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3.0 TDI tunes, power upgrades and turbo upgrades

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Discussion starter · #462 ·
yrktreg said:
Gotcha, that actually make perfect sense.

The one i'm working on should fit the bill with both more low end torque and high end hp.

You need to meet up with 04_STI sometime and see how his trans shifts compared to yours.
This is also a crucial piece of the puzzle IMHO in getting it shifting correctly again...
Click to expand...

I'm anxious to see what you come up with. I think if I went the 2872 I'd probably have it detuned for a smoother curve rather than peak numbers. 422 HP is awesome (and would require fuel pump upgrade) but if its not predictable (read: drive-able) what's the point.?


One thing I'm noticing with the dyno curves on most of the VW/Audi TDIs is a narrow torque peak between 2,000 and 3,000 RPM. I would think the desired torque range would be 1600 to 4000 for a production vehicle... sort of curious on why they look the way they do. My best guess is that the compressor geometry does this (or perhaps they only run them in the highest efficiency islands).




Trans tune wise, I'll have to look into that at some point. I don't quite understand how much authority and control the trans controller has over the engine. Is it possible to tune the trans after an engine tune? I imagine both need to be done to re-adjust the feel of the experience and for smoothness etc... I would think raising the shift points with a bigger turbo would move the engine profile back toward where the gas trans tune is, while the original TDI tune may keep me out of the higher RPM where peak HP with a turbo upgrade would be. Do I have this right? Or does the trans somehow sense adjust its shift point based on torque or change of RPMs?
 
#465 ·
NTDI said:
I'm anxious to see what you come up with. I think if I went the 2872 I'd probably have it detuned for a smoother curve rather than peak numbers. 422 HP is awesome (and would require fuel pump upgrade) but if its not predictable (read: drive-able) what's the point.?


One thing I'm noticing with the dyno curves on most of the VW/Audi TDIs is a narrow torque peak between 2,000 and 3,000 RPM. I would think the desired torque range would be 1600 to 4000 for a production vehicle... sort of curious on why they look the way they do. My best guess is that the compressor geometry does this (or perhaps they only run them in the highest efficiency islands).




Trans tune wise, I'll have to look into that at some point. I don't quite understand how much authority and control the trans controller has over the engine. Is it possible to tune the trans after an engine tune? I imagine both need to be done to re-adjust the feel of the experience and for smoothness etc... I would think raising the shift points with a bigger turbo would move the engine profile back toward where the gas trans tune is, while the original TDI tune may keep me out of the higher RPM where peak HP with a turbo upgrade would be. Do I have this right? Or does the trans somehow sense adjust its shift point based on torque or change of RPMs?
Click to expand...
The trans controls your entire driving experience. The engine sends the torque it is making to the trans control module. It then decides if it needs to shift or hold gears etc, based on that and the desired torque level. The tune I do now is the best of both worlds as it takes advantage of the diesels low end torque, but when you go WOT it will hold the gears to redline to take full advantage of the bigger turbo. With that being said i'm already working on a stage 1 TCM tune for vehicles with bigger turbos.
 
Discussion starter · #466 ·
yrktreg said:
The trans controls your entire driving experience. The engine sends the torque it is making to the trans control module. It then decides if it needs to shift or hold gears etc, based on that and the desired torque level. The tune I do now is the best of both worlds as it takes advantage of the diesels low end torque, but when you go WOT it will hold the gears to redline to take full advantage of the bigger turbo. With that being said i'm already working on a stage 1 TCM tune for vehicles with bigger turbos.
Click to expand...



I'm open to the idea of a trans tune especially if I do an engine tune and turbo upgrade (not in that order).



What puzzles me is the behavior of the trans. Truthfully I don't mind the current trans tune overall. But I've never driven a Touareg TDI pre-fix. My only real complaints are the hesitation of downshifting in D, the trans controller doesn't seem to know that the TDI has no go before 1900 RPM. I find my self often accelerating at part throttle to keep my shift points somewhat lazy so it up shifts at 3,000 RPM, vs mashing the pedal and hitting the kickdown switch and then being down shifted to 3500 RPM or so where I'm out of the torque band.



In S mode all is pretty good for me.


The only exception is in M mode it shifts about 500 RPM earlier than I want it to. Often I want to go right up to yelllow/redline before a turn and then let off, but it gets scared and upshifts (which I didn't command it to). So this would be one behavior I'd like fixed. The other behavior I'd love fixed (but probably can't) would be to just hold the downshift button and have it auto downshift at the next earliest opportunity. As it is now I feel like I'm playing a playstation game and have to keep tapping the down shift button until I'm finally in a "safe" downshift range. I'd love it if I could put the downshift request in, continue driving and braking and then it downshifts when the RPMs are safe, of course an upshift would cancel the downshift request. Or maybe it just down shifts no questions asked.Then I can learn to not over rev the engine and pick the proper downshift speeds (right now I still haven't figured them all out, despite having sport driven manual cars almost my entire life).




So with that said.... does your tune fix any of these issues?
 
#467 ·
NTDI said:
What puzzles me is the behavior of the trans. Truthfully I don't mind the current trans tune overall. But I've never driven a Touareg TDI pre-fix. My only real complaints are the hesitation of downshifting in D, the trans controller doesn't seem to know that the TDI has no go before 1900 RPM. I find my self often accelerating at part throttle to keep my shift points somewhat lazy so it up shifts at 3,000 RPM, vs mashing the pedal and hitting the kickdown switch and then being down shifted to 3500 RPM or so where I'm out of the torque band.
Click to expand...
That's weird. Because the torque is pretty FLAT way down to 1,400 RPM. I used to manually upshift my very similar BMW X5 xDrive d35 6 speed at 1,700 PRM, and with my newly gotten 2012 Touareg TDI at 1,750 RPM, and it doesn't go below 1,400 after shift, so I'm good to go! :grin2:
 
#470 ·
TheChunknorris said:
Here’s what my 2015 TDI Lux made today for a baseline run. I’m doing a Malone Stage 2 with all the DPF crap still installed.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that.. REALLY looking forward to seeing what a Stage 2 curve looks like.
 
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#472 ·
yrktreg & others,

First of all I just finished reading through most of this long thread and let me say my eyes are glassed over a bit...hahahaha! Awesome stuff though from what I can tell. Tiny background I am versed in suspension, brakes, etc... in that arena and basic bolt-ons, but there is a ton of theory here that I do not understand. But I tried over at TDI Club and they sent me this way... hahaha ( I come from the Subaru world, we have a 2011 WRX Hatch @ 292 WHP/ 300 WTQ, stock turbo and built IAG Stage 1 motor, and are planning turbo, injector, and intercooler upgrade tune soon, tuner is saying should put us around 350 WHP .... 3200lb car... ) Anyway i digress, my previous car was a MK6 golf tdi, and currently I have a 2015 Q5 TDI... and according to TDI club they are fairly rare.

... My vehicle is post fix, and I did not own it pre-fix at all. I currently have the malone Flashzilla 3... just waiting a week or two and will be ordering the Stage 2 tune w/ no deletes.
I live in Massachusetts so DPF = required. I'm super interested if what you are developing here, could work for me. I know my goals are basically what has been talked about here 330 - 340.... I know the Malone tune is supposed to put it around 305... so while spending on a full turbo upgrade is an expensive way to get 30hp... i don't really care.... hahahaha I was also looking at doing the darkside intercooler, and not sure if I'd need their metering valve upgrade.

Secondary Question - This TCM tune you keep referencing - Would it work for my vehicle as well? I'll search for the thread but its pretty daunting to read an 84 page thread after just have read a 48 page.... HAHAHAHA!

But either way... any info you could provide would be much appreciated.
 
#474 ·
TurboABA said:
Why the EFFFFF is the TQ coming in so late? It's supposed to arrive like 300-400rpm sooner! FFS.... no wonder we all feel gutless post fix.
Click to expand...


The tuner showed me a run on a diesel BMW X5 and it had a torque map similar to what you just described. Hopefully there will be an improvement early in the band with the Stage 2. I’ll also do the TCM upgrade as well.
 
Discussion starter · #475 ·
TurboABA said:
Why the EFFFFF is the TQ coming in so late? It's supposed to arrive like 300-400rpm sooner! FFS.... no wonder we all feel gutless post fix.
Click to expand...
According to that graph peak torque only happens from 2300 to 2600 RPM and it fades quickly. The lack of torque on the low end is what I experience as lag. Hmmm... so they de-tuned the turbo response for emissions compliance (well that's no fun).

I'll be very interested to see how the post tune looks.


Also pretty impressed to see a true 240 (or there abouts) HP at the wheels.
 
#476 ·
TheChunknorris said:
TurboABA said:
Why the EFFFFF is the TQ coming in so late? It's supposed to arrive like 300-400rpm sooner! FFS.... no wonder we all feel gutless post fix.
Click to expand...


The tuner showed me a run on a diesel BMW X5 and it had a torque map similar to what you just described. Hopefully there will be an improvement early in the band with the Stage 2. I’ll also do the TCM upgrade as well.
Click to expand...
My brother just got a 2015 X5 Diesel. And while I haven't been in the passenger seat of my car his feels like it has way broader powerband than my 2012 TDI.
 
#477 ·
kril89 said:
My brother just got a 2015 X5 Diesel. And while I haven't been in the passenger seat of my car his feels like it has way broader powerband than my 2012 TDI.
Click to expand...



BMW diesels have way more options and support. I have no idea why, but it seems like the Euro stuff (parts and information) gets over here easier.
 
#478 ·
Built4Sin said:
kril89 said:
My brother just got a 2015 X5 Diesel. And while I haven't been in the passenger seat of my car his feels like it has way broader powerband than my 2012 TDI.
Click to expand...



BMW diesels have way more options and support. I have no idea why, but it seems like the Euro stuff (parts and information) gets over here easier.
Click to expand...
Well the X5 is made in the USA so there is that haha
 
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