[volkswagendude]

I find it hits operating water temp extremely fast..maybe even faster than my v6 and v8 gassers. Oil temps are a bit slower but...I dunno, its REALLY REALLY good. Heck I've had all the engines and I find this one has em all beat hands down, by a long shot. I'd take my 09 V6 TDI over even an 08 V10. Every other diesel just feels agricultural by comparison....

Everyones conditions are unique though, I roughly know your commute so I'm curious to see how TDIs behave in the now very congested west island.

Yes! The coolant temperatures do go up fairly fast on the CR's. On my brothers 2011 Golf TDI, in not too extreme sub zero temperatures, it will in fact hit the middle mark on the coolant gauge after a mere 6 km drive after initial startup! Alas, it does not have an oil temp gauge like our Touareg, so I'll have to either figure out how to log oil temperatures(if possible) with the Vag-Com, or some other way, in order for this personal experiment of mine to be conclusive enough.

To you NickM, and others who might be just reading this, and catching on mid context, I'm not questioning the TDI's abilities, but it is more about who I am and how anal, freakish, (you choose the right word) I really am. I know TDI's potential quite well, fully appreciate that you can chip a CR TDI, like my brother has indeed done on his new Golf TDI, and be able to slightly spin the tires(with ESP off course), while still rolling at 80 km/h at a measly low 1900 RPM, as you merge onto the highway!!! I'm writing this so people may understand where I'm coming from here. This next sentence in the following paragraph, will be very important to understand the context of my debate, so read slowly and carefully.

If someone arrives to my house, and asks me to move my car to make room in my driveway, what does volkswagendude do?

1. Start the car, move it a few inches forward, and then run back in the house?
2. Start the car, and go for a 15 min drive(at least 8 km cruise), whilst everyone in the house is asking, "where the hell did he go now"?

The answer is quite obviously number 2. I can never be at peace, having started up one of my cars, to immediately shut off, knowing full that that there would be raw unburnt fuel in the oil crankcase. This is the precise reason I cannot stand leaving my vehicle at a body shop for days, knowing that they will cycle the engine on and on, on and off countless times at times, just so that they can move the vehicle to make parking space adjustments, during opening and closing shop times. For this reason alone, I immediately perform oil changes should any of my vehicles be unfortunate enough to have to undergo this at any shop.

Now back to TDI or not talk(pertaining to my case scenario). Ironically NickM, sometimes the roads are so congested here, usually in the morning not at night(since I finish late), that the engine oil in my V8 anyways will easily go to normal operating temperature by a long shot, because it has been sitting in traffic for 45 minutes, when that same 9km drive should really take a mere 12 minutes from work parking lot, to my house door with key in door lock. In light of what I wrote in my previous paragraph, there is no way in hell, my past PD TDI's would reach normal operating temperature(the oil not the coolant) in 12 minutes at sub freezing ambient temperatures, and consequently allow me to feel good about it .

My V-10 gets better mileage pulling the boat than my V-8 did empty. Plus you gotta love the turbin like pulling.

The V10 is wonderful, but I think this debate really belongs to the value debate, as per the described driving habits of the OP, V6 TDI versus V6 gasser. Like I said the V10 TDI is awesome, but it belongs in a league of its own, as I'm sure Dr.Piech meant it to be . I mean, once a turbine on it goes foul, and it surely will as you probably already know, negating engine drop, there go any fuel savings. My point on the latter really being, I would never buy a V10 for the sake of fuel economy savings. I personally believe that would quite simply be ludicrous.

 

[nickm]

I'm very curious to find out about the engine temperature. To be honest I don't have very much experience with diesels and this is the one thing that people keep bringing up when I mention going with a diesel. I live in Edmonton and my commute varies a great deal with a good number of short trips during the day. Judging from the comments above it sounds like from a value perspective the TDI wins hands down, I just want to be sure that it will be reliable based on my driving habits/conditions.

Like I said in my posts above, this engine is NOTHING like diesels of the even very recent past. It can't be compared. I have a CRD Ford diesel and the 3.0 TDI is light years ahead of that (smoother, quieter, quicker to warm up, no cold weather roughness).

Yes, common experience is that diesels suck in cold weather, and especially on short trips. Can't say this is the case at all with the 3.0 TDI.

I've been driving diesels since '91, you needed witchcraft and possibly a bible and holy water to get them started on a cold morning back then...TDI technology showed up and suddenly they had power and were better behaved, PD showed up and wow - what a huge improvement (though still annoying when cold). The current gen pretty much eliminated all the "bad stuff" diesels are known for. they are the un-diesel, diesel

 

[nickm]

To you NickM, and others who might be just reading this, and catching on mid context, I'm not questioning the TDI's abilities, but it is more about who I am and how anal, freakish, (you choose the right word) I really am. I know TDI's potential quite well, fully appreciate that you can chip a CR TDI, like my brother has indeed done on his new Golf TDI, and be able to slightly spin the tires(with ESP off course), while still rolling at 80 km/h at a measly low 1900 RPM, as you merge onto the highway!!! I'm writing this so people may understand where I'm coming from here. This next sentence in the following paragraph, will be very important to understand the context of my debate, so read slowly and carefully.

VWdude I know you're anal, which is good...its important to have this discussion and that it gets proved out vs. just being a series of opinions. I'll admit oil is a bit slow-ish to get up to temps (but much quicker than PD, even the big V10 lump), but water temps (as you've experienced) warm right up. No doubt that stuck in traffic for 45 mins oils temps will easily get up there.

The comparison I draw on is assume my V10 (PD) my Ford (CRD) and the V6 TDI (CRD) were parked outside overnight in sub zero temps...go out and start them. The V10 will start in typical diesel fashion, it'll be loud, it'll run a bit cranky until its driven for a bit then it'll settle into the typical diesel staccato sound. The Ford will start, it'll be loud, it won't warm up until driven, and will settle into the same staccato as the V10. The V6 will start, you will have a tough time telling its a diesel (in fact the sound of fuel pump whine will be louder than the engine), it'll run just fine right away and the turbo whistle will be the only sound you'll hear...no diesel staccato, no crankyness, plenty of heat etc.

 

[ameoba]

Hi Guys,
I'm trying to figure out if its worth it to pay the extra to go from the V6 to the TDI?

Your advice is greatly appreciated!

I went through this exact same dilemma when I bought mine. I was looking at used Touaregs, and REALLY wanted a TDI (still do.....). But, at the time I was looking, it was a $10k premium for a "stripper" TDI compared to what I paid for my V6. My basic requirements when I was shopping were Leather and a Tow Package. I ended up with all the goodies on it and wouldn't buy another one without Air.

Anyways, I did the math and for me to make up the difference in price would require me to own the car FAR longer than I will (~100 to 120k miles). So, I bought the V6. The FSI has loads of power and pickup. No, it's not the stump pulling torque of a TDI, but it's plenty - even pulling a 4000lb boat.

Good luck with your search!

 

[nickm]

VWDude I just had to run an errand so I ran a little experiment with you in mind. Treg has been sitting outside since yesterday, current temps are -6C according to the MFD.

So from dead start full water temp (90C) was reached after 4 minutes of running. At the 9 minute point oil temp was 80C, 10C off of full operating temp.

 

[volkswagendude]

Thank you for that NickM!!! Those are very impressive, perhaps even ground breaking numbers! No doubt, the internal plumbing and electronics gadgetry of this V6 TDI engine must have some nifty engineering features to significantly help speed up warm up times for emissions sake I'm thinking, but also the added benefits that go along with those virtues to what we have been discussing here. This is good stuff!

 

[Yeti]

Thank you for that NickM!!! Those are very impressive, perhaps even ground breaking numbers! No doubt, the internal plumbing and electronics gadgetry of this V6 TDI engine must have some nifty engineering features to significantly help speed up warm up times for emissions sake I'm thinking, but also the added benefits that go along with those virtues to what we have been discussing here. This is good stuff!

Dude, you know you want this V6 TDI goodness! Quit messing around and find yourself one.

 

[volkswagendude]

Dude, you know you want this V6 TDI goodness! Quit messing around and find yourself one.

No joke, I would, but in my strange and unique ways, seeing that thanks to the wife, I have been forced to consolidate all my toys into one car ownership, the only thing that really remains, is if someone on here was to chip their V6 TDI, and take me head on and beat me to the 60 mph mark :-lll. It is the literal last remaining thing, missing in my worlds puzzle, thankfully not an issue for most here, including the OP I imagine. Now if NickM can pull out one last thing out of his magic hat of tricks , my V8 is history, I kid you not!

 

[Yeti]

No joke, I would, but in my strange and unique ways, seeing that thanks to the wife, I have been forced to consolidate all my toys into one car ownership, the only thing that really remains, is if someone on here was to chip their V6 TDI, and take me head on and beat me to the 60 mph mark :-lll. It is the literal last remaining thing, missing in my worlds puzzle, thankfully not an issue for most here, including the OP I imagine. Now if NickM can pull out one last thing out of his magic hat of tricks , my V8 is history, I kid you not!

Well, Customspooling may be able to hook up the upgrade and make that wish come through. Think about it, if he can tune it for close to HP of the V8 and the V6 in theory at that point would have better hp to weight ratio then the V8.

 

[volkswagendude]

Well, Customspooling may be able to hook up the upgrade and make that wish come through. Think about it, if he can tune it for close to HP of the V8 and the V6 in theory at that point would have better hp to weight ratio then the V8.

This is a good point, although mind you I have bumped mine up to minimum 330+HP, given my consistent times, it is probably even higher then that. Trust me, many a night I have tried to rationalize through these figures, anything to give me the right excuse with new found momentum, to take the plunge to a newer vehicle. I've anxiously waited for someone to post up a solid vid of a chipped V6 TDI in "that other thread", but nothing has happened yet. My times are constant 7.0 second flat by the way O. I'm actually rooting for someone to break the barrier, so that I can get on with this.

Straying away from my personal issues, let's do a quick summary here as to where things stand.

1. V6 TDI wins resale value
2. V6 TDI wins in the cold climate department in both coolant heat up times, and cabin heat as well
3. V6 TDI and V8 gasser engine oil, operating temperature heat up times virtually indentical
4. V6 TDI better daily drivabilioty due to low end torque spectrum
5. V6 TDI lower operating costs in the long haul(fuel economy, maintenance...)
6. V6 TDI slightly slower at WOT to 60 mph vs both V6 FSI and V8 gasser

 

[Yeti]

I would love to help you out in that quest, but a tune is not a priority for me at the moment. I want to get settled in my new job and get a consistant pay first. Then I will look into getting the Customspooling tune for mine.

 

[nickm]

I got a sweet extended warranty deal with mine (I'm VW bumper to bumper to 120K kms) so I've got 70K kms of driving left before I start screwing around with tuning or whatever.

Keep in mind I just got out of a well running tuned V10 (you'll remember the 6 sec 0-60 run that nobody has matched yet) and I'm not bored with the V6. So while yes I might get beat at the stoplight grandprix in the V6 (the V10 was untouchable) I think mid range drivability is superior in the V6 compared to the V10

That said all the tuners are talking up 280HP out of the V6 TDI, if that's the case its AT LEAST as powerful as the V10 when you take into account the much lighter weight of the V6.

Maybe I'll find a higher mileage base V6 TDI to replace the wifes Jetta and I'll screw around with that one

 

[volkswagendude]

NickM, if you are ever in my area, I'd like to request a side by side acceleration comparison test, from dead stop, up to the speed limit. I need to know if I will take you by a mere 1 car length, or if it will be anything over 6. If it happens to end up being anything 2 and under, I'm selling my V8.

 

[nickm]

I might be in your area over the holidays...I will let you know!

 

[jonmacs22]

2005 V8: 7.84 seconds 2005 Volkswagen Touareg Specifications

2011 TDI: 6.9 seconds
http://media.caranddriver.com/files...i-vs-2011-vw-touareg-hybrid-comparison-test-car-and-drivertouaregs-may-2011.pdf

2009 TDI: 7.9 seconds
2009 Volkswagen Touareg TDI - Short Take Road Test - Car Reviews - Car and Driver

 

[volkswagendude]

2005 V8: 7.84 seconds 2005 Volkswagen Touareg Specifications

2011 TDI: 6.9 seconds
http://media.caranddriver.com/files...i-vs-2011-vw-touareg-hybrid-comparison-test-car-and-drivertouaregs-may-2011.pdf

2009 TDI: 7.9 seconds
2009 Volkswagen Touareg TDI - Short Take Road Test - Car Reviews - Car and Driver

You have to understand, that "media" numbers can be all over the place, especially when you are comparing different tests, done at different places. There is yet an other variable I just noticed. It lists the 2011 TDI at 6.9sec for the 0-60 time(sounds about right with its 8 speed transmission), yet the 1/4 mile time is at 15.9 seconds. The link you posted for the V8 shows a 7.84 sec to 60mph, yet in the same link the 1/4 mile time is at 15.78 which beats the 2011 TDI, even thoughthe 2011 TDI smoked it to 60 mph. It lists the 0-60 time for the 2011 TDI almost a full second quicker over the V8, which is like 10 car lengths over the V8, yet the 1/4 mile time is listed as slower??? :confused2:. It's not like there was only a .5 second difference here, where the one with more top end came out ahead in the 1/4 mile. I've never in my life seen a vehicle beat an other one a full second quicker to 60 mph, yet somehow come out ahead at the 1/4 mile mark, unless the driver flicked on a nitrous switch a mid point . I dunno, I could be wrong? My point is that people shouldn't compare times literally from one media article to the next, just like it would be wrong to compare dyno HP reading at the wheels on one dyno, and then compare with someone else's dyno reading 100 miles away. There are simply too many variables like altitude, driver error, wind condition, to not allow two very different tests to compare to one an other. Yet an other example, there are a couple media tests like MotorWeek showing a 2008 V8 FSI at 6.8 seconds and 15.2 1/4 mile. Obviously, the best thing to do would be to take all these vehicles at the same time, on the same day, same time, run them side to side. An other example of inaccuracies would be posted V10 TDI times. They are literally all over the place in magazines and on the internet. Some articles even have it at 7.5 seconds to 60mph, yet guys like NickM on here have done 6.0 seconds, which is 10 car lengths difference over some media sources. Some magazines like Road and Track did in fact post sub 6.9 second times as well, with a stock tune.

 

[volkswagendude]

Motortrend showed a 2012 TDI at 7.7 seconds and a 2012 V6 FSI gasser at 7.3 seconds. Copy and pasted below. Here is the link 2012 Volkswagen Touareg 2 - Motor Trend Magazine

Performance & Handling
Surprise, surprise but it's the Touareg Hybrid that's the fastest of the bunch. The 3.0-liter supercharged V-6 coupled to an electric motor produces 380 combined hp and 428 combined lb-ft of torque in the Touareg Hybrid. That makes for a 5.8 second sprint to 60 mph--and rather underwhelming fuel economy figures for something with a "Hybrid" badge on its flanks. The Touareg Hybrid is rated at 20 mpg city (3 mpg more than the VR6, and 1 mpg better than the TDI) and 24 mpg highway (1 mpg more than the VR6, and 4 mpg worse than the TDI). The Touareg VR6 was the next quickest Touareg, accelerating from 0-60 mph in 7.3 seconds. The Touareg TDI took 7.7 seconds to hit 60 mph from a standstill. Even so, we preferred the TDI over the other models due to its superior steering feel, and theoretical 700-mile highway range.


Coming back to my point. Motortrend has the 2012 TDI at 7.7 seconds, and Car and Driver has the same 2012 TDI at 6.9sec. Nothing like a blowout difference on the same vehicle with same engine and tranny to help one out to truly compare I say :roll eyes:.

....so I guess it will be up to NickM and I to iron out these dicrepancies once and for all.