is simpler and more intuitive than the Audi stuff, old or new. The newest idrive ads the quick buttons but retains the very intuitive and multi functioning "wheel-knob" which is much better for the driver not having to look to see what button is where and all those Audi parts.

I generally prefer touch screen but sitting way back in my 535 wagon, that wouldn't work too well. Touch screens are better for more upright sitting positions or dash where the surfaces are closer to the fingers without having to lean all over.

Thanks for pointing out my mistakes in the 2010/2011 differences.

 

All your posts in this thread goes to show how little you know about the new 2011 egg.

The egg is light years ahead of all the trucks you mentioned.


The GL is ugly and terrible. (Other two cars in the lot are a E63 AMG 2011 and a 350 so I do like the brand.) The X5 idrive is not that intuitive and takes plenty of criticism for exactly that which is why I'm puzzled as to how you can mention it as a plus, especially when anyone who reviews the egg raves about how awesome the navigation and touch screen is.


If you like the egg so much, go take a look at the 2011. I had to pick between the egg, porsche, bmw, mercedes and the VW won hands down. Best value for your money, great performance, great fit and finish on the inside.

Whats there not to like?

 

The Touareg is certainly not "light years" ahead of these other vehicles and your opinions on the aesthetics of the GL have nothing to do with what it offers over the Touareg. It is certainly not my favorite but it was also perfectly fine. Mind you, when comparing cars I am always comparing the very top spec possible and in the GL, that means the newest ventilated seats, the BMW "comfort seats", and similar in the Audi.

It all depends on what a person needs and wants in a vehicle. If you want a nice tall car, with a touch screen nav, I guess you buy the VW.

If you need the most space possible and higher ground clearance, you buy the GL.

If you want an Audi, you buy the Q7. (because it is only marginally larger than the VW and has air suspension if desired.)

If you want the most fun to drive diesel, and a higher class interior, you get the BMW.

As for opinions, I found the idrvie instantly intuitive as well as CONSIDERABLY SAFER to use while driving. I do not like having to lean up or forward to touch a screen and said touching requires more actual attention than a knob which goes where I know it will go without even having to look at it.

The newest idrive is actually "lights years" ahead of all the other vehicle systems listed here.

None of these vehicles are as comfortable and fun to drive as my E61 though. I got 31 mpg on a 45 mile trip last night 60-70 mph speeds, rolling to flat. It will tow 4400 lbs no problem and my bikes fit upright with seat posts removed just like is required in a Touareg so for me, the new Touareg offers almost nothing over my basic wagon.

Both are all wheel drive, I have the same amount of useful cargo space, in fact, mine is just a tad bit longer along the floor, my ground clearance is only a couple inches less (I have larger tires and not lowered so it's about 1/2" over stock), I get to drive a fun manual, I have more 2nd row seating space for family, a longer warranty, same load capacity and actually, a better load leveling suspension.

This is why if I needed an suv, I wouldn't even test drive a 2011 Touareg. If it were a male species, the USA version has been neutered for 2011.

 

jwestpro, your perspective on comparisons is quite refreshing actually. What are your thoughts on the new Cayenne? I noticed you did not throw it in the mix up above.

 

There's no sense in comparing the new Cayenne in terms of handling or fuel consumption...if you know what I mean

I'd like to drive one but at least they retained the air suspension. I always thought their 4x4 system was really cool though, actually considerably more capable than the Touareg used to be when equipped with the PDCC option.

For those who don't know, PDCC not only made the Cayenne corner like a sports car, it also opened it up off road by means of disconnecting the sway bars to allow for great wheel articulation, which in turn equals more tire contact on uneven terrain, thus providing much great traction. The old Touareg will have it's wheels off the ground a lot sooner, thus relying on just the remaining tires in contact. However, where the terrain is not so bad, they would have been about equal.

The Porsche also had the option for locking rear differential, as far back as the 04/05/06 but it was part of an "off road tech package" prior to the PDCC being added onto the 08 year model.

Ergonomically the Porsche and VW are almost identical except the trim seemed nicer in the Porsche, when optioned upwards.

I am a sucker for all the sweet bits like alcantara/suede headliner that you can get by ordering a Porsche.

 

I find it somewhat strange that the ultra sporting nature of the Cayenne that turns many off, still offers a very off road capable vehicle, even for 2011-2012, although I'm not too clear on a manual locking rear diff for 2011-2012, perhaps that has been deleted now as well? They do still offer PDCC which is great news.

"........For even greater traction on difficult terrain, the multi-plate clutch can be fully locked.

The electronically variable rear differential on the optional Porsche Torque Vectoring Plus (PTV Plus) is integrated within the all-wheel-drive system. This automatically helps to ensure the optimal distribution of drive torque on particularly uneven surfaces. If one of the rear wheels begins to slip, the rear differential varies the amount of torque transmitted through each driveshaft, thereby restoring traction. In Off-road Mode 3, the main off-road control fully locks the rear differential. Then both rear wheels receive the same amount of torque, regardless of surface conditions. The optional PDCC enables greater wheel articulation in all three modes, improving traction further.

For effective prevention of damage to the underside of the vehicle, all new Cayenne models can be equipped with optional off-road underbody protection, comprising rock rails with integrated skid plates, a reinforced engine-bay guard, additional protection for fuel tank and rear axle, and a second towing lug."


The only thing I'm not sure I agree with what you wrote, is when comparing interior style of the Touareg and the Cayenne(I'm talking EXEC versus Cayenne S). The Toaureg's ultra simple(boring to look at?) dash layout, basically tells me that I'm sitting in a (as you put it nicely), "a nice tall car, with a touch screen nav". The new 2011-2012 Cayenne one on the other hand, UNLIKE the previous Cayenne, has an interior with button layout that is very Panamera like, and IMHO, nothing like the Touareg in ergonomics, not to say that one isn't.

 

^ I think we agree on the interiors, I was just confusing in my writing.

If only we could combine the tdi and affordability of the VW with the awesome good bits of the Porsche.

Sounds like the new Porsche has retained a better off road awd system even though it is likely hardly ever used

 

Just took delivery of a 2012 Touareg Lux from Chris Farnham at Langhorne. We shopped all of the brands you mentioned except for Porsche.

Touareg over Audi Q7: We did not need that third row seat. We had just passed a Honda Pilot on to our son because HE needed the third row seating (four children) and we did not.
Too big a vehicle.

Touareg over BMW X5 xdrive 35D: Vehicle was too high for easy entry by my 5'3" wife and the running boards (mounted at the same height as the floor of the vehicle) just made a bad situation worse. The two piece rear hatch (the bottom part opens down) made it impossible to get close enough for that same wife to put groceries and golf clubs in comfortably. If you leave the bottom piece in place then it is necessary to lift items up and over that piece in order to place them into the rear of the vehicle. Clearly this vehicle was designed for someone tall with long arms... but not a small woman. The BMW X5 was the vehicle that she most wanted to like. It drove great (sport package) but felt smaller inside than the Touareg. In the end, the Touareg seems to handle almost as well and was thousands of dollars less.

The Cayenne was never in the mix since it was not available with a diesel.

I don't find the Touareg interior boring. It is straightforward and functional and all of the systems integrate well and are logical. It is very well balanced and solid without being overly heavy (extra weight=extra fuel). It corners well with little body lean. It has all of the necessary electronics and is a lot of SUV for the money.

People have different needs. Not everyone will like every offering. I have an excellent VW dealer (Langhorne) to service at and that is not true in my case with Audi so in the end we bought the vehicle which best suited our needs from a respectable dealer for a fair price.

 

Nice review dennisjs. My wife also feels that the Q7 is too large and doesn't like the idea of hauling the extra 3rd seat row around which we don't need it(yet). Also given her past records in the parking lots, the Q7 will be a challenge for her.

 

I think I would have been interested in the Q7,but didn't really need the 3rd row ,except for once or twice a yr for the grandchildren.

When I priced out the Q7 it was about $7000 more than the lux Tregg,so it was a non starter.

I also like the feel of the Tregg,for a relatively big vehicle it handles very well.

My only issue with both is the complication of the systems,and the trouble they can cause later in the life of the vehicle. JP

 

I think the Q7 is a lot of SUV for the money if you need that third row.

I wouldn't worry about the electronics because most vehicles have them nowadays and in my limited experience with the Egg-- they seem to work very well.

 

I would add that the TDI EGG is a rocket ship... fast, fast, fast. Fast. It goes like a bat and handles incredibly well for its size. The more I drive it the more I like it. It is absolutely solid. It climbs like a mountain goat and with only 300 miles on it I am averaging mid twenties with almost no highway driving up and down the mountains.

 

This is why if I needed an suv, I wouldn't even test drive a 2011 Touareg. If it were a male species, the USA version has been neutered for 2011.

AMEN TO THAT!!! what a disappointment vw has become, even in the cars. I test drove a 2011 jetta just to see what all the fuss was about....talk about ruin a wet dream. the 05 mustang had better fit and finish and that was terrible IMO. just as well slap a Honda badge on the hood and you'd never know the difference. better yet, save some time and money and just get a Honda.

 

I understand the 2011/12 touareg removed some of the "hardcore" off-road features such as air suspension and 4xmotion. But in reality 95+% touareg owners don't really deal with the kind of off-road conditions that require those features. In return you get better mileage and less complexity. Is this trade-off worth it? I personally would rather have those features given VW didn't make the newer models much less expensive. But I don't think it's that bad.

 

There is a car for every need in this market. I contemplated and drove the q7 and treg. I needed something to tow my cars, have a comfortable ride, get good MPG and be a professional daily driver. All within my $50k budget. Tell me another car that meets all those requiments?

 

Chevy Suburban 2500. 10K towing, plus very comfortable for 6 plus tons of luggage space. Mpg, about 12-15.

 

Hi Guys, I live in Europe and I did the same decision few months ago. Touareg was the most loaded for the same price (air susp.,area view..). X5 is obsolete as it is 5 year old model and the same is Q7. The only thing I miss in Touareg is a head-up display which X5 has..thats a great feature.

 

I agree with that. The Suburban 2500 is a nice rig. Very comfortable.

 

As others noted, Touareg and Audi Q7 are a close-breed vehicles with a lot of similarity. Touareg TDI has upper hand in towing, being capable to tow 7700lbs vs. Audi Q7’s 6600lbs, and wins in fuel economy averaging 19/28 vs. 17/25 of Audi Q7. Audi Q7 wins in interior space competition and overall appearance. Touareg is quite less pricy – statement that they are a wash as far as their price goes is not precise – the difference of similarly equipped would be about $5K according to my estimates. Also, Touareg is built with great off-road capabilities while Audi Q7 is more city-drive oriented vehicle. Touareg acceleration is far more superior than of Q7 thus making it much more fun to drive. I’ve ended up buying Touareg and am very happy with my choice, but if my kids wouldn’t be out in college and that is only me and my wife who ride in Touareg, then I’d go with Audi Q7.