Let's debate which fuel/engine combo is better for towing 4K lbs once per week or daily freight towing. I was thinking gas for the price, but I've heard diesel engines run cooler and last so much longer because of it. I'm not concerned about the louder diesel if that's still a thing. Need a Touareg soon!
Towareg
Gas 3.6L vs Diesel TDI for towing monthly
Answer the following:
What's the purchase price difference of the two?
How long do you plan on keeping it for?
What kind of yearly miles and towing miles do you suspect you'll accumulate?
What is the cost per gallon difference in the fuels in your area?
Do some math.
Both engines are more than capable of doing the "work". It will all come down to how much grunt you want from a dig or in stop and go or city scenarios vs just long haul on hwy at constant speeds.
What's the purchase price difference of the two?
How long do you plan on keeping it for?
What kind of yearly miles and towing miles do you suspect you'll accumulate?
What is the cost per gallon difference in the fuels in your area?
Do some math.
Both engines are more than capable of doing the "work". It will all come down to how much grunt you want from a dig or in stop and go or city scenarios vs just long haul on hwy at constant speeds.
$4.15 vs $6.29!. I don't see much of a difference on the used car prices and it's hard to tell with so many cosmetic and miles differences.
I'll keep it until it breaks or around 5-10 years.
Personal driving is only about 3K miles, and business towing could be another 3k miles.
Your point about city vs highway was unconsidered. It will be mostly long haul highway (4 hours via Appalachian mountain highways)
I'll keep it until it breaks or around 5-10 years.
Personal driving is only about 3K miles, and business towing could be another 3k miles.
Your point about city vs highway was unconsidered. It will be mostly long haul highway (4 hours via Appalachian mountain highways)
So do the math.
Gasser mpg is what?
TDI mpg is what?
Factor in current fuel costs times 5-10 years worth of driving. Which one looks more attractive?
Gasser mpg is what?
TDI mpg is what?
Factor in current fuel costs times 5-10 years worth of driving. Which one looks more attractive?
For towing the diesel is definitely the way to go. Me for example I should have bought a gas but they're impossible to find in Europe. I use it so little it's not worth it.
But for towing...it's clearly diesel.
But for towing...it's clearly diesel.
Another vote for the TDI, most diesels come into their element when towing as most diesels prefer loading on the engine. Hot diesel engine is a happy diesel engine. If I was towing monthly, I'd definitely get the tdi.
While the 3.6 can tow, it's not really an engine designed for towing and lack of torque shows on hills.
While the 3.6 can tow, it's not really an engine designed for towing and lack of torque shows on hills.
So I'm clearly with them, as I'm also a TDI fan, but without knowing exactly what kind of specimens the OP is considering, and what his DIY wrenching and fixing abilities are (or if he has a good trusted mechanic\shop that knows either one of the systems), it's hard to attempt to steer him correctly.
TDI will be more costly to both operate and maintain due to fuel price trends and complexity of technology involved.
If he only drives 6k a year as per his reply, all this is negligible.
However, I suspect that what he said above might be his mileage per month instead, which would translate to 72k a year. If that's the case, that is A LOT of driving, so he will not only burn up a lot more fuel, but will also incur a lot more wear\tear on components.
Given the fact that he wants to keep it "until it breaks" or 5-10 years, I guarantee that he will have emission component failures with either a gasser or TDI. He will also wear out HPFPs and injectors if he intends to keep it for an additional 360k-720k with either system. Assuming proper maintenance, the TDI will cost more when costly components such as DPF system\DEF system\Turbo\Injectors\HPFP need replacement. In comparison, the gasser will have less complicated and expensive components that will break and need replacement, while of course rewarding him with a less enjoyable towing performance experience.
I'm also assuming that whatever he is finding on the market will already have at least 100k on the clock.
But who knows.... without details and clarity, it's all speculation.
TDI will be more costly to both operate and maintain due to fuel price trends and complexity of technology involved.
If he only drives 6k a year as per his reply, all this is negligible.
However, I suspect that what he said above might be his mileage per month instead, which would translate to 72k a year. If that's the case, that is A LOT of driving, so he will not only burn up a lot more fuel, but will also incur a lot more wear\tear on components.
Given the fact that he wants to keep it "until it breaks" or 5-10 years, I guarantee that he will have emission component failures with either a gasser or TDI. He will also wear out HPFPs and injectors if he intends to keep it for an additional 360k-720k with either system. Assuming proper maintenance, the TDI will cost more when costly components such as DPF system\DEF system\Turbo\Injectors\HPFP need replacement. In comparison, the gasser will have less complicated and expensive components that will break and need replacement, while of course rewarding him with a less enjoyable towing performance experience.
I'm also assuming that whatever he is finding on the market will already have at least 100k on the clock.
But who knows.... without details and clarity, it's all speculation.
I just seen the mileage so i missed that, my bad. if its 6k per year I'd get the gas. It does complicate things at such a low mileage per year, I definitely agree with you on that.
Ultimately it's a decision you have to take into account things like maintenance items, fuel usage and overall wear and tear on the drive train.
However I have a 2014 jetta tdi with malone stage 2 and rawtek catted downpipe. I was told by dealership it wasn't the best choice unless you do 12k+ a year mileage. I completely disagree now the fix has been "fixed". 55 liter tank gets me 800km in the city alone and more on the highway. Not many gas vehicles that can achieve that. Fuel here is $1.80 per liter for Gas and around $2.00-$2.10 for diesel.
I also tow with it but only up to 2000lbs otherwise I need a brake controller. It could tow 3500lbs but I'd prefer not to because NA models don't come with systems such as T-ESP.
For a 2l engine it is such a underrated engine because emissions equipment just ruins its capabilities.
Ultimately it's a decision you have to take into account things like maintenance items, fuel usage and overall wear and tear on the drive train.
However I have a 2014 jetta tdi with malone stage 2 and rawtek catted downpipe. I was told by dealership it wasn't the best choice unless you do 12k+ a year mileage. I completely disagree now the fix has been "fixed". 55 liter tank gets me 800km in the city alone and more on the highway. Not many gas vehicles that can achieve that. Fuel here is $1.80 per liter for Gas and around $2.00-$2.10 for diesel.
I also tow with it but only up to 2000lbs otherwise I need a brake controller. It could tow 3500lbs but I'd prefer not to because NA models don't come with systems such as T-ESP.
For a 2l engine it is such a underrated engine because emissions equipment just ruins its capabilities.
I guess I am confused by what the annual miles will be…
I always thought around 12k plus miles per year for diesel to be better than gas. I had a TDI Jetta and on short trips the mileage wasn’t great because it needed to warm up and be driven a distance to be efficient. Was a great car (Jetta TDI). Also short trips where bad for it.
For example I live in a small town and while we tow and tow at 7,500 lbs a few times a year, 70% of our driving is around the place we live and that means short (like two mile trips). Both our around town vehicles are the 3.6 VR6 (one a Touareg and one an Atlas). We tow with a 4.2 FSI V8 and I try to drive that more out of town to let it really warm up. Whenever I drive I have to let the vehicle get up to temp before I turn it off and this sometimes means idling for a while.
What everyone else said: 6k per month Diesel and 6k per year gas.
Lastly, I have nothing but good things to say for my 3.6 Touareg it has been a great vehicle now at 13 years of ownership. Personally I would be scared to deal with the emissions stuff on a TDI and can’t legally remove them where I live…great motor but emissions kinda ruined it for us all in my mind for diesel in general.
I always thought around 12k plus miles per year for diesel to be better than gas. I had a TDI Jetta and on short trips the mileage wasn’t great because it needed to warm up and be driven a distance to be efficient. Was a great car (Jetta TDI). Also short trips where bad for it.
For example I live in a small town and while we tow and tow at 7,500 lbs a few times a year, 70% of our driving is around the place we live and that means short (like two mile trips). Both our around town vehicles are the 3.6 VR6 (one a Touareg and one an Atlas). We tow with a 4.2 FSI V8 and I try to drive that more out of town to let it really warm up. Whenever I drive I have to let the vehicle get up to temp before I turn it off and this sometimes means idling for a while.
What everyone else said: 6k per month Diesel and 6k per year gas.
Lastly, I have nothing but good things to say for my 3.6 Touareg it has been a great vehicle now at 13 years of ownership. Personally I would be scared to deal with the emissions stuff on a TDI and can’t legally remove them where I live…great motor but emissions kinda ruined it for us all in my mind for diesel in general.
I did all the math not too long ago and ended up getting a TDI because of the savings. There are a few things you need to take into account.
1) TDIs on average are selling like crap right now. Most people see the cost per gallon and they stop there, so sellers are forced to sell at a slightly lower asking price.
2)The MPG is wildly different when towing and to me that mattered as I tow around a 4000 lbs airstream every week.
I am going to use round numbers here to just keep things simple and I will use the 2015 Touareg because that's the year I researched.
The IRS pays out in the United States $.62 per mile to go against depreciation. This means that I needed a car I could tow and also profit from if I am going to make this endeavor worthwhile.
So here is my math
2015 Gas v6: 17mpg city, 23mpg Hwy. Fuel cost $3.50 in my location
2015 TDI v6: 20mpg city, 29mpg Hwy Fuel cost $5.25 in my location
Towing Gas: 10MPG (lots of research put me at 10 MPG at 65mph towing 4000lbs)
Towing TDI: 18 MPG (this is what my Touareg says at 65mph)
Fuel cost break down for efficent use while towing:
Gas: $3.50 Ă· 10MPG = $.35 per mile
TDI: $5.25 Ă· 18MPG = $.29 per mile
Profit from IRS write-off when depreciation written off.
Gas: $.62 - $.35 = $.27 per mile profit (better than my old land cruiser by far!!)
TDI: $.62 - $.29 = $.33 per mile profit
So for 3000 miles towing 4K lbs
V6 Cost per mile $.35 x 3000 miles = $1050 of fuel used
TDI cost per mile $.29 x 3000 miles = $870
Depreciation incentive (I am not an accountant, this is just how I came to my conclusion):
V6: $.27 per mile profit x 3000 miles = $810
TDI: $.33 per mile profit x 3000 miles = $990
I came to the conslusion that just based on a simple cost anlisys a the TDI was more profitable for me. Now based on duribility diesels in general just last longer. For towing, the TDI knows the trailer is there but it still has TONS of pickup! In our 2021 4Runner with a bullit proof V6 its not really happy towing that camper.
I hope this helps.
1) TDIs on average are selling like crap right now. Most people see the cost per gallon and they stop there, so sellers are forced to sell at a slightly lower asking price.
2)The MPG is wildly different when towing and to me that mattered as I tow around a 4000 lbs airstream every week.
I am going to use round numbers here to just keep things simple and I will use the 2015 Touareg because that's the year I researched.
The IRS pays out in the United States $.62 per mile to go against depreciation. This means that I needed a car I could tow and also profit from if I am going to make this endeavor worthwhile.
So here is my math
2015 Gas v6: 17mpg city, 23mpg Hwy. Fuel cost $3.50 in my location
2015 TDI v6: 20mpg city, 29mpg Hwy Fuel cost $5.25 in my location
Towing Gas: 10MPG (lots of research put me at 10 MPG at 65mph towing 4000lbs)
Towing TDI: 18 MPG (this is what my Touareg says at 65mph)
Fuel cost break down for efficent use while towing:
Gas: $3.50 Ă· 10MPG = $.35 per mile
TDI: $5.25 Ă· 18MPG = $.29 per mile
Profit from IRS write-off when depreciation written off.
Gas: $.62 - $.35 = $.27 per mile profit (better than my old land cruiser by far!!)
TDI: $.62 - $.29 = $.33 per mile profit
So for 3000 miles towing 4K lbs
V6 Cost per mile $.35 x 3000 miles = $1050 of fuel used
TDI cost per mile $.29 x 3000 miles = $870
Depreciation incentive (I am not an accountant, this is just how I came to my conclusion):
V6: $.27 per mile profit x 3000 miles = $810
TDI: $.33 per mile profit x 3000 miles = $990
I came to the conslusion that just based on a simple cost anlisys a the TDI was more profitable for me. Now based on duribility diesels in general just last longer. For towing, the TDI knows the trailer is there but it still has TONS of pickup! In our 2021 4Runner with a bullit proof V6 its not really happy towing that camper.
I hope this helps.
I pulled the same boat with my T2 (3.6) and T3 (TDI). The boat/trailer were approx 3200 lbs (ish). Hands down the TDI was better for towing - better feel, better mileage, better acceleration. I averaged 10-11 mpg with the 3.6 on the highway. I averaged 15mpg with the TDI. I also saw WAY better unladen mileage (around town and highway). I was able to break 700 miles on a single tank a couple of times with the TDI (all highway mileage - but not interstates).
Having lost my TDI to a deer (ironically while pulling said boat), I would also add that I have been SUPER happy with the Q7 for towing. Current boat is larger and heavier (4000lbs) and the Q7 is amazing - the 3.0 is a beast for sure. My T2 had air suspension as does my Q7 - it makes a difference for towing. I realize it's not available on the T3 if that's what you are looking at.
All that said, if you are looking at the dollars, the TDI is going to have higher running costs until the price of diesel abates. It's crazy expensive right now - but the 3.6 drinks premium, so you aren't running cheap gas either. Good luck in your search!
Having lost my TDI to a deer (ironically while pulling said boat), I would also add that I have been SUPER happy with the Q7 for towing. Current boat is larger and heavier (4000lbs) and the Q7 is amazing - the 3.0 is a beast for sure. My T2 had air suspension as does my Q7 - it makes a difference for towing. I realize it's not available on the T3 if that's what you are looking at.
All that said, if you are looking at the dollars, the TDI is going to have higher running costs until the price of diesel abates. It's crazy expensive right now - but the 3.6 drinks premium, so you aren't running cheap gas either. Good luck in your search!
@Dannyboy485 .... I know a few Yota guys who would buy that filter on the left off you and use it for another 30k or more
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