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VW TDI EPA Recall (2.0L and 3.0L)

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#9,381 ·
Registered.. I feel like I won the lottery. There's NO DOWNSIDE at all!! Already planned on keeping for 10 years anyway.

1) register for recall
2) get 50% of the settlement up from (probably $3500 of $7000 on my 2013 Sport w/nav TDI)
3) get $1500 from Bosch (gee thanks!!)
4) get emissions fix for free, extended warranty
5) get the remainder 50% of the settlement
6) ALREADY received $1000 from VW
7) ALREADY received refund of money paid for AdBlue heater repair ($106.35), amounts to free repair and extended warranty

Wow...Awesome..I stopped reading this thread about a year ago. I suppose for people who really had planned on not keeping for longer than a few years, it does screw things up for them.
 
#9,382 ·
Looks like VW is offering some coverage (owner restitution) in the event of total loss of the vehicle due to accident, etc.
 
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#9,383 ·
ToolmanJohn said:
Registered.. I feel like I won the lottery. There's NO DOWNSIDE at all!! Already planned on keeping for 10 years anyway.

1) register for recall
2) get 50% of the settlement up from (probably $3500 of $7000 on my 2013 Sport w/nav TDI)
3) get $1500 from Bosch (gee thanks!!)
4) get emissions fix for free, extended warranty
5) get the remainder 50% of the settlement
6) ALREADY received $1000 from VW
7) ALREADY received refund of money paid for AdBlue heater repair ($106.35), amounts to free repair and extended warranty

Wow...Awesome..I stopped reading this thread about a year ago. I suppose for people who really had planned on not keeping for longer than a few years, it does screw things up for them.
Click to expand...
Here is the downside, and it could be huge. If the repair changes the power or mileage significantly, or makes the engine noisier as some have reported with the 2.0Ls, the resale value could drop significantly. This drop could exceed the amount of the compensation, or make our cars hard to sell. The language in this settlement is very favorable to VW, since the minimum standard is not even defined. All they have to do is pay you an extra $500 for anything below Reduced Performance. This is poor protection for the consumer. Any noticeable performance decrease will be unacceptable to me. And VW has the ability under this agreement to reduce performance significantly. In fact, VW has every financial incentive to meet the emissions certification without regard to performance so they don't have to buy the Gen 2 cars back.


7.5. Reduced Performance. Defendants represent that the Emissions Compliant
Repair shall not result in “Reduced Performance.” In the event that the Emissions Compliant
Repair causes Reduced Performance of the Eligible Vehicle, Volkswagen shall make an
additional payment of $500 for each affected Eligible Vehicle. For purposes of this section,
Reduced Performance means a change in any of the following performance attributes: (1) a
reduction in calculated fuel economy using the EPA formula of more than 3 MPG; (2) a decrease
of greater than 5% in peak horsepower; or (3) a decrease of greater than 5% in peak torque. The
performance impacts shall be measured by Volkswagen pursuant to industry standards in
connection with its submission of an Emissions Modification Proposal to the EPA and CARB,
and, upon final approval of such Emissions Modification Proposal, Defendants shall disclose any
impact to these performance attributes in the VW Class Update pursuant to paragraph 2.96 of the
3.0-liter Class Action Settlement. In the event that the Emissions Compliant Repair causes a
substantial, material adverse degradation above and beyond the Reduced Performance levels
specified above, Plaintiffs reserve their right to seek, and Defendants reserve their right to oppose,
additional remedies through motion to the Court.​
 
#9,384 · (Edited)
Veets said:
Here is the downside, and it could be huge. If the repair changes the power or mileage significantly, or makes the engine noisier as some have reported with the 2.0Ls, the resale value could drop significantly. This drop could exceed the amount of the compensation, or make our cars hard to sell. The language in this settlement is very favorable to VW, since the minimum standard is not even defined. All they have to do is pay you an extra $500 for anything below Reduced Performance. This is poor protection for the consumer. Any noticeable performance decrease will be unacceptable to me. And VW has the ability under this agreement to reduce performance significantly. In fact, VW has every financial incentive to meet the emissions certification without regard to performance so they don't have to buy the Gen 2 cars back.
Click to expand...
If you are right, 50000 some odd gen 2 owners will never, ever buy a VW, Audi, or Porsche again. If Toolman John is right, many of them will. That is strong incentive as I see it for them to deliver for their customers.
 
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#9,385 ·
Veets said:
Here is the downside, and it could be huge. If the repair changes the power or mileage significantly, or makes the engine noisier as some have reported with the 2.0Ls, the resale value could drop significantly. This drop could exceed the amount of the compensation, or make our cars hard to sell. The language in this settlement is very favorable to VW, since the minimum standard is not even defined. All they have to do is pay you an extra $500 for anything below Reduced Performance. This is poor protection for the consumer. Any noticeable performance decrease will be unacceptable to me. And VW has the ability under this agreement to reduce performance significantly. In fact, VW has every financial incentive to meet the emissions certification without regard to performance so they don't have to buy the Gen 2 cars back.


7.5. Reduced Performance. Defendants represent that the Emissions Compliant
Repair shall not result in “Reduced Performance.” In the event that the Emissions Compliant
Repair causes Reduced Performance of the Eligible Vehicle, Volkswagen shall make an
additional payment of $500 for each affected Eligible Vehicle. For purposes of this section,
Reduced Performance means a change in any of the following performance attributes: (1) a
reduction in calculated fuel economy using the EPA formula of more than 3 MPG; (2) a decrease
of greater than 5% in peak horsepower; or (3) a decrease of greater than 5% in peak torque. The
performance impacts shall be measured by Volkswagen pursuant to industry standards in
connection with its submission of an Emissions Modification Proposal to the EPA and CARB,
and, upon final approval of such Emissions Modification Proposal, Defendants shall disclose any
impact to these performance attributes in the VW Class Update pursuant to paragraph 2.96 of the
3.0-liter Class Action Settlement. In the event that the Emissions Compliant Repair causes a
substantial, material adverse degradation above and beyond the Reduced Performance levels
specified above, Plaintiffs reserve their right to seek, and Defendants reserve their right to oppose,
additional remedies through motion to the Court.​
Click to expand...
Well, the plan I guess would be to keep coming back to VW for the same issue and exercise the lemon law on the car... I believe there's a clause stating that as a result of the fix, the lemon law will apply for it...

If they not going to honor my business, this would be the last VW/Audit/Porsche me or my family would buy.
 
#9,389 ·
VWcheats said:
Now they can only loose 5 percent torque or HP but nothing about increases rattle. I still am hopefull cheaters will fail and I will get my Range Rover TD6
Click to expand...
Here's a little fun with math, using an interesting post regarding dyno testing on a Cayenne Diesel. The premise being Porsche typically understates the real world hp/torque.

Diesel Cayenne and VW emission issue - Page 199 - Rennlist Discussion Forums

So, real world horsepower and torque measured on a stock 2013 Cayenne Diesel (same engine) at the wheels:

208 (Wheel HP) x 1.35 = 281 HP at the flywheel
354 (Wheel TQ) x 1.35 = 478 TQ at the flywheel

Factory quoted performance is 240 HP/406 TQ.

Using the measured car as the baseline, with a 5% reduction of factory spec 240 hp and 406 ft-lb, yields a permissible 228 hp and 386 ft-lb.

Before:
281/478
After:
228/386

Those represent ~19% reduction from the "real world" figures measured on the dyno.

I'm sure the seat of the pants feel wouldn't be quite the same ;-)
 
#9,390 ·
I don't see a "not greater than 5% decrease in power" as a downside. No one will notice it in the real world. Ever..Maybe on a timed track.. As for noise, we'll just have to wait , but I am more annoyed by squeaks and rattles than engine noise, and for $8500 ($7000 VW + $1500 BOSCH) I can put up with some noise. I'll play the stereo a little louder.

A question: Would anyone be willing to pay 5% MORE than they already paid for their Touareg if it made 5% more power?

Example: $55,000 X 0.05= $2750 , for 252HP instead of 240HP, and 426.3FT/LB instead of 406 FT/LB ??? Would you notice that 5% marginal increase in HP and Torque? I wouldn't.... And it wouldn't be worth $2750 either..

So 5% POSSIBLE reduction (this is NOT YET a given, it is NOT a fact yet), is really not a big deal.
 
#9,391 ·
Veets said:
Here is the downside, and it could be huge. If the repair changes the power or mileage significantly, or makes the engine noisier as some have reported with the 2.0Ls, the resale value could drop significantly. This drop could exceed the amount of the compensation, or make our cars hard to sell. The language in this settlement is very favorable to VW, since the minimum standard is not even defined. All they have to do is pay you an extra $500 for anything below Reduced Performance. This is poor protection for the consumer. Any noticeable performance decrease will be unacceptable to me. And VW has the ability under this agreement to reduce performance significantly. In fact, VW has every financial incentive to meet the emissions certification without regard to performance so they don't have to buy the Gen 2 cars back.

7.5. Reduced Performance. Defendants represent that the Emissions Compliant
Repair shall not result in “Reduced Performance.” In the event that the Emissions Compliant
Repair causes Reduced Performance of the Eligible Vehicle, Volkswagen shall make an
additional payment of $500 for each affected Eligible Vehicle. For purposes of this section,
Reduced Performance means a change in any of the following performance attributes: (1) a
reduction in calculated fuel economy using the EPA formula of more than 3 MPG; (2) a decrease
of greater than 5% in peak horsepower; or (3) a decrease of greater than 5% in peak torque. The
performance impacts shall be measured by Volkswagen pursuant to industry standards in
connection with its submission of an Emissions Modification Proposal to the EPA and CARB,
and, upon final approval of such Emissions Modification Proposal, Defendants shall disclose any
impact to these performance attributes in the VW Class Update pursuant to paragraph 2.96 of the
3.0-liter Class Action Settlement. In the event that the Emissions Compliant Repair causes a
substantial, material adverse degradation above and beyond the Reduced Performance levels
specified above, Plaintiffs reserve their right to seek, and Defendants reserve their right to oppose,
additional remedies through motion to the Court.
​
Click to expand...
So 3 MPG is not considered "reduced performance"? We are going to trust VW to measure the differences? and if it is worse they give us $500 and that is OK? Come on..
 
#9,392 ·
lml999 said:
Looks like VW is offering some coverage (owner restitution) in the event of total loss of the vehicle due to accident, etc.
Click to expand...
Lee, did you do the calc yet? I'm struggling to find the page with the 9/15 NADA value charts. I'm at 97K. Is there anything for heated wheel, dealer installed cargo and rubber mats?
 
#9,393 ·
Good Evening Guys,

I hope this thing is working out for all of you. I was hoping someone could take a glance at my numbers.....

2015 Gen 2 Sport Technology Clean Trade 31,000 less 3975 for mileage (66,000)

To get a complete buy back 27,075 x 1.30 = 35,197. I owe 39,000 for round numbers..... so 4k out of pocket to get totally out

Repair and compensation = 10% for 27075 = 2707 + 3596 = 6303 cash in pocket plus repair.

I saw some one post something about a 3000 bosch buy out?? Where is that and do I get that as well?

Thanks
Cooper
 
#9,394 ·
The specs I see listed for my new (to me) Q5 TDI say 240/426 yielding combined 27mpg. Theoretically that could be dropped to 228/405 and 24. Still good. However, I predict a much smaller decline in these areas. Eight gears to work with and a fat hp/torque curve between 1700-3000 rpm. We'll know more within a year.
 
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#9,395 ·
ToolmanJohn said:
I don't see a "not greater than 5% decrease in power" as a downside. No one will notice it in the real world. Ever..Maybe on a timed track.. As for noise, we'll just have to wait , but I am more annoyed by squeaks and rattles than engine noise, and for $8500 ($7000 VW + $1500 BOSCH) I can put up with some noise. I'll play the stereo a little louder.

A question: Would anyone be willing to pay 5% MORE than they already paid for their Touareg if it made 5% more power?

Example: $55,000 X 0.05= $2750 , for 252HP instead of 240HP, and 426.3FT/LB instead of 406 FT/LB ??? Would you notice that 5% marginal increase in HP and Torque? I wouldn't.... And it wouldn't be worth $2750 either..

So 5% POSSIBLE reduction (this is NOT YET a given, it is NOT a fact yet), is really not a big deal.
Click to expand...
I agree. 5% +/- is minimal to nothing. I could care less. 5% is nada and more noise, so what! Little more noise won't bother me. I owned a 2005 B5.5 passat wagon TDI (one of the best cars I have owned besides Touareg), talk about loud but I like it.
 
#9,396 ·
Registering via my iPad doesn't work. I enter the VIN and it just returns me to the registration page. I had to use a PC to register. Some kind of bug on mobile version of the registration page.
 
#9,397 ·
ToolmanJohn said:
I don't see a "not greater than 5% decrease in power" as a downside. No one will notice it in the real world. Ever..Maybe on a timed track.. As for noise, we'll just have to wait , but I am more annoyed by squeaks and rattles than engine noise, and for $8500 ($7000 VW + $1500 BOSCH) I can put up with some noise. I'll play the stereo a little louder.

A question: Would anyone be willing to pay 5% MORE than they already paid for their Touareg if it made 5% more power?

Example: $55,000 X 0.05= $2750 , for 252HP instead of 240HP, and 426.3FT/LB instead of 406 FT/LB ??? Would you notice that 5% marginal increase in HP and Torque? I wouldn't.... And it wouldn't be worth $2750 either..

So 5% POSSIBLE reduction (this is NOT YET a given, it is NOT a fact yet), is really not a big deal.
Click to expand...
It's not just a 5% reduction we're talking about here. They can reduce power and mileage by some unspecified greater amount by paying us $500. We don't even know what the bottom is because it's completely arbitrary. What I might think is substantial, material adverse degradation, others may not. Lawyers in the group, please feel free to chime in here on what this allows them to do.

The question I want answered is why that language is even there? Either fix my car to meet emissions without hurting the performance which I bought it for, or buy it back. The Gen 1 and 2.0L diesel owners aren't being forced to wait a year before they even learn what the impact of the fix will be. They have the option of an immediate buyback. Why are certain owners being treated like second class citizens? Where were the EPA, FTC and the plaintiff's counsel, who are supposed to be acting as our advocates, when these provisions were drafted? VW was supposed to be able to avoid a buyback only if the fix didn't change the rest of the car. Now we find out that there is nothing in the agreement that would prevent them from fixing the emissions at the expense of everything else. I don't like being lied to.

As to whether VW cares about their customers and will do the right thing with the repair, they have already demonstrated how they operate. But it's really not what they want to do that matters, it's what they can do. VW is coming apart at the seams and has to stop the bleeding. At an added cost of $3 billion, they simply cannot afford to buy Gen 2 cars back.
 
#9,399 ·
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