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VWoA - AdBlue system not covered under emissions warranty

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#101 ·
VWdude - adblue applies to VW, Audi, BMW and MB only, GM Ford, Dodge, Cat, Cummins and Detroit Diesel (as well as most people on this continent) know it better as DEF or Diesel Exhaust Fluid.

so If you type 'DEF issues', you'll see that GM duramax pop up right away...ford seems to have fewer issues with their powerstroke but they are still there.

That said, the issues with adblue/DEF do suck, but I'd rather drive a diesel with adblue/DEF vs no diesels at all..which is what we'd be in for if adblue/DEF technology didn't exist.
 
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#102 ·
Well adblue does increase fuel mileage by a couple of points I ain't knocking it. I'm sure the new Golf TDI would hit 50 mpg if it had adblue as well.

My warning of adblue and and these fancy fancy exhaust systems to meet emissions stemmed from VAG's lousy teething problem statistics over the last 15 years. 3rd year is the charm.

I'm curious how the "others" are handling the adblue(DEF) issues in their dealerships? Based On Siberian's theory, would it be with more success? :)



 
Discussion starter · #103 ·
ccrocket said:
There seems to be a belief by some on these boards that the adblue faults are of a sufficiently widespread nature to merit some action by VW, but do any of us even know how widespread the problems actually have been?...
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I don't think that's possible for any of us to know.

What is much less than satisfying is VWoA's response to my queries about this and other matter matters.

As well as how I like the vehicle, part of my decision process was the support and knowledge evidenced on these forums, because if I were to have based my decision on trust that VWoA would do right by me, I would never have made the purchase. The "action" I would like to see is one of trust-building, not a mass recall.

Time will give a better answer to your query - but what concerns me is that the Touareg is a relatively low sales volume vehicle in the NA market, with stable-mates in the Audi world, yet a number of pumps and other things have failed (like a need to update the flash memory?).

My question is more of "Why?" IOW, it would be more understandable to have pump failures on Honda Accords or somesuch that sell in the hundreds of thousands.

That's my 2 cents.
 
#105 ·
BB62 said:
Let's hope the 3rd year fix can be applied retroactively. What do you think?
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What do I think? As the General who had hoped for a triumphant victory in gathering the troops in this thread with now 75000 views and 43 pages later http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=234994&page=43 it seems that a few scattered battles have been won, alas..the war...

A crusade on the retroactive bit is worth pursuing for those who have needlessly payed out of pocket.



 
Discussion starter · #106 ·
volkswagendude said:
What do I think? As the General who had hoped for a triumphant victory in gathering the troops in this thread with now 75000 views and 43 pages later Who Here Has Written To VW About The BS Issue? - Page 43 - TDIClub Forums it seems that a few scattered battles have been won, alas..the war...
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Interesting!

No, what I meant was "Do you think that VW will have a new part(s) which can be installed in the '11 & '12's to bring the third year "fix" to the first two years of T3 models when/if they have problems.

Whaddya think?
 
#108 ·
nickm said:
.....If you look at something like adblue, this doesn't seem to be the case. Adblue is new and its "scary" because you're putting "pee" in the tank or whatever other stupid comparisons other people come up with....all the other automakers with diesels (ie: Ford, GM, Dodge, MB, BMW) are all seeing the same adblue issues, its just a new technology and of course a new technology will bring on a new set of issues.
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Adblue is "scary" in the fact that your $50-60k vehicle ceases to freakin' function when you hit "0" on the warning. This really needs corrected given the faulty warnings some of the cars are spitting out. Why not simply limit the max speed to 40mph or something, so that at the least, you can limp to a dealer?

I had one warning, and as many here have noted, I'm confident it was dealer "underfill" because they simply didn't know, or take the time, to determine what the max capacity is.

I agree w/ Siberian that a long-term, Best/Worst Dealers in the US thread would go a long way...every sale a poor dealer loses is a win for all of us.

Although, I'm afraid I'd be flying out of state on my next purchase ;)
 
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#109 ·
Str3t said:
Adblue is "scary" in the fact that your $50-60k vehicle ceases to freakin' function when you hit "0" on the warning. This really needs corrected given the faulty warnings some of the cars are spitting out. Why not simply limit the max speed to 40mph or something, so that at the least, you can limp to a dealer?
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The fact that the vehicle stops when you hit 0 is not a VW design issue, its a legislated issue. The LAW says the vehicle is not permitted to run without adblue. Every brand that utilizes DEF/Adblue follows the same laws and they all will not run when you have 0 miles left - be it a Touareg or a GMC sierra.

Its not like its a surprise, the warning gives you almost 2000 miles before you need to refill.

And if there's a failure in the system the LAW says it can't run...allowing it to limp to a dealer would cause excessive pollution. Again this is the case for any vehicle running adblue/DEF be it a Touareg, a GMC Sierra, or a large tractor.
 
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#110 ·
nickm said:
...Its not like its a surprise, the warning gives you almost 2000 miles before you need to refill...
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Well, that assumes the system is working properly. My first (and so far only) warning was a 750 mile warning. Still plenty but seems like something is amiss.

Although, even w/ the numbr of Adblue complaints on this board, I don't recall seeing anybody left w/ a dead car so far.

Understood about the law and applying to all vehicles...I'm curious though, how much more polluatant is released w/out adblue fluid? Is it really all that bad that you need to kill a vehicle vs. limiting it's functionality?
 
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Discussion starter · #111 ·
Str3t said:
Well, that assumes the system is working properly...

...I'm curious though, how much more polluatant is released w/out adblue fluid? Is it really all that bad that you need to kill a vehicle vs. limiting it's functionality?
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I did a little search after nickm mentioned DEF issues - and it seems we're not alone as far as problems go.

I agree - killing the vehicle is overkill. I think that other manufacturers go the "limp mode" route, which I feel is much more preferable.

Changing the subject slightly - have there been many AdBlue issues (like failure to thaw) in really cold weather?
 
#112 ·
If you're talking about "cold" weather vs "chilly" diesels are in a world of hurt of their own compared to gas vehicles which is why it was never an option for me despite the poor gas quality we have here.

siberian
 
Discussion starter · #113 ·
siberian said:
If you're talking about "cold" weather vs "chilly" diesels are in a world of hurt of their own compared to gas vehicles which is why it was never an option for me despite the poor gas quality we have here.
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I meant cold to the point of possible AdBlue freeze-up, not cold to the point of failure to start because of fuel (diesel) issues.

But, hey, don't those "Ice Road Trucker" people use diesel? :)
 
#114 ·
Yep and I don't want to idle my rig overnight all winter... upsets the dogs as they think they're going to go for a ride.

siberian
 
#115 ·
BB62 said:
I meant cold to the point of possible AdBlue freeze-up, not cold to the point of failure to start because of fuel (diesel) issues.

But, hey, don't those "Ice Road Trucker" people use diesel? :)
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There is a heater in the tank to prevent freeze up of the fluid. So this is not an issue what so ever.
 
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#116 ·
Yes, and it runs off what? The battery. Do I want further load on the battery by those temps? Diesels are just not made for my environment.

siberian
 
#117 ·
It actually thaws (doesn't freeze to solid ice) at 12F (-11 C) or so

www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/.../MB10033.pdf

and Touareg's have electric heater around the pump to "liquidize" DEF within required time from engine start. The heater runs ONLY when engine is running so there is no heating on the rest of the time.

18-wheelers use engine coolant but those have more severe duty cycle so there is more heat available than on these little thingies.

Who ever is bashing the DEF better come up with better way to control the emissions as there isn't many available.

Gasoline catalytic converters were same POS stuff on their first years and lots of folks blew up their cat's during the first years till manufacturers found the right way but it was what, some 35 years ago so everyone forgot that mess already...


In a way I agree Siberian, in a way I don't.

I lived further north than him (but we have gulf stream) so -30C was normal winter day and with proper arctic diesel and block heater we never had issues. Though on the 18-wheelers one tankful of crappy summer grade diesel caused us to purge the fuel system and changing fuelfilters (once gelly parafin fills the filter, it have to be swapped to new as "rinse and repeat") and doinf that -30C mornings wasn't fun at all.

From that standpoint Siberian is right, stock gasoline without any preparation and random quality fuel is safer on cold weather.


Back to the topic...

It's not suppose to kill the engine, running out the DEF allows to run the engine but it doesn't start again until the DEF tank is filled.

The main issue is the idiot cheapskate people as they have been trying to bypass the system and filled the tank with water etc cheaper liquid. DEF system manufacturers had to add sensors to sense the quality and type of liquid to prevent miss-use and to keep the system functioning to meet the emission requirements.
 
#118 ·
Again, my point is that at true sub zero temps like -50 or -60F I don't need something else to drain my battery so that I can be stuck in the middle of nowhere because in addition to the myriad of things that the VDub keeps track of now it has to power an electric heater not to mention the REST function...

Not arguing the emissions, I'm saying for MY environment diesels are far from ideal; not to mention price is way over premium gas.

siberian
 
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