VW TDI EPA Recall (2.0L and 3.0L)

mpm T2 TDI · Apr 1, 2017

Veets said:
I've owned VWs continuously since the early 80s - nearly a dozen of them. And some of them have been service nightmares too. But I always bought another one because I like 'em. It's a hard habit to break. But I don't think I have ever been as disgusted with a company as I am right now with VW. For the first time, I'm not sure I want another one of their cars. I think, maybe I'll get an Audi or a Porsche instead, but those are still VW's. I know that other brands aren't really any different. They all have their skeletons in the closet, do slimy things, and make you pay for their cost cutting and mistakes after the warranty runs out. But I dunno, this time maybe I'll really switch. Maybe? I think I need therapy.

Well said Veets, and similarly, I've owned 9 new VAG products since 1983. The only new cars I've ever bought. Some were more quirky and squeaky, than others. All of them were fun to drive and a great value for the dollar spent. Never considered any other brand...

VAG products will be considered in the future, but my fanboy attitude toward them has ended. When I consider the amount of time I've spent thinking, reading, watching & rooting (races), in believing in, and the pride felt for the brand, (and the cars in general)...those days are done.

Reminds me of when the baseball players strike ended the '93 season, and how much time I spent following my team and all the players in my 3 paper-based fantasy leagues...eliminated my devotion to following pro sports. Can't say I miss it...as Seinfeld said, we just root for uniforms, since players move on...

Comes down to, its just a busines. But once making more money comes at the clients expense, trust gets broken. Trust is hard to build, easy to break, and once broken hard to repair. So this whole saga has freed up more time for better pursuits...

Next time I'm in the market, I'll consider a VAG product. And the MB is proving to be a solid build. But if BMW, or Hyundai, or Kia, of Toyota, or Honda, or GM, or Ford, or Geely, or whomever, makes a better product that fits my family needs, they will now be considered from here on as well. It's a car. Best quality features for the price will win...

And more than likely, I won't miss dwelling on VAG...

lml999 · Apr 1, 2017

I know its still early and I have more than two years to make a decision...but I'm rethinking my strategy.

So I'd get about $30K if I turn in my Touareg. I'd probably end up putting another $5K or $10K into a new(er) car purchase and I'd end up with a newer car with a few more bells & whistles. Lower miles. Maybe CPO.

Or...I can stick where I am, pass on the buyback and keep driving a car that I love. It's perfect for our needs. Why go through the bother and cost of replacing it?

Sure, there's a one time opportunity to make some money on the car. But I'd be rolling the money back into another one, probably a diesel Cayenne. And frankly, I'm not a huge fan of the exterior. Air suspension supposedly is available on the diesel Cayenne, but I haven't seen a single TDI listed with air. And my wife is an "anti-snob"...she prefers the VW logo over Audi or Porsche...

So...the good news is that I don't have to do anything right now. I'll bide my time and see if something compelling comes up on the used car market. If not, I think I might just stick right where I am. Maybe replace the HP fuel pump prophylactically.

nickyt · Apr 2, 2017

VW continues to ask for cuts from the German factory workers, saying that the company can't continue to keep overpaying. Perhaps VW should start by cutting out the overpaid German management.

I would bet that there is a clause in that payout to the effect that any public "embarrassment" or bad publicity will void any and all future payouts. IE: keep your mouth shut.

www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2017/04/02/12-million-golden-parachute-for-porsche-rd-boss-fake-news-it-was-13-million/

According to BILD, the go away package was worth EUR 12 million (approx. $13 million.) Volkswagen denied the 12 million Euros. Today, BILD wrote that “Volkswagen was right.” It wasn’t 12 million. It was 13 million.

Jeff Tilden · Apr 2, 2017

A decade from now this entire saga will be the basis of three great business school cases:
1. The power of corporate ethics/culture in driving misinformation
2. Failure to openly take responsibility in a timely manner and its effect on future market share
3. The long-term public perception of VAG. The ultimate ?, will anybody care in 10 years.

fincher · Apr 3, 2017

Ferdinand Piech is Selling his Stake in VW
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/news/a33101/ferdinand-piech-is-selling-his-stake-in-vw/

mpm T2 TDI · Apr 3, 2017

Jeff Tilden said:
A decade from now this entire saga will be the basis of three great business school cases:
1. The power of corporate ethics/culture in driving misinformation
2. Failure to openly take responsibility in a timely manner and its effect on future market share
3. The long-term public perception of VAG. The ultimate ?, will anybody care in 10 years.

Historically epic corporate fail...

Might restate #2 as: Attempts to cover-up tend to be worse than the crime. Or in this case, perhaps just ignorance is never bliss...and they hoped it never would come to light, or it would just go away - may be part of the reason why they built the EA288s came with AdBlue systems.

10 years is a generations worth of time. My bet, people will have long forgotten, or cared. Case in point 1986, with unintended accelerating Audi 5000s. By 1996, the new A4 was crushing it in the marketplace.

HotRodW · Apr 3, 2017

mpm T2 TDI said:
10 years is a generations worth of time. My bet, people will have long forgotten, or cared. Case in point 1986, with unintended accelerating Audi 5000s. By 1996, the new A4 was crushing it in the marketplace.

The key difference between DieselGate and Audi's unintended acceleration mess is that this isn't BS. That said, I agree that in 10 years the general public will have largely forgotten all about the scandal. Those of us directly hurt by this fiasco ... probably not so much. I know I certainly won't forget, and it's likely I won't forgive, either. At this point, the question isn't "if" I'm getting out, but rather "when" I'm getting out. Time will tell if I can eventually get past the bitterness, but if the Atlas V6 is the best we have to look forward to, I have no reason to bother trying.

nickyt · Apr 3, 2017

German court rebuffs VW complaint over prosecutors' searches | Reuters

Volkswagen (VW) said last week it had filed a complaint with a Munich court to prevent prosecutors from retaining and assessing material confiscated during a March 15 raid on U.S. law firm Jones Day.

But a Munich local court has now decided that the raids by prosecutors on Jones Day as well as on VW and Audi, both of which were also searched separately on March 15, were legitimate, a court spokeswoman said on Monday.

Stabone33 · Apr 3, 2017

IT KNOWS....

So, true story:

Last Thursday, the same day I'm scheduled to pop by the Land Rover dealer to check out a new Discovery demo they have for a few days before deciding to put a deposit down. I hop in the T2 to go grab some lunch around the corner from work. First time ever, got the "DIESEL PARTICULATE! SEE MANUAL" warning. Cool, I know what that is, guess I get to take a drive. 30 minutes up/down the freeway, it clears. But that's funny, just took a 100-mile round trip to Denver the weekend before, and my AdBlue tank is at least half full. Eh, whatever.

Couple hours later, get in the car to head over to the LR dealer - and the MIL comes on solid on start. No chime or any other warning - OK, I know what this is too - either the EGR or the AdBlue system. Quick check with Manuel, and sure enough, it indicates "a fault in the emissions system." Seems like it's probably the AdBlue system since my DPF needed a regen just a couple hours earlier. OK, so in other words, nothing I can't drive on - weekend ski trip with the family coming up, and week from hell this week, I can deal with it later, but not too much later because I have to renew my registration this month and this year is a smog test year.

We put down a deposit on the new Discovery - it is a beautiful beast. Expect delivery in October.

elvic_thrust:

Then, on Friday night in the mountains, I get a chime and a notice, "CHECK LEFT MAIN BEAM" - my headlight is out. #-o Eh, sh*t. Already spent $25 replacing hood support struts (love that Amazon Prime), now I need to spend some money on headlight bulbs. Funny thing is, I didn't really notice it was out because the main beams are so weak anyway. But anyway, it's 2nd Winter here and with the snowstorms I need 2 working headlights, so I'll do it. $33 for a 2-pack on Amazon, then take five bucks off for a coupon, $30 with tax.

I have a hair under 100K on the clock...was hoping the free oil change would be in place by now, but gotta wait till probably June with the rest of the settlement on that one. Might bite the bullet on that too (DIY, though). Now that I have a target, I have to get it there....

Still runs like a dream otherwise...(knock wood...) [-o<

BeemerMikeTX · Apr 3, 2017

Stabone33 said:
OK, so in other words, nothing I can't drive on - weekend ski trip with the family coming up,

* * *

But anyway, it's 2nd Winter here and with the snowstorms

Glad to hear it (about the 2nd Winter). We're driving up this weekend to ski at Breck, Vail, and BC next week, so happy there's lots of new snow.

Shaolo · Apr 3, 2017

If you aren't keeping it, why bother changing the oil?

Stabone33 · Apr 3, 2017

Shaolo said:
If you aren't keeping it, why bother changing the oil?

Well, that's a good question. I still plan on offroading it this summer (as I do every summer...and fall...and sometimes Spring mud season, and sometimes winter...) and I guess I'd like the peace of mind that comes with knowing all the dust and extra heat built up at low speed and high RPMs are not going to push some old oil to the point where something that's not covered under an extended warranty will break. The oil is already 6 months and 10,000 miles old - I know that under daily driver conditions that's not bad. It also doesn't burn oil - like, at all. I got one really well-put-together copy.

If I didn't have to get the car smogged this year, I'd actually leave the MIL/Ad Blue problems and probably still change the oil. At least until the no-start warning on the Ad Blue system appears, but since my county does a smog check that includes a code scan for the emissions system, I kinda have to get that fixed.

todcp · Apr 3, 2017

VWcheats said:
Never ever had a service nightmare driven Toyota Lexus products for last 300k miles besides this VW fiasco. A fiasco for what tied down to this hunk of steel now my sympathies u might need therapy lol

So you did not have one of the Toyota Truck/SUV's that are having their rusted frames replaced (1.5 million of them)? Nor are you one of the owners whose engines have blown due to long oil change intervals and too small oil passages. Nor the owners whose Toyota motors are burning a quart of oil every thousand miles (which Toyota will not repair for a friend of mine after appealing. Normal they say). Nor the owners of Tundras that had the rear bumpers rust out (mine started rusting out in four months). That being said Toyota has generally been first rate in dealing with these problems. Including replacing the entire frame on a friends SUV that had 270,000 miles on it.
While VW tried to hide.....

mpm T2 TDI · Apr 3, 2017

HotRodW said:
The key difference between DieselGate and Audi's unintended acceleration mess is that this isn't BS. That said, I agree that in 10 years the general public will have largely forgotten all about the scandal. Those of us directly hurt by this fiasco ... probably not so much. I know I certainly won't forget, and it's likely I won't forgive, either. At this point, the question isn't "if" I'm getting out, but rather "when" I'm getting out. Time will tell if I can eventually get past the bitterness, but if the Atlas V6 is the best we have to look forward to, I have no reason to bother trying.

True, unintended acceleration was proven to be driver error. It still crushed Audi sales for 10 years...

Stabone33 · Apr 3, 2017

BeemerMikeTX said:
Stabone33 said:

OK, so in other words, nothing I can't drive on - weekend ski trip with the family coming up,

* * *

But anyway, it's 2nd Winter here and with the snowstorms

Click to expand...

Glad to hear it (about the 2nd Winter). We're driving up this weekend to ski at Breck, Vail, and BC next week, so happy there's lots of new snow.

Quite a bit melted off in March, but there was a good base underneath so the new stuff we're getting should go nicely on top. Plenty of snow left, and nearly zero lift lines now that Colorado school spring breaks are over....

Ski good or eat wood!

Coloartist · Apr 4, 2017

There is still snow here on the mountain. It has melted off "Bigly"! My roof and deck has totally melted earlier then it ever has before. I have lived here 30 years. I am 10 miles from Breckenridge and 6 miles from Keystone.

MtnPass · Apr 4, 2017

We have a home in Keystone as well. The snow was good for most of the day yesterday but become slushy late in the afternoon. Hey Stabone, I still owe you a report on Webster Pass. I plan to give it a try in late June when all the snow melts. I am sure you would enjoy that ride in your new rig! I am sure you are thrilled. Congrats.

Cheers!

Bill

HotRodW · Apr 4, 2017

EU Diesel Phase Out Predicted

"Europe's industry chief said she saw diesel engines disappearing from markets much faster than expected as the European Parliament on Tuesday endorsed tougher rules aimed at preventing a rerun of the Volkswagen emissions cheating scandal."

EU Industry chief sees 'fast' phase-out of diesel post-VW scandal | Reuters

How ironic would it be if Europe gives up on diesels while the domestic brands bring about a resurgence in North America? Unlikely, although recent investment in diesel here indicates it is possible. We'll see how Ford and GM do with their new offerings.

mpm T2 TDI · Apr 4, 2017

HotRodW said:
"Europe's industry chief said she saw diesel engines disappearing from markets much faster than expected as the European Parliament on Tuesday endorsed tougher rules aimed at preventing a rerun of the Volkswagen emissions cheating scandal."

EU Industry chief sees 'fast' phase-out of diesel post-VW scandal | Reuters

How ironic would it be if Europe gives up on diesels while the domestic brands bring about a resurgence in North America? Unlikely, although recent investment in diesel here indicates it is possible. We'll see how Ford and GM do with their new offerings.

Looks like it's driverless EVs for everyone by 2025! Well, not everyone, just typical SUV and car owners...

Since screens seem to be the new socital addiction of choice...wonder if kids being born since 2010, will give a hoot about auto brands, features, options etc, or just see it all as a generic Uber-like method to get them from point A to B?

An autonomous vechicle economy would really disrupt the marketplace and the non-college educated employment base. Consider the impact to long haul trucking, car services and local deliveries. How many people are in those jobs?

Further if there is decreased purchasing demand from the next generations (because they don't believe in buying anything, and are ok being picked up by their generic-driverless bot to go do shopping) would further shrink global auto brands, and local autobody shops, mechanics etc could all fade away...

And it's all Winterkorn's fault

Mythdoc · Apr 4, 2017

^^ Thanks Obama!! :wink2:

But seriously, with the other options now improving, diesels are really best suited to a few niche uses: towing, rural locations, dedicated long distance operations to name a few. I happen to fall in the rural category. Given time, emissions systems might have become much more reliable, but that future is much less likely now.

As for the death of driving: it could happen, but being a snob and flaunting wealth is not going to die, so prestige cars will still be around in some form or fashion. I suspect VW group will be in good shape in that upcoming time.

I have only had 3 VW's and one Audi in my time (all recent), so not enough to create either a sense of allegiance or one now of betrayal. I never could understand why people needed to be Apple people or PC people, iPhone or Android, Ford or Chevy truck people, etc. Even before dieselgate, anytime there was a VW story on Jalopnik, Motor Trend, or whatever, people would just line up to bash or to defend. That said, the planners at major car companies know that to succeed they need to appeal to the masses. They have already adjusted their spreadsheets to account for our hurt feelings and the lack of having our business "ever again."

VW TDI EPA Recall (2.0L and 3.0L)

mpm T2 TDI

lml999

nickyt

Jeff Tilden

fincher

mpm T2 TDI

HotRodW

nickyt

Stabone33

BeemerMikeTX

Shaolo

Stabone33

todcp

mpm T2 TDI

Stabone33

Coloartist

MtnPass

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HotRodW

mpm T2 TDI

Mythdoc

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