A pano roof looks like a good idea until the car's upside down and it's in a million pieces as you slide up the road . . .

 

The paper thin steel sheet they use for roofs will likely protect less than the glass that shatters into small blunt pieces. Rigidity is in the A, B, C and D pillars. Think of a roll bar on a race car...they don't put a thick roof on a race car, its the roll bar that protects.

 

I totally disagree: a sheet of of steel is going to protect you FAR better than a sheet of glass that disappears in a million sharp fragments.

There are no reinforcing bars running across the pano roof!

You have obviously never seen a fencing stake coming in through the glass and sliding into the driver's seat between your legs! It happened to a work colleague and after that NO ONE ever specced a glass roof for their company car again!

 

tooby, Good grief, perhaps we should start arguing about convertibles. There is great structure as nick stated..and I wonder what people are smoking when complaining about the Pano roof. Of course, I've only had mine for a few months...but so much trash talking. It's a lovely option. It doesn't heat up in 100 degree heat. It is quiet, and I thoroughly enjoy it personally.

 

On both 7L and even more so in the 7P, the roof and its cross members uses High Strength Steel to enhance rigidity. Glass is not a structural material, even when used as a structural material (hideously expensive), it is usually the laminate layer that provide the structural property, and even then, allow for very little deformation. Glass in the sunroof is most likely not a structural material, if it is, it will be fixed with very rigid restraints in the corners, which it isn't.

If you have noticed your car flexing excessively when the glass is broken, then either it is loaded in appropriately (ie not on its loading points, being the wheels), or it has not been designed very well and will suffer glass failure regularly, eg the well known problem in the Mitsubishi Magna (with the 2.6l engine).

Recommend you google images for 7P and 7L touareg and different types of steel used, very strategic and specific use of steel in critical areas of the vehicle. If you're worried about rolling a vehicle, ie you drive to ski fields in NZ with steep dropoff on the side of the road etc. a sunroof is not a good idea as others have pointed out here.

edit:

Have a look at this:
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_297.pdf

and
OK found an image for a Q7

 

......Glass is not a structural material, even when used as a structural material (hideously expensive), it is usually the laminate layer that provide the structural property, and even then, allow for very little deformation. Glass in the sunroof is most likely not a structural material, if it is, it will be fixed with very rigid restraints in the corners, which it isn't...................

Ok, I'm not sure what to agree with here, but at the risk at sounding like a nerd, the ex-bmwdude would like to come back from the dead and point an interesting fact out.

The 87-91 BMW E30 M3's windshield was bonded in place, whilst all the other regular 3 series of the same years were not. You can literally pluck and push out the windshield on a 325i in under 2 minutes!. The reason for the bonded windshield on the M3 was simply for structural rigidity when racing.

 

I am not so concerned about a roll over because I should be held firmly in my seat if the safety systems do their thing. A fencing stake would easily pierce a thin metal roof as well so I can't really see a big deterrent against the PS on that issue alone given its unlikely occurance.

Does anyone know for sure if the fixed glass panel in the PS over the rear the car is lamanted or will shatter into a zillion small pieces?

 

A roll over is just one example a rigid roof helps, have a look at the typical side on ancap crash test, those cross member on the roof would make a huge difference.

Sound to me like you aren't really interested in structural rigidity as such because there is a blatant obvious answer, ie high strength steel vs no strength glass, and a solid maleable steel vs brittle or sharp glass.

I'm guessing you're wondering whether the reduced rigidity is going to affect performance of the car, that is a different story altogether.

 

Noob if a 3 ton touareg rolls over on a fence stake, things will not go well regardless of what the roof is made of!

 

Ok, so PS or no PS with two wheels off the ground it seems there won't be any real difference.
So in the end I've ordered the PS for my new 4Xmotion... because, well, i like it

 

Ok, so PS or no PS with two wheels off the ground it seems there won't be any real difference.
So in the end I've ordered the PS for my new 4Xmotion... because, well, i like it

:clap: finally some sence, a sunroof is purely a cosmetic feature for the enjoyment of the user. But be careful when opening it in case the sky fall through it (or fence posts etc).
The roof structure is very different on a Touareg without sunroof compaired to one with it, different support bracing etc - if your vehicle is about to roll over the last thing I would be worried about is my roof falling in on me.

Enjoy your sunroof, I think mine is one of the outstanding features on the Touareg...worth the dollars.

BTW don't drive with your windows down just in case a stray stone is thrown up from a passing vehicle, it could hit you in the side of your face....could cause you to roll over onto a fence and god knows spear you through your roof.

Man there is some BS flowing out there in forum land :sad:

 

Pano roofs may cause cancers by the way so, as Flipper Dog rightly says, never mind the fence posts, it's the sky you have to look out for coming through the pano roof. Slap on the factor 50 every time you get in the car and don't forget your passengers . . . . . or wear a hat as well to be on the safe side.



Actually I started to write the above as a spoof reply for a bit of fun, but then I Googled sunroof and cancer and had to laugh that what started out as a spoof has a bit of truth in it! Wear that hat!!

Sun Safety in Cars - SkinCancer.org


And this is also a bit of fun watching several Touaregs being written off in safety tests.

Here's a T3:

 

I don’t know gents, maybe I am paranoid, but the Touareg’s panoramic roof, while is a cool and nice-to-have feature, brings me some level of unquiet (when I remember what is above my head). I am somewhat concerned about possibility of flying glass more than about anything else. I agree that the panoramic roof glass is more rigid material than thin still, but while steel possesses flexibility, glass breaks in million pieces which might create a serious danger. I am sure that the sunroof glass is not just tempered glass, it has layers of bounding plastic and who knows what else, but adhesives will keep “roof sandwich” intact only to a certain degree. I bought LUX TDI, thus I have the pano on my vehicle. I simply elected to blindly trust that this feature’s safety was thoroughly tested. Let us hope that this is a true statement.

 

am somewhat concerned about possibility of flying glass more than about anything else. I agree that the panoramic roof glass is more rigid material than thin still, but while steel possesses flexibility, glass breaks in million pieces which might create a serious danger.

The "tempered" print on all the glass on a Touareg indicates that when it breaks, it shatters into a zillion blunt pieces. Its called "safety" glass for this reason.

HowStuffWorks "How does safety glass work?"

 

Sounds like somebody with too much time on your hands. Out of the million things that could possibly kill me daily, the last thing I would ever wonder about is my sunroof. You stand a better chance of choking on food.

 

But....that one blunt piece might put his eye out! The upside of this possible danger to CC...he will be able to sue VWAUDIPorsche for billions.

 

Personally I don't get the facination with the Pano roofs and they put them on everything now. I would much rather just have a normal sunroof like I do now. I guess it is even one more reason to keep my 10 TDI until it dies... That could be awhile since I don't even have it broken in yet with only 25K on the clock right now and purchased it Nov of 09!!

 

It is useless to argue. We are entitled to have our own opinion - sharing of which is not a crime. I am aware how safety glass works and why it is called safety glass. Relevance of “too much time on hands” comment has very little to do with the conversation’s subject. It takes witnessing one accident to understand how blunt pieces of glass work… I did, and because of that I would rather prefer having steel roof than panoramic glass roof. Unfortunately, VW does not allow building LUX or EXEC without panoramic roof. The way I’ve interpreted original post was that it would be nice if someone would share panoramic roof safety information if they have it. Now, that would be useful.

 

Another reason why I got the Sport with the sans panoramic roof option.

 

Sheet steel or glass? Sheet steel or glass?

Let me think about the comparative strength of those . . . . for all of one nanosecond.

A tall 4x4 can flip once it is sideways far more easily than a regular saloon / sedan: it is one of the reasons why VW has gone to so much trouble with the stability electronics in the Touareg because the average driver probably wouldn't recover the car quickly enough.

 

Yes it is also the reason why Volvo decided to use high-strength steel for the entire roof of their xc90.

But, I think the discussion has been thorough enough to reveal that the OP was only ever interested in whether the car would twist as a result of 'less steel' in the roof, something I doubt is affected as the forces are parallel to steel provided and so would not make that much different. I also detect that the OP 'wanted' the PS, and he is just going through the motion of due diligence, gathering support for the case, and for which he is now satisfied.

I have a sunroof, a small hole, and I do feel it's a much hotter car to get back into after a morning in the summer sun than other cars without a sunroof, this is one of the reason why I'm in two minds about paying extra for a sunroof. When the day is nice, and cool, and I've just been on a long hike in the hills, having the sunroof open for the drive home (when the sun is down enough that I can't get sunburn) just completes the experience of the day so I can see the benefit of have a sunroof, and why not share the feeling with the passengers as well and go for the full pano.

 

If you were to get into an accident that causes the PS to shatter due to impact or rollover, that would be the last of your worries.
You may look fine on the outside, but the secondary impact (your organs smashing into your bones on the inside) can be more life threatening.

The T3 has been deemed to be "Good" by the iihs for roof strength.

Roof strength evaluations: Large SUVs

To measure roof strength, a metal plate is pushed against one corner of a vehicle's roof at a constant speed. The maximum force sustained by the roof before 5 inches of crush is compared to the vehicle's weight to find the strength-to-weight ratio. This is a good assessment of vehicle structural protection in rollover crashes.
Each model is rated based on our measured curb weight of a vehicle with typical engine, transmission, and equipment options. However, when the same model is available in a configuration over 10% heavier than the typically equipped vehicle, a separate rating is assigned.

Procedures for rating roof strength

More than 10,000 people a year are killed in rollovers. The best way to prevent the deaths is to keep vehicles from rolling over in the first place. Electronic stability control is significantly reducing rollovers, especially fatal single-vehicle ones. When vehicles do roll, side curtain airbags help protect the people inside, and belt use is essential. However, for these safety technologies to be most effective, the roof must be able to maintain the occupant survival space when it hits the ground during a rollover. Stronger roofs crush less, reducing the risk that people will be injured by contact with the roof itself. Stronger roofs also can prevent occupants, especially those who aren't using safety belts, from being ejected through windows, windshields, or doors that have broken or opened because the roof has deformed.
In the Institute's roof strength test, a metal plate is pushed against 1 side of a roof at a constant speed. To earn a good rating, the roof must withstand a force of 4 times the vehicle's weight before reaching 5 inches of crush. This is called a strength-to-weight ratio. For an acceptable rating, the minimum required strength-to-weight ratio is 3.25. A marginal rating value is 2.5. Anything lower than that is poor.
The Institute's test method is the same one that had been used for testing under the original federal roof strength regulation since 1973, but with much higher requirements. Vehicles only needed a strength-to-weight ratio of 1.5 to meet the federal regulation, which just recently has been strengthened, phasing in with 2013 models.

 

^^^like^^^

 

Ok, it's time to present to the table a new case scenario, and a very realistic one.

Two rebellious, nerd teens, on an overpass, decide to drop two 20 pound bricks. One of the bricks would be dropped on a Touareg with pano roof, and the other brick on a Touareg with solid roof.

What will the outcome be?

 

Two rebellious, nerd teens,

That's quite the paradox

 

How about an alien laser beam scenario? would the pano roof reflect the laser beam? or would you be cooked instantly?

 

Yet An Other Teen Story?

hmmmmmmm, let me think about that one...

Ah yes. Remember the story of those individuals (teens again? ) that took their little laser device, and skillfully aimed it towards the cockpit of flying passenger aircraft, on their final approach to landing? Surprisingly effective, and not cool at all, end result.

New laws were made and amended on that incident(s) alone.

 

In all seriousness I remember this being discussed when the Tiguan first came out with the Pano roof. Everyone was all paranoid and I believe that the end result was that the Tiguan With Pano Roof turned out to be stronger than without due to the Additional Frame that was built into the roof to hold the glass in place.
There was also a thread on Vw vortex of a gentleman that was rear ended by a taurus doing somthing insane like 100 mph, which caused his tiguan (with pano) to flip 5-6 times and the gentleman walked away without a scratch. As for roof rigidity, I wouldn't worry a bit. As for a fence post??? A knife can cut through the regular sheet metal. I wouldn't put too much faith in that at all.


Without the Pano Roof you simply have 1 hardened steel cross member on the roof, with the Pano roof you get a complete FRAME which further strengthens the roof and the sides of the vehicle in an impact. If i would choose which vehicle to be in in an accident.....??? Personally, I would want to be in one with a Pano Roof simply for the upgraded hardened steel frame.

See picture below.

 

Okay, okay. I like the pano roof to sit under, but only when stationary! Alright?

 

Okay, okay. I like the pano roof to sit under,

You're easily swayed ....

ST, I don't how you arrived at your conclusion, reading the words that accompany the pic, I read it completely the opposite, ie because they cut a big hole in the roof and made it weak, they had to reinforce it with a 'bonded, read glued' frame to support the glass and assist with side impact collision. They would not have to do this if they didn't remove the cross beams and cut a hole in it.

Looking at the pic, and using structural geometry of the two scenarios, it is night and day of the difference. In addition, if the hole and surround is 'stronger' wouldn't they do that to the entire car to make the whole car stronger but lighter?

At the end of the day, people choose a pano for reasons beyond structural integrity, but I'd like to also put it on the table that at the end of the day, steel is the principal structural material in a car, particularly for areas where a manufacturer has deemed it critical enough to employ expensive steel, ie hardened/high strength steel, there is just no way of looking at the situation other than that to remove steel component is to remove potential strength of a vehicle.

All other annecdotes aside, don't you also think that if the Tiguan example holds water that VW's spin doctors will be shouting from the roof (pardon the pun) about how great it is, and publish some analysis?

Also, don't you whether you remember or not, but back in the eighties sunroof (the flip up kind) used to be available at auto accessories store that people can self install by cutting a hole in the roof. In Australia at least, what was discovered was it weakened the vehicle significantly and was banned from sales. The manufacturers was up in arms and started incorporating metal frames around their sunroof kit saying the frame 're-strengthened' the roof ), more furfy, and the ban continued....

 

Well, I guess the thread has almost done the full circle. Teens with lasers and all.
Maybe I should have entilted it "Can an Alien abduct you through the PS?" or "If I'm a Vampire, should I be worried about the PS??!!"

It's been pretty entertaining though. Thanks for eveyones input!

 

My tin foil hat should protect me from the alien laser.

 

For goodness sake, EVERYONE knows tin foil is no good and that you need a handkerchief hat and an ice-cream to combat aliens.

[And, no, that's not a turd in his ice-cream, it's the optional extra chocolate flake to protect you from fencing stakes!]

 

I know of another major draw back to PS, i got a courtesy car when mine was in for a dead 7 month old VW battery and the courtesy car was a Peugeot 407 estate (brrrrr---felt like it was made of the plastic what is in the bottom of chocholate boxes). It had a PS which had been hit by a stone chip and cracked from front to back in concentric circles. A metal roof would have a dent and a scratch--something easily fixable

 

I actually wasn't a believer until I saw the crash this gentleman was in in his Tiguan, Vw was actually advertising the crash pictures for a while, unfortunately the other individual in the ford was killed in the accident so they took the pictures down. That just tells you how serious the crash was and how well the tiguan Pano held up..