Should we be using a set time for the turbo to cool down before shutoff?
Why is there not a set turbo timer on the touareg? Not needed?
Why is there not a set turbo timer on the touareg? Not needed?
Turbo cool down period?
FLTouaregTDIGuy
21 - 40 of 57 Posts
How about you run some egt logs and get back to me on exactly when you should do a run down before shut down. Lets see if your EGT's even reach above....say 550F before your about to shut down. Unless your towing or doing a run through the mountains and you immediately pull over and shut off then there IS NO REASON to do a run down everytime you shut your car off.
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Yoffer, that's what was being said inthis thread until you made the blanket statement, and I quote, "Modern day turbocharged engines do not need a cool down period before shutting down." You gave no qualifiers, or clarifications. Hence the dialog....! And I don't believe any of the posters said anything about "every time" you shut your vehicle down.
Then maybe it was misguidance on my part.
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381 Posts
Ok I am learning and would love to have oil temp in my menus.
Does anyone in Florida have a
VCDS aka VAGcom?
Let me know I have a 2013 tdi would love to watch the oil temps.
Does anyone in Florida have a
VCDS aka VAGcom?
Let me know I have a 2013 tdi would love to watch the oil temps.
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As an ex employee of Banks Engineering. The safest temperature before shutting a Diesel Engine is < 400 deg. F. This is based on the farthest exhaust cylinder from the water pump. In the V6 TDI would either be #3 or #6. Reason for that is the coolant that travels would be at a much higher temperature on the farthest cylinder. So Banks Engineering always installs the EGT Thermocouple sensor on the farthest cylinder for that particular reason. Towing, average temp that i have experienced on my old F250 Powerstroke 6.0L with boat that weighs 5K lbs. on a hot 118 deg F Arizona summer climbing a grade of 20-35% @ 70mph can raise an EGT of up to 1200 degrees. The technique i have to speed up the cooling process when sitting idle is to raise the engine RPM to 1000 for about 45 seconds then 15 seconds at normal idle before shutting it down. Total of 1 minute. Higher idle can push oil at a much faster rate thus speeding up the cooling period. Average cooling temp during 1000 RPM idle on a hot 100 degree weather is 35 to 40 degrees per 15 seconds. Again all of this was collected during my short stint working with Gale Banks Engineering.
Gas powered turbo charged engines, in my experience, are known to have water cooled bearing jackets, but in the VAG group for diesels, none have water jackets.
In regards to breaking a motor or shall we say, breaking a new car in, VW has changed the manufacture procedure for final bore finish on the blocks of TDI motors, they are lazer honed, which melts down the high peaks of metal in the bore, and causes them to deposit, or erode, much like an alluvial fan, into the valleys of the micro finish of the bore. This leaves a very much worm like pattern of low spots in the bore, much like a meandering spring creek with ox bows on a flat plain, for oil to deposit to keep the walls lubricated for the piston and rings.
The piston and rings seat almost instantly and indeed nowadays do not need to be "broken in" with aggressive driving to seat them with pressure. What every enthusiast still needs to consider is that there are a ton of other parts to turn your attention to that do need to still be broken in properly, with mild or gentle use, things like your Bosch HPFP, or the gears in your diffs, and transmission, all need to be gently burnished in by gentle judicious use of the throttle so that they will smoothly wear in together instead of gouge.
Proper break in procedure is breaking in all the systems correctly, not just the pistons, rings and bore of the motor. This narrow minded thinking has damaged all kinds of VW's by enthusiasts spouting cr*p because someone named Pete on TDIclub says it's so. Mechanics want your car to break, it pads their bottom line, so think hard before listening to someone about following their suggestions, and do they profit from your errors in behavior and mistakes.
In regards to breaking a motor or shall we say, breaking a new car in, VW has changed the manufacture procedure for final bore finish on the blocks of TDI motors, they are lazer honed, which melts down the high peaks of metal in the bore, and causes them to deposit, or erode, much like an alluvial fan, into the valleys of the micro finish of the bore. This leaves a very much worm like pattern of low spots in the bore, much like a meandering spring creek with ox bows on a flat plain, for oil to deposit to keep the walls lubricated for the piston and rings.
The piston and rings seat almost instantly and indeed nowadays do not need to be "broken in" with aggressive driving to seat them with pressure. What every enthusiast still needs to consider is that there are a ton of other parts to turn your attention to that do need to still be broken in properly, with mild or gentle use, things like your Bosch HPFP, or the gears in your diffs, and transmission, all need to be gently burnished in by gentle judicious use of the throttle so that they will smoothly wear in together instead of gouge.
Proper break in procedure is breaking in all the systems correctly, not just the pistons, rings and bore of the motor. This narrow minded thinking has damaged all kinds of VW's by enthusiasts spouting cr*p because someone named Pete on TDIclub says it's so. Mechanics want your car to break, it pads their bottom line, so think hard before listening to someone about following their suggestions, and do they profit from your errors in behavior and mistakes.
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So niner what would you do for turbo cooling? Wait few mins every time?
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Used to be (1984 Mitsubishi / Dodge D50 turbodiesel and 1985 Camry turbo diesel) that even the best 'diesel' grade lube oils available - think DELO 30 wt - didn't do very well when exposed to hot (>600F) metal temps inside the hot section of the turbo WITH LOW OIL FLOW. Hence the instructions on both those vehicles to idle for 1-2 minutes after high speed / heavy load service.
The new synthetic oils REQUIRED for all modern turbodiesels are much more resistant to coking when in contact with hot surfaces. Experience has shown that no unusual idling is necessary. Thus the manufacturers don't make a point of that caution any more.
However, if FOR ANY REASON you choose to not use synthetic lube oil, a cool down idling period would be advisable.
The new synthetic oils REQUIRED for all modern turbodiesels are much more resistant to coking when in contact with hot surfaces. Experience has shown that no unusual idling is necessary. Thus the manufacturers don't make a point of that caution any more.
However, if FOR ANY REASON you choose to not use synthetic lube oil, a cool down idling period would be advisable.
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FWIW , if I'm coming in off the highway I'll let it cool and spin down for at least a minute before shut down, but if I'm just running around at city speeds, it's not so critical, so I will park, and shut it down after a half a minute or so, just before I exit the car. I consider this just a prudent, preventative operational procedure, to protect my investment, learnt from over thirty years operating and maintaining large marine Diesel engines and gas turbines, both aircraft and marine.
Yes, new synthetics are somewhat less prone to thermal breakdown as regular mineral based oils, but there are limits to their ole range too, especially over time, and with the fuel dilution issues that DPF engines can be prone to.
Don't forget, it's up to you, it's your car, and your engine. How you operate it will determine if its a long enjoyable relationship, or a short, expensive fling....
Good luck!
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After a good run, I would perform this very procedure on my ex 400+horse BMW, with custom built stroked engine, Wiseco forged pistons, Euro spec E36 M3 forged crankshaft, and of course, my personal choice turbo spec, a TO4E 60 Trim Bore/P Trim Turbine with 0.58 exhaust housing, all lubricated with Group V motor oil from Redline, 10W-40. No turbo failure ever, after thousands of km's, years of serious beating, and I mean serious beating.
Does the cooler running diesel engine, require such strict post trip, turbo cooling methods as mentioned by flat budget?
I'm willing to bet, only if you tow up steep grades or constant high speeds with small small inclines.
That said, common sense does go a long way.
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http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1007dp_the_truth_about_egt/viewall.html
http://www.bankspower.com/techarticles/show/25-Why-EGT-is-Important
Interesting articles to read about EGT.
http://www.bankspower.com/techarticles/show/25-Why-EGT-is-Important
Interesting articles to read about EGT.
Not sure where Yoffer is getting his information - and how he figures the turbo is cooled - but knowledgeable diesel folk who I trust insist that a several minute cool-down is essential for extended turbo life. I recently had a turbo seal failure in vehicle that resulted in a runaway vehicle on the interstate - the oil feeding through the blown seal actually accelerated the vehicle without my foot on the accelerator pedal - engine over-revved when I got it stopped and the key was out of the ignition switch. A scary and costly turbo failure – turbo, engine and injector pump – all transformed to junk. Take good care of those seals and bearings - let 'em cool down a few minutes.
I work at vw.
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No disrespect to you but VW told me my engine can't come out the top.
They also recommended I use 507.00 in my engine.
I know differently than both these "statements".
Don't be mad at us if we have a disbelief to what VW dealers tell us.
They also recommended I use 507.00 in my engine.
I know differently than both these "statements".
Don't be mad at us if we have a disbelief to what VW dealers tell us.
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You work at VW but you make the following statements earlier in the thread
EGT and turbo temp is two different things. The EGT may come down quickly but the turbo housing temp will follow a little while behind it.
The turbo can handle the heat and much more. It's the oil that boils away when the circulation stops when you shut the car down.
Then you also state this
My R5 engine is a modern day diesel engine and it's oil cooled only!
Not to be nasty but working at VW (part fitting) and understanding engineering (old style modifying and fixing and creating) is two different things.
Do not by any means think that working at VW makes you the expert. The collective knowledge here far outweighs the dealer knowledge. I'll put a wager on that!
Rather take in what is being said here and apply it at your dealership. That way you can make a name for yourself as a competent knowledgable technician. Most dealerships are being frowned upon because they show the mentality you showed here.
PS : What work do you do at VW?
I dont feel the need to explain myself to you. Im a tech and thats all you need to know. Theres a difference between part replacers and mechanics. Thats why we have tools to help track down a specific issue thats causing a problem, instead of just throwing parts at it. And even then, we have a tech line where if we are unsure of which repair route to go. But thats neither here nor there. Working at VW is a second job for me.
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This runaway was on your 2011 V6TDI?? All modern VW diesels have anti runaway valves in the intake air system. On my 2000 Golf TDI it was called an anti shudder valve.
What happened to that safety system on your runaway car? It should have closed the air shut off valve immediately when the engine started to climb without the ECU telling it to. So, are you saying that you did NOT always take care to idle until the turbo residual heat dissipated and THAT caused the seal blow out and THAT caused the runaway? What was the mileage on the vehicle when all that happened?
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A VW technician here told me to replace only the coupling on my R5 alternator, and I knew that the pulley needs to be replaced as well, but I did what he said.. Well he is a VW technician, ins't he?? Guess what, the pulley ripped of the coupling after few miles.. Made him pay out of his pocket for a new pulley and coupling, don't ask me how..
If I had any issues with mine treg, I would rather give it to 4ePikanini to fix it than any other VW technician.
If I had any issues with mine treg, I would rather give it to 4ePikanini to fix it than any other VW technician.
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yoffer, what 4ePikanini writes concerning many dealerships technicians, even the service advisors at the front desk, are frowned upon on here because they show a certain mentality and lack of knowledge on VW products themselves, like the Phaeton and Touareg, is the truth.
Now, if you truly feel strongly about your wealth of knowledge on this topic, and perhaps even others for that matter, and I'm by no means am I denying you have this, then this is what I suggest you do. Go visit and read all of the technical sections of this forum, answer as many of the technical questions as you can that various members are asking, particularly paying attention to the ones where a dealer visit has already occurred with negative results. Then, once people feel more comfortable(or uncomfortable
) with who you are over the course of the next few months and perhaps even years, and your reputation for car advice has some sort of reputation per say, then what I would do is, to come back to this old thread, and continue on with the debate.
Now, if you truly feel strongly about your wealth of knowledge on this topic, and perhaps even others for that matter, and I'm by no means am I denying you have this, then this is what I suggest you do. Go visit and read all of the technical sections of this forum, answer as many of the technical questions as you can that various members are asking, particularly paying attention to the ones where a dealer visit has already occurred with negative results. Then, once people feel more comfortable(or uncomfortable
) with who you are over the course of the next few months and perhaps even years, and your reputation for car advice has some sort of reputation per say, then what I would do is, to come back to this old thread, and continue on with the debate. 21 - 40 of 57 Posts
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