Club Touareg Forum banner
12,141 - 12,160 of 13,153 Posts
Seriously?...Jesus, people need to quit whining. You get to drive a car you love, you're getting thousands of dollars back, and you get an extended warranty on something VW previously wouldn't warranty because they were unscrupulous bastards.

Stabone, I've been on my high horse about this since day one, complaining as loudly as anyone. I've come around to exactly this position, which you have articulated perfectly. They were unscrupulous bastards who deserved what they got, and the punishment came largely in the form of a windfall to us, in cash and warranty. Yours is a plain-spoken reminder of that.

I'm certain I would feel differently if i was looking to find a way out of the Touareg and into something else. But, in anticipation of a possible buy-back, I've been looking. I would have received $53,xxx for mine. Even with adding another $10-15k, I wasn't overwhelmed. Among loosely comparable SUVs, I still like Touareg best. Rover/Jaguar SUVs are nice. So are MB/BMW/Volvo/VAG options. Drove some nice US-badged offerings, and Asian too. I'm sure I'd be perfectly fine in any of a number of them. But other than moving up from a 2014 to a 2018 with an odometer reading of zero and a fresh factory warranty there was no real attraction to it compared to the Touareg I have. My Touareg just feels screwed together better and tighter than anything you can buy today at the price point. It feels overbuilt in the best possible way.
 
If I choose to delay my "fix" beyond when 85% of TDI's are compliant or off the road, does VW have the right to deny me a fix and the final payment because they met CARB/EPA's goal?
VW must offer the fix for Gen 2 vehicles (but not the payment) indefinitely (Sec 6.2, Doc 3228 ). VW meeting the 85% compliance rate does not change this requirement.

You are eligible for the payment as long as you file a claims application 120 days before the Program End Date, and then have the repair performed. The Program End Date (May 17, 2019) is two years after the Effective Date (May 17, 2017 - the date the Order was entered). So, doing the math, the final date to file a claim to receive payment would be approximately January 17, 2019. VW is required to provide us with a notice of the actual final date to file a claim. But I wouldn't wait until the last day.
 
Seriously? How often do you fill your wiper fluid? You'll fill your DEF about the same. And if you can't make it to the dealer, it's twelve bucks at Wal-Mart.

Jesus, people need to quit whining. You get to drive a car you love, you're getting thousands of dollars back, and you get an extended warranty on something VW previously wouldn't warranty because they were unscrupulous bastards.
So you think washer fluid and VW's "complimentary" AdBlue maintenance are on the same level? I don't need to take my car to the dealership for washer fluid, and I don't need to take crates full of work materials out of trunk to refill the washer fluid. I drive about 25,000 miles a year. I don't wish to visit my dealer every 2 or 3 months, being sure to empty my work gear into my garage first. So I'll end up doing it myself as I always have. Call it whining if you will, but it's a legitimate inconvenience. If it wasn't perceived as such, VW wouldn't have tried to stretch the intervals to 10k miles, would they?
Yes, it's really not that big a deal. Go to your dealer once every X months when it's convenient for you, get a case of bottles, and fill it up at your convenience in your own garage. Problem solved.

If your trunk is perpetually full of stuff, it sounds like it will never be convenient, so perhaps the Touareg TDI isn't for you.

If the cost vs. a free service is a concern, perhaps a $50k+ diesel SUV isn't for you.
 
Yes, it's really not that big a deal. Go to your dealer once every X months when it's convenient for you, get a case of bottles, and fill it up at your convenience in your own garage. Problem solved.

If your trunk is perpetually full of stuff, it sounds like it will never be convenient, so perhaps the Touareg TDI isn't for you.

If the cost vs. a free service is a concern, perhaps a $50k+ diesel SUV isn't for you.
The cost isn't the problem, it's the inconvenience of going to the dealership. I thought I made that clear. So in my particular case, the free AdBlue doesn't mean ****. I need to reload/repack my gear in my garage from time to time, and that's when I service it myself. I can do it in ten minutes. Why would I waste a couple hours going to the dealership to save a few bucks? And no, I don't believe for one minute VW will give me an unlimited supply to add at my convenience.

In many ways, the Touareg was the perfect vehicle for me. I'm a road warrior, so the range and long service intervals were key benefits, and the torque handled the weight of my gear as if it wasn't even there. The size is ideal, and I get a luxury level ride without the pretentious badge, which is a disadvantage for me. I don't want a luxury badge -- not because I can't afford it, but because it sends the wrong message to my clients. Otherwise, I'd already have a Range Rover Sport Td6. And not that it's any of your business, but yes ... I can afford a Range Rover.

I'll say it one more time as clear as I can ... I am NOT upset about the dollar amount of the settlement. I'm not even terribly upset about the DEF fluid. That's a relatively minor inconvenience. I'm angry, actually bitter is a better word, because Gen 2 owners got a bad deal all around. We continue to be held hostage to our vehicles. We can't sell or trade until the repair is made. (Well, technically we can, but not without walking away from half the settlement, and not without taking a bath on price.) We still don't know when the repair will be available. And by the time we can finally sell or trade, we'll be competing against VAG dealers looking to unload their unsold inventory, plus the other speculators who have been hoarding TDI's in hopes of a buy-back. And of course we don't know exactly how performance will be impacted, although we absolutely do know with 100% certainty that it won't improve. We should have been offered a buyback. If the court didn't mandate it, VW should have stepped up and offered it voluntarily. If VW had offered to buy my car, I would almost certainly have remained in the VAG family. I am a very principled person myself, so doing the right thing goes a long way with me.

If you drive 10k miles a year, I can understand why you might not care. You have options. You can ride it out, see how things go, maybe drive your car for another 3, 5 or even 10 years. By the time you sell, demand could seriously outstrip supply. In the meantime, you get a nice fat cash windfall and an extended warranty. I'm at 80k piling on miles at a rate of 25k a year. We all know the Touareg is not a vehicle you want to be selling with high miles. I had hoped to get another Touareg TDI, or something else in the VAG family. But I'll drive a Yugo before I'll buy another VAG brand vehicle. If I knew then what I know now, I would have sold my car immediately following the announcement.
 
Gen 2 owners got a bad deal all around. We continue to be held hostage to our vehicles. We can't sell or trade until the repair is made. (Well, technically we can, but not without walking away from half the settlement, and not without taking a bath on price.) We still don't know when the repair will be available. And by the time we can finally sell or trade, we'll be competing against VAG dealers looking to unload their unsold inventory, plus the other speculators who have been hoarding TDI's in hopes of a buy-back. And of course we don't know exactly how performance will be impacted, although we absolutely do know with 100% certainty that it won't improve. We should have been offered a buyback. If the court didn't mandate it, VW should have stepped up and offered it voluntarily. If VW had offered to buy my car, I would almost certainly have remained in the VAG family.

THIS.
 
the other speculators who have been hoarding TDI's in hopes of a buy-back.
This is justice. While there are victims in this saga, including owners (but they are compensated anyway) and diesel enthusiasts who will not see another diesel in NA for a long time, there is something about speculators taking financial advantage of an environmental violation rubs me the wrong way.

Also, I don't think resales is a concern. Dealers have been selling the 4-cylinder history with no discounts other than factory rebates, and they are selling like hotcakes.
 
Also, I don't think resales is a concern. Dealers have been selling the 4-cylinder history with no discounts other than factory rebates, and they are selling like hotcakes.
Those are brand new and factory-warranted with a $5k rebate, and they're selling into a segment in which the majority of pre-owned models were recently taken off the market via the buyback. How are owners of high mileage pre-owned samples making out in trade or private sale? Who knows, right? I mean, if you had a high-mileage sample you didn't want, you almost certainly took advantage of the buyback. Gen 2 owners don't have that luxury. And don't forget, unlike 2.0L TDI's, the Touareg TDI wasn't in demand before diesel became a dirty word.
 
It is correct thinking that all the TDI owners should have the buy back option. This is the one big issue that the court missed.

I see a lot of similarity of VW of 2017 and Sears of 1992.

-Both are big lumbering business giants.
-Both define a large portion of the economic segment they exist in.
-Both are not doing a great job of watching their core business.
-Both are looking for the next hot thing to move into.

Also, both are very willing to eternally p*** off a customer, for they have so many customers that they can not imagine the time that customers could be lacking.

I only point that out since this strategy did not seem to work out the last time.
 
If VW had offered to buy my car, I would almost certainly have remained in the VAG family. I am a very principled person myself, so doing the right thing goes a long way with me.
As I posted previously, I'm fully on board with this sentiment. We Gen2 owners got hosed in this deal, at least relative to the other 3.0s and all the 2.0s. I want to say I'll never buy another VAG family vehicle again. In truth, though, despite my antipathy toward VAG, someday I'll need to replace the Touareg - and if a VAG offering is as superior to its competition as was Touareg TDI, I'll consider it. I'd rather have a terrific product from VAG's descendants than a marginal product from a more virtuous multinational global corporate entity (ha!).
 
I have a business to run. Time is money. Plus, it's inconvenient. I'm a half hour from my dealer, and my car is typically full of literature and samples. That's the main reason I maintain my own AdBlue - so I can top off when it's convenient for me. There is nothing convenient about an extra trip to the dealership between services. I'll most likely continue maintaining it myself to avoid the hassle. Either way it's going to cost me.
I'm more than an hour from a very poor dealership, I'm hoping that I can work out a deal for a jug to take home. Guess we will see.

So you think washer fluid and VW's "complimentary" AdBlue maintenance are on the same level? I don't need to take my car to the dealership for washer fluid, and I don't need to take crates full of work materials out of trunk to refill the washer fluid. I drive about 25,000 miles a year. I don't wish to visit my dealer every 2 or 3 months, being sure to empty my work gear into my garage first. So I'll end up doing it myself as I always have. Call it whining if you will, but it's a legitimate inconvenience. If it wasn't perceived as such, VW wouldn't have tried to stretch the intervals to 10k miles, would they?
Yup!

Finally turned in my 2011 on Friday. Waiting on email with EFT. Mine had a rebuilt title, but I bought it over 5 years ago like that, just had to wait longer for them to get a process in place. Sad to see it go.
You are the first that I have heard with a settlement on a rebuilt 3.0 Title. When did you first submit your package and was your vehicle ever considered ineligible?

Thanks.
 
I have a business to run. Time is money. Plus, it's inconvenient. I'm a half hour from my dealer, and my car is typically full of literature and samples. That's the main reason I maintain my own AdBlue - so I can top off when it's convenient for me. There is nothing convenient about an extra trip to the dealership between services. I'll most likely continue maintaining it myself to avoid the hassle. Either way it's going to cost me.
I'm more than an hour from a very poor dealership, I'm hoping that I can work out a deal for a jug to take home. Guess we will see.

So you think washer fluid and VW's "complimentary" AdBlue maintenance are on the same level? I don't need to take my car to the dealership for washer fluid, and I don't need to take crates full of work materials out of trunk to refill the washer fluid. I drive about 25,000 miles a year. I don't wish to visit my dealer every 2 or 3 months, being sure to empty my work gear into my garage first. So I'll end up doing it myself as I always have. Call it whining if you will, but it's a legitimate inconvenience. If it wasn't perceived as such, VW wouldn't have tried to stretch the intervals to 10k miles, would they?
Yup!

Finally turned in my 2011 on Friday. Waiting on email with EFT. Mine had a rebuilt title, but I bought it over 5 years ago like that, just had to wait longer for them to get a process in place. Sad to see it go.
You are the first that I have heard with a settlement on a rebuilt 3.0 Title. When did you first submit your package and was your vehicle ever considered ineligible?

Thanks.
I submitted my info th first day the portal was up and running, around 10am. Mine was never considered ineligible, there was just a long wait time, which they kept telling me was that they hadn't had a process in place yet. Then one day about a month ago I got the final okay, uploaded remainder of info and scheduled my day. They didn't think twice about it at the scheduled closing appt. I owned mine as rebuilt years before this ever came out, I wasn't trying to profit off of it. I think that's where the issue some people are having comes from. From what I have read, I was really nervous they would deny me but thy are only denying people who bought them after it was known there were issues. Seems like a lot of people were buying 4 cyl just to sell them back and make money. I think they are trying to stop that now.
 
"Mine was never considered ineligible, there was just a long wait time, which they kept telling me was that they hadn't had a process in place yet."

Reading this thread makes me feel a bit better. I am a Gen 1 owner, 2012 (built 11/11), and the fact that I am in limbo between VoA and VW of Canada with nothing to go on, other than "sit and wait!" since submitting my US online claim in March 2017, is chafing. Seems, all US T'regs currently registered in Canada have been pawned off to VW of Canada to deal with. VW of Canada is conspicuously quiet and always points to the US EPA proceedings. I finally wrangled a statement like the above out of them that says they lack a process. I think I dislike the fact that I cannot do with my property as I please (without incurring some disadvantage). VW, GET ON WITH IT !!
 
"Mine was never considered ineligible, there was just a long wait time, which they kept telling me was that they hadn't had a process in place yet."

Reading this thread makes me feel a bit better. I am a Gen 1 owner, 2012 (built 11/11), and the fact that I am in limbo between VoA and VW of Canada with nothing to go on, other than "sit and wait!" since submitting my US online claim in March 2017, is chafing. Seems, all US T'regs currently registered in Canada have been pawned off to VW of Canada to deal with. VW of Canada is conspicuously quiet and always points to the US EPA proceedings. I finally wrangled a statement like the above out of them that says they lack a process. I think I dislike the fact that I cannot do with my property as I please (without incurring some disadvantage). VW, GET ON WITH IT !!
Reading the TDI Club thread on this topic it seems like VW wants a clear decision tree for not only accepting / denying branded title vehicles, but also how restitution flows to previous owners even if they didn't know they could submit a claim. The restitution piece I think is nuts and a bit of an over reach.

The other goal that I think VW is trying to achieve is having to buy back cars brought back from the dead. I could see ze Germans getting into a lather over this point. Hope my Treg fits in the right bucket as it was totaled some time in the spring of 2015 and sold by Copart in August 2015 to a dealer. Cutting it close...
 
The consent decree was meant to force both VW and the owners to chose "fix." Additionally, VW will do the fix it the tdi is at the dealer for any reason. The only way to avoid it is to never visit.

If nothing else, odds are you will be debating getting the adblue or hpfp fixed for free vs paying for those fixes at an independent.

What we really needed was a larger adblue tank, so that you should make 10k on tank before needing a refill.

We have plenty of independent German service shops in Madison, but I like the service at Zimbrick VW in Middleton. I do not plan on doing the fix until I’m ready to trade. You would think the dealer would have to have authorization for something so major??
 
Yes, it's really not that big a deal. Go to your dealer once every X months when it's convenient for you, get a case of bottles, and fill it up at your convenience in your own garage. Problem solved.

If your trunk is perpetually full of stuff, it sounds like it will never be convenient, so perhaps the Touareg TDI isn't for you.

If the cost vs. a free service is a concern, perhaps a $50k+ diesel SUV isn't for you.
The cost isn't the problem, it's the inconvenience of going to the dealership. I thought I made that clear. So in my particular case, the free AdBlue doesn't mean ****. I need to reload/repack my gear in my garage from time to time, and that's when I service it myself. I can do it in ten minutes. Why would I waste a couple hours going to the dealership to save a few bucks? And no, I don't believe for one minute VW will give me an unlimited supply to add at my convenience.

In many ways, the Touareg was the perfect vehicle for me. I'm a road warrior, so the range and long service intervals were key benefits, and the torque handled the weight of my gear as if it wasn't even there. The size is ideal, and I get a luxury level ride without the pretentious badge, which is a disadvantage for me. I don't want a luxury badge -- not because I can't afford it, but because it sends the wrong message to my clients. Otherwise, I'd already have a Range Rover Sport Td6. And not that it's any of your business, but yes ... I can afford a Range Rover.

I'll say it one more time as clear as I can ... I am NOT upset about the dollar amount of the settlement. I'm not even terribly upset about the DEF fluid. That's a relatively minor inconvenience. I'm angry, actually bitter is a better word, because Gen 2 owners got a bad deal all around. We continue to be held hostage to our vehicles. We can't sell or trade until the repair is made. (Well, technically we can, but not without walking away from half the settlement, and not without taking a bath on price.) We still don't know when the repair will be available. And by the time we can finally sell or trade, we'll be competing against VAG dealers looking to unload their unsold inventory, plus the other speculators who have been hoarding TDI's in hopes of a buy-back. And of course we don't know exactly how performance will be impacted, although we absolutely do know with 100% certainty that it won't improve. We should have been offered a buyback. If the court didn't mandate it, VW should have stepped up and offered it voluntarily. If VW had offered to buy my car, I would almost certainly have remained in the VAG family. I am a very principled person myself, so doing the right thing goes a long way with me.

If you drive 10k miles a year, I can understand why you might not care. You have options. You can ride it out, see how things go, maybe drive your car for another 3, 5 or even 10 years. By the time you sell, demand could seriously outstrip supply. In the meantime, you get a nice fat cash windfall and an extended warranty. I'm at 80k piling on miles at a rate of 25k a year. We all know the Touareg is not a vehicle you want to be selling with high miles. I had hoped to get another Touareg TDI, or something else in the VAG family. But I'll drive a Yugo before I'll buy another VAG brand vehicle. If I knew then what I know now, I would have sold my car immediately following the announcement.
I don't disagree that 2.2 owners should have received a buy back, but what's the tipping point for you? Is it that you wanted a buyback, or that you have to empty your trunk to refill your AdBlue? You had to do that before, and presumably you were happy. How much more would you accept, and still be happy with the vehicle? If the cost the the AdBlue isn't an issue, then don't go to the dealer at all - you don't need to just to fill up the AdBlue tank. It will take them an hour anyway, because they'll scan for codes and wash it and tell you you need new brakes and when can we schedule you for your next service and have you heard about our deal on genu-wine OEM tires and why don't you look around the showroom and blah blah blah.

If you're pissed because you wanted a buyback, say that. If you're pissed because you have to empty your trunk to refill it with AdBlue, well, it was like that when you bought it.
 
I don't disagree that 2.2 owners should have received a buy back, but what's the tipping point for you? Is it that you wanted a buyback, or that you have to empty your trunk to refill your AdBlue? You had to do that before, and presumably you were happy. How much more would you accept, and still be happy with the vehicle? If the cost the the AdBlue isn't an issue, then don't go to the dealer at all - you don't need to just to fill up the AdBlue tank. It will take them an hour anyway, because they'll scan for codes and wash it and tell you you need new brakes and when can we schedule you for your next service and have you heard about our deal on genu-wine OEM tires and why don't you look around the showroom and blah blah blah.

If you're pissed because you wanted a buyback, say that. If you're pissed because you have to empty your trunk to refill it with AdBlue, well, it was like that when you bought it.
I have repeatedly said that I was pissed about the lack of buyback. I demanded a buyback during the public comment period, and I complained about the lack of one afterward on multiple occasions. If you go back and re-read my post that started us down this fruitless path, you'll see that m-fine posted that the extra AdBlue is nothing to complain about because it'll still last at least 5,000 miles and it's going to be free. My point was that while it may be free, it's still an inconvenience, and therefore I'll continue to do it myself because taking it to the dealership makes it even more inconvenient. Then you proceeded to call me a whiner, because clearly you didn't get my point. Or maybe you did, and you were just looking to pick a fight. Regardless, point made, moving on ...
 
We have plenty of independent German service shops in Madison, but I like the service at Zimbrick VW in Middleton. I do not plan on doing the fix until I’m ready to trade. You would think the dealer would have to have authorization for something so major??
I will bet that somebody will just take a tdi in for an quick oil change and then be told it will be there for... just a little bit longer. But, don't worry, it won't cost you any extra.

The authorization will be the court order to repair all possible...
 
It will take them an hour anyway, because they'll scan for codes and wash it and tell you you need new brakes and when can we schedule you for your next service and have you heard about our deal on genu-wine OEM tires and why don't you look around the showroom and blah blah blah.
you nailed that, I won't even bother to get free DEF for such reasons, on the subject I have bought 3 2.5 gal x$12 and I would be surprised if that doesn't last me about 20k, I just filled it to the brim, actually spilled some by incorrect placement of the funnel, or overfill, next time I am trying a funnel with a stopper.

I still consider that a small price to pay in comparison to a dealership visit, even though I admit that it is a bit cumbersome, it's mostly the small opening and unwieldy containers.

My DEF usage on my '14: I fill at 5k intervals or so, after 5k I put in about 2 gallons on average the last 20k. I imagine that will go up after fix. I think a tank would last me about 10k.
 
I have repeatedly said that I was pissed about the lack of buyback. I demanded a buyback during the public comment period, and I complained about the lack of one afterward on multiple occasions. If you go back and re-read my post that started us down this fruitless path, you'll see that m-fine posted that the extra AdBlue is nothing to complain about because it'll still last at least 5,000 miles and it's going to be free. My point was that while it may be free, it's still an inconvenience, and therefore I'll continue to do it myself because taking it to the dealership makes it even more inconvenient. Then you proceeded to call me a whiner, because clearly you didn't get my point. Or maybe you did, and you were just looking to pick a fight. Regardless, point made, moving on ...
If you go back and read my posts, you would see that I commented on how if the add blue needed to be refilled too often (by my standards) I would complain. When I read the update that consumption is expected to go up 40% I answered a question about who I would complain to by saying there was no reason (for me) to complain. One or two extra fills per year, for free, at a dealer a couple miles from my office, is not an issue for me. I understand other people have very different circumstances.
 
12,141 - 12,160 of 13,153 Posts