anybody?

 

Got this again today. Dealer told me on last visit it was not a big deal. Almost out of warranty, wondering if I should extend it.

 

Extend it, let us know what the issue turns out to be

 

Hello did you ever find out the issue on this? I am getting the same code on my 2007 V10
P0257 Injection pump B Rotor/Cam: Range/Performance
P0173 Fuel Trim bank 2
P0170 Fuel trim bank 1
I can clear the codes however they come back on restart

 

lol, hello Stein, issue never came back until today again. came on twice. It was on in the morning, cleared it, came back after I replaced a worn out bulb. I do have extended warranty though

 

The code comes back almost immediately after clearing it and starting the engine. Off to the dealer on Monday. Its more persistent this time, maybe they will actually do something this time.

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Last time, the code disappeared before I visited the dealership. So I cancelled the visit. Code came back 2 days ago and hasn't disappeared. Now sitting in VW lounge for diagnosis and a proper solution this time. Last time it was under CPO and I did not need to pay money, but this time I have a $100 deductible. I am not going to accept a "code clear" as a solution unless its free. It comes right back when I clear it with my VCDS, so I hope they get to reproduce it.

 

Wonder if you are also having a cam go bad on your V-10 ???? What motor oil are you using and how hard do you run your V-10? High RPMS and deep throttle conditions are hard on the PD cam surfaces... edges at the top of the lobes should be equally beveled all the way around, if the bevel is worn away, so is your cam.... some lobes wear, some don't, and it creates an imbalance in your fueling among injectors... then you get uneven rpms per cylinder fired at the crank angle rotation sensors.

If you are gonna play hard in your V-10, you'll end up paying hard on that model too, in maintenance expenses and wear items.

 

I have been using the VW spec 507.1 oil thus far. Was going to start using Mobil 1 ESP starting next change. My driving style on the Treg could be described as semi-aggressive maybe....but only because I do occasional WOT pulls on the freeway to get rid of any oil in the Intake piping. Regular local road driving could be described as normal, but I am usually ahead of the pack due to the monster power. I have to try and go abnormally low on throttle input to stay with the pack sometimes, people in Raleigh drive in a very relaxed manner.

The only things common between all occasions this has occurred are as follows:

1) Warm and humid weather, just after a day of rain
2) Parked on an inclined driveway

Now these may not have anything to do with the issue, but this has been my observation.

 

OK, I feel like an idiot now. They just came back and told me my air filters are still factory original/really old. I assumed they did air filter changes when they do oil changes. Guess not! They said its supposed to be done every 40K miles, and I bought the car at 47K, now at 85K.....which kinda explains it, but doesn't excuse me. I hope that's all it was. They also never recommended an 80K and are just now telling me about it. I am now finding out what else was missed, if any, as part of the 80K like the air filter.

EDIT: The moment they changed the air filter and turned the key on, the code stopped coming back on. It was getting more and more persistent since its first occurrence last year. The air filter getting dirty over time explains that behavior. So I guess i am paying for this, not warranty. All things considered, its a pretty small bill, only $200. kaboom

I will keep this thread updated and documented should this issue come back.

 

OK, I feel like an idiot now. They just came back and told me my air filters are still factory original/really old. I assumed they did air filter changes when they do oil changes. Guess not! They said its supposed to be done every 40K miles, and I bought the car at 47K, now at 85K.....which kinda explains it, but doesn't excuse me. I hope that's all it was. They also never recommended an 80K and are just now telling me about it. I am now finding out what else was missed, if any, as part of the 80K like the air filter.

EDIT: The moment they changed the air filter and turned the key on, the code stopped coming back on. It was getting more and more persistent since its first occurrence last year. The air filter getting dirty over time explains that behavior. So I guess i am paying for this, not warranty. All things considered, its a pretty small bill, only $200. kaboom

I will keep this thread updated and documented should this issue come back.

And you don't do your own services?

regards
Drag

 

lol, no, all my time is dedicated to my track car. I don't have enough time to work on that car, let alone this behemoth. Sometimes I wish there were more hours in a day. A man can dream, can't he?

Nothing else from the 80K was missed, out of sheer luck. Brake fluid change was done 1.5 yrs back, cabin air filter around the same time and everything else seems in order.

 

Aircon service?

Cabin filter?

 

Yeah, all that was done as part of separate complaints earlier and were not needed again so soon. Actually the cabin air filter is close to end of its life. I just ordered another one. I can do most basic maintenance when I get the time. I still have all diff fluids from 2 months back waiting for my attention in my garage.

 

Have you cleaned the scuttle/plenum chamber drains - the ones that take the water off the front windscreen/shield down into the front wings?

 

I like it when you talk dirty. I will look into it, I did not do it.

TRansmission fluid R&R'd too?

yessir, 3k miles ago.

He needs a 5w-40 that is full synthetic and LOW saps for the DPF he has, 505.01 is not full synthetic, it is petroleum based. I'd try to find 12 qts of Mobil 1 Formula M 5w-40 on sale, it is full synthetic, can be found at dodge chrysler dealerships, Mercedes dealerships, pep boys and Napa auto parts too, hopefully on sale, buy a few cases of 6 qts each.

Still under warranty, gotta stick to VW certified standard, which is 507. That it's why I am thinking of experimenting with oil additives.

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TRansmission fluid R&R'd too?

 

How about fuel filter changes? About the 507 00 oil, all of them are 5W-30 are they not? I am thinking that a 5W-40 is needed for the V10. I am just sayin'. The 505 01 spec has 5W-40 and the spec is a lot harder to meet that the 507 00.

 

He needs a 5w-40 that is full synthetic and LOW saps for the DPF he has, 505.01 is not full synthetic, it is petroleum based. I'd try to find 12 qts of Mobil 1 Formula M 5w-40 on sale, it is full synthetic, can be found at dodge chrysler dealerships, Mercedes dealerships, pep boys and Napa auto parts too, hopefully on sale, buy a few cases of 6 qts each.

 

The 505 01 spec is not specific for a non- synthetic oil. If the oil, be it a Dino/synthetic blend or a straight Dino oil, or a full PAO SYNTHETIC & that oil meets the specs set forth in VW oil spec #505 01 then it good to run in an engine needing that spec oil.
There are many 505 01 oils that are full synthetic, take RAVENOL VPD for example. Made in Germany especially for the PD VW engines.

 

Say, my 07 V10 calls for either 505 01 or 507 00. I think that most have agreed to a 5W-40 is what is needed in the V10 because of the very thin cam lobs on the intake & exh. valves & the very high fuel pressure loads on the injector lobs. To much load on the lobs, my be a hit country song!
I would run the correct oil & not EXPERIMENT with additives. As you know new V10s are pricey. The 507 spec has no 40W available, it is all 30W. You should consider a 40W. Check your sticker under the hood & see if says 505 01 or 507 00, if so think about a good 505 01 full syn in the 5W-40 . Good luck & sounds like you did with an air filter change to clear codes. Priceless. PEACE

 

Sorry, had a brain fart, it is 507.00. My bad! I will look into the 505.01.

EDIT: I am confused. 505.01 is not an approved oil for my application from searching online. Why are you guys suggesting this? I am still under warranty for another 35K miles and intend to keep it. Is the 505 listed in the manual? I have to check tomorrow. Off to bed!

 

505.01 is the oil spec VW came out with to replace 505.00 when Vw came out with the pump dusse cam design. It is a heavy, thick 5w-40 motor oil designed to protect the cam surfaces. In 2006, along came ULSD, along with Diesel particulate filters that can get clogged with ash particles from high sulphated and phospated oils, like 505.00 and 505.01, so the exhaust treatment system on North American 2006 and 2007 Touaregs forced VW to offer a 507.00 motor oil, that they spec'd as a 5w 30 for newer,lighter 4 valve per head TDI motors, with much less valve train wear.... it is too thin for your PD motor, long term, for the drive train.

What you really, really really need is a true full synthetic group 4 or group 5 5w-40 CJ-4 rated motor oil.... something like Mobil 1 Delvac 1 ESP formula 5w-40 or Mobil 1 Formula M 5w-40 for the cam surface of your motor. Any 5w-30 is just not viscous enough to protect from a cam failure. Especially if you are making lots of heat using lots of fuel towing a race car trailer.

Go over to TDIclub.com and do a search on oils recommended for PD type motors, AND with DPF filters on the exhaust system... which was unique to the Touaregs of 2006 and 2007 with the fuel switched nation wide to ULSD from 500 ppm sulfur to 15ppm sulfur diesel fuel.
That is what makes it a maze, and complicated.... call it progress if you will.

 

So you're saying I should not have warranty issues even if I use 505.01 oil?

BTW, the code came back this morning, but it did not come back after clearing it. It rained yesterday and it is warm & humid today. I notified the dealership and asked them to make note of it on my account.

 

So you're saying I should not have warranty issues even if I use 505.01 oil?

BTW, the code came back this morning, but it did not come back after clearing it. It rained yesterday and it is warm & humid today.

No, I am saying your warranty will be long gone when your cams fail on either 505.01 or 507.00, and VW won't warranty them when your car is 7 years old. Go educate your self on motor oil needs for your very unique motor /year configuration on your V-10 TDI on TDIclub.com and ask some questions there in the fuel and lubricants section. YOU have a motor, a very, very expensive one, with sh*t design of offset lobes that are narrow for the amount of load on the valve train, as well as injectors on that cam that push the cam in opposite directions, one direction for the valves, the other direction for the jerk pump injectors, due to the rocker arm feature.

Go educate yourself by surfing on TDIclub about pump dusse motor design and oil requirements, then keep in the back of your mind that you have a special exhaust system on your limited year ULSD running V10 touareg, that makes the specs for oil to be met very, very critical.

Seek, and ye shall find...

AS much as I like VW's, Touaregs, and TDI motors, I would never, ever, ever buy or own a V-10 TDI in Pump dusse configuration.... it is far too problematic, and every single owner that I have ever had a ride with (over 20 at this point in time) , has been abusive in the use of the motor and throttle application. Just because 500 ft lbs is there does not mean you should be using it all the time.

The motor design is problematic, the whole car is problematic, too sophisticated, no one knows how to trouble shoot problems on them here in the USA, they eat tires, they eat brakes and they eat the contents inside your wallet maintaining them in a reasonable manner.

 

a lot of folks that want the 507.00 spec (which your vehicle requires) with 5W-40 use the Mobil ESP Formula M 5w-40. If you go the 5w-40 route note that "ESP" (Emissions System Protection) on the Mobil container is important. That said, I had an 06V10TDI and you can use 505.01 (which is 5w-40) but VW cautions that regular use of the 505.01 oil will expire your DPF early because the low SAP emissions system protection is not included in the 505.01 formulated oil so I personally would not even consider using the 505.01 spec., not even once.

Why VW did not come out with a low SAP 5w-40 for the V10 doesn't make sense to me, but they didn't

 

@Niner
I am mostly well versed in the implications of owning a V10. However, your suggestions of 505.01 are what threw me off. You seem to contribute enough, but I think you could have worded your post a little............less douchey? There is no need to be condescending.

And yes, VW will/should cover my vehicle despite being 7/10 years old, because I have an extended service contract through Fidelity which I have stated several times over, had you cared to read and remember before posting.

@csTDi
Thank you for that bit of info on the oil and it reflects my understanding of the whole oil spec debate in the VAG automotive realm.

Lets not forget, this thread is not for oil discussion, its for the specific diagnostic code posted in the title and its resolution. I will keep it updated in that regard. I will post back any and all of my findings as I go along with VW service.

 

As far as North America goes, a V10 tdi motor may as well be a Ferrari, in terms of it's oil requirements. This it completely a caveat emptor situation on a $70,000 wunderdiesel V10 motor with unique cam and injection design that VW and Bosch quickly terminated here in the USA... they ran with it for 3 years... 2004 through 2006... that's how long the PD design lasted in the USA...VW dumped it. As I said, caveat emptor.

I've stated what I know about V10's, pump dusses, and American motor oils. Slim pickens... do your homework before you jump in.

The PD is a simple system... if you are having uneven fueling problems, it 's a few things... PD injectors wrecked from running biodiesel in too high a percentage, over 5%, crank angle sensors fallen out or gone bad, or cam wear / follower wear, from running the wrong oil or abusing the motor at higher rpms and heavy loads too frequently, usually on the lobes of the valves, affecting breathing enough air and incomplete combustion, and lower rpms on that particular cylinder, which throws off the reading on the crank angle sensor, and it being out of spec.

Put it on VCDS and read what your fuel injection variances are on all 10 cylinders. Maybe think a little bit about what could cause your problems. Or search.

These are my observations... YMMV... but you bought a Ferrari, expect the finickyness and price tags for repairs that come with such an exotic SUV.

If you knew more VW history, from owning them longer, you'd know the history of pump dusse motors and their oil requirements. They all require a 5w-40 based motor oil. 505.01 meets that spec in all PD injector based motors.

The fly in the ointment is that VW put DPF filters on the touareg V-10 to meet DOT transportation pollution requirements with new ULSD.... VW put them on there as an after thought. It screwed you, the consumer,on suitable oils for both the PD design and the DPF requirements... they can NOT be met with any existing oil in the USA. 30 weight VW oil, all of them, wreck cams, 40 weight oils, most all of them, wreck DPF's. It's a catch 22 situation. One oil the ESP M, is not VW approved, but it is MB 229.51 spec approved, which happens to be a spec that all VW 507.00 oils happen to share with MB 229.51 approval also. So in a round about way, those are your options.... Wreck your cam with 507.00, wreck your DPF with 505.01, or try to save both with a 5w-40 MB 229.51 motor oil, and not worry about warranty coverage, it's over with on your 2006 anyways, isn't it? 5 years 60 k miles is it, correct?


BTW, being Dutch, I apologize in advance for my writing style,, not just this thread, all of them. Not my intent to come across as condescending, just seems to happen that way through the keyboard, knowing that Germans have high expectations of the knowledge of their car owners, and the service needs, something that kind of gets lost on most Americans.

Not saying you, that you did the tranny fluid tells me you are on top of your game, but the airfilters... maybe not so much???

My prediction is that your cams are worn, due to driving style, or injectors need R&R, due to too much biodiesel or water in your fuel... there are micro orfices the fuel passes through from the fuel rail to get into the injectors. too much biodiesel or water makes them rust up and clog up, and starve the injector for fuel to feed the motor under hard driving heavy fueling applications.


Drop your TDI off at the VW dealership and do not take it out of the shop until they fix the problem... you are too close to mileage to be out of warranty if your cams are worn out from 507.00 30 weight motor oil. Either way, they will need to pull the valve covers to inpsect the cam or replace damaged/worn/clogged injectors... so get a print out in the measureing blocks on VCDS for fuel flow per injector.... and the variances... I know it was in Group 13, Basic settings that I checked on VW ALH diesel motors. Find a TDI guru, log the readings, and get a printout in hand what the fuel flow variances are for all 10 cylinders, before you let the VW dealership touch it, and before you go out of warranty on the mileage on your V10....

 

I have extended coverage for 3 more years and 35K miles more through VW with no limits on how much they cover.

 

Shear is the issue so it will be interesting to see how you get on.

 

So the code kept coming back once every week since the filter change and the dealer diagnosed the next problem along the chain to be the MAF sensor on the driver-side intake path. It failed 3 tests consistently. Warranty is paying for the replacement, I just have to pay the $100 deductible. Total replacement cost is ~550 I think.