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VW TDI EPA Recall (2.0L and 3.0L)

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#10,381 ·
Seems to me that, while it makes arguably interesting conversation, what one wants or thinks is fair or unfair is irrelevant if they do not opt out of the settlement. The settlement is what it is, good, bad, indifferent or otherwise. The only way to affect the outcome is to express opinions to the proper contacts, then let the chips fall where they may. Or opt out and try one's luck through a different venue. Not trying to take anyone's side, that's just the way I see it. And we have a Gen1 and a Gen2 by the way.
 
#10,382 ·
BeemerMikeTX said:
Well, it IS relevant what the "cheat" really is, because it goes to VW's culpability for the cheat. I've seen a lot a speculation about the exact nature of the 3.0 cheat, but not a definitive answer (maybe I've just missed it). But clearly the 3.0 cheat was not for the purpose of avoiding the expense and trouble of installing an AdBlue SCR NOx reduction system on the 3.0 engines, which clearly was the situation with the 2.0 engines.


Oh, it's not difficult to understand at all. I own a Gen 2 TDI, so I am directly affected by the difference in treatment between me and the 2.0 TDI and Gen 1 3.0 TDI. The difference is in my response to this difference in treatment. If the Gen 2 "fix" turns out to be as simple as it's speculated to be, and my Touareg is returned to fully-compliant status with substantially the same performance, and I get $9k and an extended warranty, I'm going to be in a BETTER position than I am now. The fact that the older Gen 1 folks may have gotten a better deal is not going to cause me to lose any sleep.
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^^ Okay...one more time. We're almost there.

This is a thread in an online forum about a corporation that cheated the government and lied to its customers.

This thread focuses on factors dealing with the effect of that "scandal".

While indeed you - as the owner of a 2013 TDI - are part of the subclassification of Gen 2 owners (HERE IT COMES! GET READY!!!!)

Nobody is talking about re-introducing 2013 or 2014 TDIs with zero miles and an approved fix.

Somewhere along the line of this thread is a discussion of VW reselling stop sale 2015 and 2016 models (here's the caveat) that have been upgraded with the certified "fix"

This conversation is about the (unintended? overlooked?) albeit potential impact of that happening and the likely negative effect it would have on (Gen 2) owners of 2015/2016 Touaregs!!!!

Whereas you are indeed part of the Gen 2 subset of TDI owners, no one has inventory of 2013 and 2014 model years with zero miles awaiting a compliant fix before being re-introduced to the market!!!!

This conversation is about that inequity. Get it?

I realize it is a nit, I realize it may never matter one bit, I realize now I needed to be more specific in my explanation: Unless you have a 2015 or 2016 of course the release of untitled 2015 and 2016 vehicles matters little - unless you were so inclined to BUY one.

Since you do NOT have one, it was perhaps unfair of me to think you would understand the nuance. Apologies.

If I had kept my 2013 it would have 57000 miles on it. I'd likely be sitting pretty happy like you thinking that these jamokes were going to give me 9 grand and a killer warranty on time bomb parts like the HPFP. And I wouldn't care at all that they'd be re-introducing newer versions of later models because it would not affect me.

I am simply trying to show that there is more than one right answer and more than one satisfied viewpoint. After all this, if the only final answer is "Well, then opt the F out", then I'd have to say that this latest attempt to explain a different POV has once again come up short.

I can't go back and change the outcomes...the settlement is what it is...lawyers being lawyers and corporations trying to minimize damages. None of us signed up to be screwed over by either party and we're all just bullshi$$ing on an internet forum.

It is a discussion about equity. Not about being money grabbers or being butt hurt.

But, for this aspect of the discussion, you -respectfully - have no dog in the hunt. The value of your rig post-settlement will not be directly affected by the release of the same model year vehicle at a lower cost with low miles.

Opinions on this topic of VW releasing stop sale inventory only affects 2015 and 2016 owners, provided - of course - that those geniuses actually have one.
 
#10,383 ·
Jimbuffalo2 said:
^^ Okay...one more time. We're almost there.

This is a thread in an online forum about a corporation that cheated the government and lied to its customers.

This thread focuses on factors dealing with the effect of that "scandal".

While indeed you - as the owner of a 2013 TDI - are part of the subclassification of Gen 2 owners (HERE IT COMES! GET READY!!!!)

Nobody is talking about re-introducing 2013 or 2014 TDIs with zero miles and an approved fix.

Somewhere along the line of this thread is a discussion of VW reselling stop sale 2015 and 2016 models (here's the caveat) that have been upgraded with the certified "fix"

This conversation is about the (unintended? overlooked?) albeit potential impact of that happening and the likely negative effect it would have on (Gen 2) owners of 2015/2016 Touaregs!!!!

Whereas you are indeed part of the Gen 2 subset of TDI owners, no one has inventory of 2013 and 2014 model years with zero miles awaiting a compliant fix before being re-introduced to the market!!!!

This conversation is about that inequity. Get it?

* * *

But, for this aspect of the discussion, you -respectfully - have no dog in the hunt. The value of your rig post-settlement will not be directly affected by the release of the same model year vehicle at a lower cost with low miles.

Opinions on this topic of VW releasing stop sale inventory only affects 2015 and 2016 owners, provided - of course - that those geniuses actually have one.
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But that is just incorrect. As a 2013 owner, I DO have a dog in the hunt. IF VW dumps a bunch of 2015/2016 models on the market and depresses the FMV of existing 2015/2016 Touaregs, that will also depress the FMV of my 2013 Touareg. Maybe not as much, but it will depress my FMV. That is why 2015/2016 Touaregs will get a larger "restitution" payment. You don't think that 2013/2014 Touareg TDIs are an isolated market from 2015/2016 Touareg TDIs, do you?

Now, I understand the concern some folks have that the restitution amount may not be as much as the diminution in FMV. I have that same concern, but I just think the risk of that is fairly small. If I take the restitution payment and sell my Touareg for whatever the FMV is, and the total of those two amounts is equal to what the buyback amount would be, then I will be in exactly the same financial situation as the Gen 1 owners. If the total is higher than the buyback amount, then I will gain. Yes, I know that some Gen 2 owners don't want to have ANY risk, want maximum control, and want to exert the minimum possible effort to get their money, but the fact the Gen 2 deal is different from the Gen 1 deal does not make the Gen 2 deal "wrong" or "unfair". It just makes it different.
 
#10,384 ·
I am keeping an interested eye on the threads in TDIclub.com on sales of untitled 2.0's. There appears to be a strong first wave of sales. VW set an "incentive" of $5K off msrp which is not any more than you can get on a 2017. Those calling dealers hoping to lowball are disappointed. A couple of cars are damaged by exposure to the weather but most not. The main bone of contention seems to be between posters who think VW should not be "rewarded" by selling these cars at such a high price considering their bad behavior, and those who want to drive what they love.

The 2.0 market is different from ours in key ways. First, it is much larger in numbers. Second, owners of even late model cars have the option to take the buyback to get a car with lower miles. (There are a couple such cases but most posters owned older model years.)

Still, had there been crickets and if dealers were deeply discounting these cars to get them gone we would know it was a bad sign. I'm encouraged.
 
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#10,385 ·
Mythdoc said:
Still, had there been crickets and if dealers were deeply discounting these cars to get them gone we would know it was a bad sign. I'm encouraged.
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^ This. The market reality that some folks want to ignore is that a "fixed" Gen 2 Touareg TDI with an extended "factory" warranty, even IF it ends up with a little less power and fuel economy, will still have significant appeal (and therefore market value) to people. We see Gen 1 folks here chomping at the bit for a Gen 2 to buy.
 
#10,386 ·
^^though I am optimistic about the post settlement market, as are you, I think your assertion about future "market reality" is much stronger than I would make at this point.
 
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#10,387 ·
Mythdoc said:
^^though I am optimistic about the post settlement market, as are you, I think your assertion about future "market reality" is much stronger than I would make at this point.
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Oh, I'm not predicting that people are going to be beating down doors with cash in their hand to buy a Gen 2 TDI at an inflated price. I'm only predicting that there will be willing buyers at an FMV that when combined with the restitution payment will put Gen 2 owners in the same (or better) financial situation as Gen 1 owners.
 
#10,388 ·
BeemerMikeTX said:
^ This. The market reality that some folks want to ignore is that a "fixed" Gen 2 Touareg TDI with an extended "factory" warranty, even IF it ends up with a little less power and fuel economy, will still have significant appeal (and therefore market value) to people. We see Gen 1 folks here chomping at the bit for a Gen 2 to buy.
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Based upon a sample size of 17 posters on an inconsequential message board, you're probably right.

If I had Texas money, I'd park my 2016 TDI Exec unicorn and roll it out to a Mecum auction in 2036 and fetch $150,000 for it to test your theory!!!
 
#10,389 ·
Reality is that the mighty Touareg - as a platform - is kaput. Even though 75% of them have been fitted with gas motors, it likely no longer fits. See Atlas, see LWB Tiguan.

Diesel from VW is completely dead in NA. The market - provided a fix actually occurs after the courts decide - is a niche of a niche, statistically insignificant to VWAG. VW could sell every single "fixed" 2015/2016 at whatever price point and no-one (outside of this very small forum community) will even notice.

VW is on a roll despite Dieselgate. NA is a strange market for them. If the proverbial fix is a reality, much more has to happen with regard to resolving questions about DEF consumption, clatter, performance, mileage, and value.

None of this starts until the court decision is resolved.
 
#10,390 ·
Jimbuffalo2 said:
Based upon a sample size of 17 posters on an inconsequential message board, you're probably right.
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Do you have any data that indicates our small sample size is NOT representative of the larger Touareg market?

Jimbuffalo2 said:
If I had Texas money, I'd park my 2016 TDI Exec unicorn and roll it out to a Mecum auction in 2036 and fetch $150,000 for it to test your theory!!!
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If you didn't live in high-tax NY maybe you'd have "Texas money". :grin2:
 
#10,392 ·
Discounts on the [partially] repaired 2.0's seem to be all over the place. I received a "Get them while they last" email from my son's dealership, so I called to find out what they're offering. I was told incentives are only $2,500 off MSRP. I pressed the issue, and they insisted the number is correct ... $2,500 plus 0% for 72 months. I guess some dealerships feel VW still owes them.

VW Offering Deals on Fixed 2015 TDI Models, but Isn't Advertising It
 
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#10,393 ·
BeemerMikeTX said:
Do you have any data that indicates our small sample size is NOT representative of the larger Touareg market?
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CT population is not representative of the larger Touareg owning public. We are the lunatic fringe.

99% of Touareg owners have never heard of CT and probably can't imagine spending time on an automotive forum. We might have slightly higher penetration with diesel owners, but still, this population is an anomaly.
 
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#10,394 ·
lml999 said:
CT population is not representative of the larger Touareg owning public. We are the lunatic fringe.

99% of Touareg owners have never heard of CT and probably can't imagine spending time on an automotive forum. We might have slightly higher penetration with diesel owners, but still, this population is an anomaly.
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Just because the diesel-Touareg-buying public hasn't heard of CT does not mean they don't have the same purchase attitude as CT folks. That's the point.
 
#10,395 ·
HotRodW said:
Discounts on the [partially] repaired 2.0's seem to be all over the place. I received a "Get them while they last" email from my son's dealership, so I called to find out what they're offering. I was told incentives are only $2,500 off MSRP. I pressed the issue, and they insisted the number is correct ... $2,500 plus 0% for 72 months. I guess some dealerships feel VW still owes them.
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Or the market demand for repaired 2.0's is strong enough that the FMV is higher than the VW discounted price to dealers. If you own a TDI, FMV is what you're interested in.
 
#10,398 ·
#10,399 ·
HotRodW said:
Discounts on the [partially] repaired 2.0's seem to be all over the place. I received a "Get them while they last" email from my son's dealership, so I called to find out what they're offering. I was told incentives are only $2,500 off MSRP. I pressed the issue, and they insisted the number is correct ... $2,500 plus 0% for 72 months. I guess some dealerships feel VW still owes them.
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That is why some of them are known as stealers, not dealers. Exclusive: VW Offering Unadvertised Discounts on Repaired 2015 TDI Diesel Models - CarsDirect
 
#10,400 ·
lml999 said:
We might have slightly higher penetration with diesel owners, but still, this population is an anomaly.
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Well, seems most people on CT do feel there has been much deeper penetration by VW into its diesel owners....
 
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