If not the T3 TDI, then what?

quattrohead · Oct 12, 2016

Too true, I have bought a Saab 9-5 Aero wagon on the cheap and fixing it up now, will be a great replacement and no more payments.
I like the Touareg but not $500/m like.

nblanton said:
Well, I'm glad I kept my two old cars. I'll take the money and drive my 1995 XJ 2-door 4.0L 5 speed or my 1985 190D 5-speed.

All these options suck.

2blueyam · Oct 12, 2016

Well this should be interesting for some fodder. If the buyback occurs, I may very well put the Sorrento on my test drive list. Tows 5000lb, price is reasonable, reports are they have been reliable and it will fit in my garage. 4 runner and F-pace are the only others that fit. Most utes that tow 5k won't fit in my garage very well. If I give up on the garage, a Ridgeline moves to the top of the list.

skyfree · Oct 13, 2016

MtnPass said:
The magazine "trailer life" had an interesting article about the Chevy Colorado. We get the magazine and I found a link to the article:

Overachievers
I think you would find it interesting.

They have many positive comments and these are some of the concerns :
"Chevy still has some work to do to make the interior more comfortable. The seats are not only firm, but also narrow, and the driver’s seat is offset to the right. That means sitting on the left bolster to be directly in front of the wheel, which feels like driving with a thick wallet in your back pocket. The upholstery is a sort of woven vinyl that doesn’t breathe very well in hot weather, and the climate-control system didn’t help matters; in Auto mode, it seemed like we were constantly fiddling with the fan speed to make it cooler.

But the biggest offender, at least from an ergonomic standpoint, is the four-wheel-drive control; it is located on the left side of the wheel, right next to the headlight knob, and is exactly the same size and shape. Putting it on the center console (like almost every other four-wheel-drive vehicle) would make a lot more sense."

I am giving some strong consideration to the Silverado 2500 now...

I actually drove the Colorado and didn't notice the ergonomic issues, but I plan to do it again and will look out for them now that I know. Don't care about the 4WD control being on the left. At least it's a button instead of a floor mounted shifter like my old truck.

Of course a mid-sized truck is in no way a direct replacement for a Touareg. I kind of need a truck once in a while to haul building materials and other stuff so that would be nice. The downside (and it's a BIG one) is driving comfort. An SUV suits us better in almost every way, but we will give thought to the truck option when the time comes.

Lastly, I wouldn't buy or not buy a vehicle based on an article in Trailerlife. The RV crowd is pretty universally opposed to anything other than a 3/4 or 1-ton truck because they are always buying bigger and bigger trailers on a never ending upgrade path to 30+ ft monsters. If that is what you need to tow, then by all means get a heavy duty truck and don't mess around with the lightweight trucks.

MtnPass · Oct 13, 2016

My post was about a recent review and not particularly a promotion of the magazine. The author seem to provide a fair assessment of the truck.

Our last vehicle was a 2011 Silverado 2500 diesel the was pulling a 12000lb trailer. It did the job perfectly with no issues or repairs.

In our case we scaled down to the Touareg and a small travel trailer towing 4000lbs about 2000 miles a year.

The Touareg has not worked out quite as well. We have over-heating issues while towing and we have replaced Adblue injector, drive shaft bearings, timing chain tensioner, and more.

So where is the right balance of power, durability, size and capability? SUV, Mid-size truck, f150, another Diesel 2500. This will be a hard decision at some point.

nickyt · Oct 13, 2016

First Drive: 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee | Automobile Magazine

skyfree · Oct 13, 2016

MtnPass said:
My post was about a recent review and not particularly a promotion of the magazine. The author seem to provide a fair assessment of the truck.

Our last vehicle was a 2011 Silverado 2500 diesel the was pulling a 12000lb trailer. It did the job perfectly with no issues or repairs.

In our case we scaled down to the Touareg and a small travel trailer towing 4000lbs about 2000 miles a year.

The Touareg has not worked out quite as well. We have over-heating issues while towing and we have replaced Adblue injector, drive shaft bearings, timing chain tensioner, and more.

So where is the right balance of power, durability, size and capability? SUV, Mid-size truck, f150, another Diesel 2500. This will be a hard decision at some point.

Makes sense. I bet you will get a bigger trailer soon and need that 2500. Back in late 2013 I passed on a new 2012 F250 XLT short bed extended cab with the 6.7 diesel that had been sitting on the lot for more than a year. I had negotiated a price of $37K and almost pulled the trigger but I wanted to get a longbed F350 dually so I could get a bigger truck camper. Huge mistake. That truck would have been much easier to live with than my F350 which was too big and generally uncomfortable for non truck-camper use.

JettaGetUpandGo · Oct 16, 2016

Slightly more on topic: my plan is to replace the Touareg with a 2-3 year old Allroad as my needs have changed a bit. I test drove the Alltrack today since the local dealership finally got one in. On paper, a new SEL is similar to a used 2014 Premium Plus. In actuality, the seating position in the Alltrack feels way too high (seat was lowered all the way), the seats were stiff to the point of being unbearable, and while the DSG is nice, the 170 hp 1.8T is so underpowered it could hardly move itself out if its own way. I think it will be a great Outback competitor (which is also underpowered and paired with a CVT), but it doesn't hold a candle to the Allroad.

skyfree · Oct 16, 2016

I had an A4 Avant that was a fantastic vehicle. Too bad they lifted it to make the Allroad and don't sell the Avant any more, but I would consider it if I didn't have to tow.

JettaGetUpandGo · Oct 16, 2016

skyfree said:
I had an A4 Avant that was a fantastic vehicle. Too bad they lifted it to make the Allroad and don't sell the Avant any more, but I would consider it if I didn't have to tow.

That's what lowering springs/coilovers are for.

I believe any B8 quattro suspension will fit it. The Alltrack will be a little different unless the suspension is the same as the Golf R.

E55AMG · Oct 19, 2016

had a quick ride in a '14 Range Rover Sport last night. i like the truck and would be one i'd consider depending on how dieselgate plays out. I am concerned about RR reliability. i'll have the opportunity to take it out for a drive myself.

I am very picky about seats (don't like my Treg seats) and prefer a snug, firm, supportive seat. Best seats ever were in my 997 turbo. The RR seats were much firmer and offered more lumbar and contoured support. Great news! bad news was that the seat bottom seemed very short. meaning back of my legs were hanging off. that could be deal breaker for me and will have to drive it.

Was on a relatively smooth road but was comfortable and rode fine. not a surprise but the NAV/electronics seemed like from last century. i understand the new cars have been updated?

Stabone33 · Oct 19, 2016

E55AMG said:
had a quick ride in a '14 Range Rover Sport last night. i like the truck and would be one i'd consider depending on how dieselgate plays out. I am concerned about RR reliability. i'll have the opportunity to take it out for a drive myself.

I am very picky about seats (don't like my Treg seats) and prefer a snug, firm, supportive seat. Best seats ever were in my 997 turbo. The RR seats were much firmer and offered more lumbar and contoured support. Great news! bad news was that the seat bottom seemed very short. meaning back of my legs were hanging off. that could be deal breaker for me and will have to drive it.

Was on a relatively smooth road but was comfortable and rode fine. not a surprise but the NAV/electronics seemed like from last century. i understand the new cars have been updated?

I think the '17 will get the 10" InControl Touch Pro screen, which is Jag's and is much faster and smoother, with more features. I think their seats are superb - they're not as good as Volvo (like being ensconced in a warm, gentle Swedish hug - almost a zero-gravity feeling), but they feel way better than my Touareg. I'm average height and shaped a bit like a running back, only a little softer. :neutral:

Are you considering a '14 or a new '16/'17? Since their update in 2014, they've won awards for initial quality (Strategic Vision / 2015), best residual sales value, have been top-rated by Edmunds.com. JD Power shows they're improving reliability-wise (2016 was rated "about average" in overall quality, 2015 was "the rest" and 2014 curiously has no ratings - probably due to lack of data).

Consumer reports admits they have limited data but does comment on low overall brand reliability - with ~85k annual worldwide sales on the RRS, any sample size is going to be small. Everything I read cites CR as rating them low in "predicted reliability" but there's little data on *actual* reliability. I've poked around their ClubTouareg equivalent but haven't seen anything worse than on this forum. Since online forums will naturally have more "I have a problem..." posts, I don't think you can really judge based on that, but you can get an idea of common problems. Haven't really seen any jump out, and most users have older models anyway.

E55AMG · Oct 19, 2016

Stabone33 said:
I think the '17 will get the 10" InControl Touch Pro screen, which is Jag's and is much faster and smoother, with more features. I think their seats are superb - they're not as good as Volvo (like being ensconced in a warm, gentle Swedish hug - almost a zero-gravity feeling), but they feel way better than my Touareg. I'm average height and shaped a bit like a running back, only a little softer. :neutral:

Are you considering a '14 or a new '16/'17? Since their update in 2014, they've won awards for initial quality (Strategic Vision / 2015), best residual sales value, have been top-rated by Edmunds.com. JD Power shows they're improving reliability-wise (2016 was rated "about average" in overall quality, 2015 was "the rest" and 2014 curiously has no ratings - probably due to lack of data).

Consumer reports admits they have limited data but does comment on low overall brand reliability - with ~85k annual worldwide sales on the RRS, any sample size is going to be small. Everything I read cites CR as rating them low in "predicted reliability" but there's little data on *actual* reliability. I've poked around their ClubTouareg equivalent but haven't seen anything worse than on this forum. Since online forums will naturally have more "I have a problem..." posts, I don't think you can really judge based on that, but you can get an idea of common problems. Haven't really seen any jump out, and most users have older models anyway.

if i were to get anything it would be newest model. again, this is based on what happens with the 3.0 Treg. thanks for the insight on reliability rankings. sounds like things are improving - however, was just on a RR discussion forum and noted a new post from a guy complaining about why RR can't improve their quality LOL. i agree with you, more people will come to forums to complain rather than say how great things are.

i will visit local RR dealer in next day or so to check it out more closely. when i first got in i was like "AAhhh, this is a nice seat". like i said though, the seat bottom feels a bit short and that is something i have a hard time with.

it's either RR or Q7 at this point. i much prefer look of RR. Any thoughts RR diesel? is that a RR engine, or a Ford derivative?

Stabone33 · Oct 20, 2016

E55AMG said:
it's either RR or Q7 at this point. i much prefer look of RR. Any thoughts RR diesel? is that a RR engine, or a Ford derivative?

The diesel is the only one I would get, actually. I like the torque for off-road driving and the fuel economy for highway cruising, which is why I got one in the Treg. I've driven the 3.0 super-six gasser in the F-Pace and it's well-matched in that vehicle, but I think the Jag is quite a bit lighter.

The Td6 engine is a Ford/Peugeot joint effort and has been powering RR's and Fords (and I guess Peugeot's) in Europe for years and makes up over 90% of RR Sport sales there - virtually the same specs as the latest VAG TDI. Same one that will be in the new Disco and supposedly the 2018 F150 also. New for the RR Sport in NA for 2016, so of course there's no reliability data, but I would guess that engine would be more durable than the 3.0 gasser. And it supposedly only gives up 0.2sec to 60 on paper. My local dealer claims their full-fat 6300lb Range Rover (the big baller Ranger that can't be found for under $100k) will top 30mpg on the highway with that engine, so if that's true, a RR Sport should do a bit better IMO. The 8-speed ZF transmission is nice too. Both MB and BMW use it.

nickm · Oct 23, 2016

MtnPass said:
My post was about a recent review and not particularly a promotion of the magazine. The author seem to provide a fair assessment of the truck.

Our last vehicle was a 2011 Silverado 2500 diesel the was pulling a 12000lb trailer. It did the job perfectly with no issues or repairs.

In our case we scaled down to the Touareg and a small travel trailer towing 4000lbs about 2000 miles a year.

The Touareg has not worked out quite as well. We have over-heating issues while towing and we have replaced Adblue injector, drive shaft bearings, timing chain tensioner, and more.

So where is the right balance of power, durability, size and capability? SUV, Mid-size truck, f150, another Diesel 2500. This will be a hard decision at some point.

The new aluminum body f250 drives a lot smaller than previous versions. If you live in a rural or semi rural area and don't venture into congested urban centres then it's tough to beat the near 1000 lb-ft of torque from the 6.7 diesel. The upper trim levels are extremely nice inside.

Ford keeps delaying the f150 diesel as it doesn't make any economic sense. The 10 speed ecoboost version out powers and out torques the diesel across the board, while getting fuel economy within a couple of mpg...this economy advantage is washed away by the lower cost of 87 octane vs diesel. Not really worth it when you consider the added costs of emmissions systems for the small diesel. the big gassers also can pull 12,000 vs the 3.0 speculated to be closer to the 8000lb range.

I'm happy with my f150, its doesn't tow as effortlessly as my f250/ your 2500, but it's a good compromise for driving around unhitched. The towing features like auto backup, built in brake controller and myriad of other towing goodies eclipse pretty much everything out there.

Stabone33 · Nov 7, 2016

Ben Collins ("The Stig") + Range Rover Sport = awesome.

https://youtu.be/AzNOXjpr_i4

BenTDI · Dec 26, 2016

Man, if VW offers me the clean retail plus whatever else for my 2012 Exec, I'll have a true First World Problem of deciding to take the payoff vs keeping the TDI which I do really like if not love.

The choices out there still are not that great for me.

I want a diesel now that I've gotten the taste of this "tainted" TDI and so far, my choices are still these for a diesel truck as I don't see gas getting anywhere near the mileage that the other TDI's get. My wife has her 2015 TDI so I really don't need another vehicle that I really need the tow capacity for my boat as I do need a 7,000 lb tow rating to get the thing around but these have been the same choices for me since day 1. I am almost free to get anything if I were to take the buyback money that VW may be offering us/me.

Jeep Grand Cherokee with the EcoDiesel-I think they look good but the vehicles just don't do it for me with so many out there.

Ram 1500 with an EcoDiesel. The 1500 still gets T3 TDI-like mileage with their motor and I'd rather get the big, massive pickup than the JGC if it came down to it but the truck would barely fit in my garage if I did get it as I'd need to get the 4-door truck to fit everyone in and the more I think about it, I don't need a full size pickup truck-unless some day my kids get into dirtbikes/ATV's or snowmobiles like I am but I could always just get a trailer and save all the money on an air-hauler.

GMC Canyon-smaller than a fullsize with good diesel MPG, again, smaller inside than the T3 and still an air hauler.

I have tossed around the idea of a convertible camaro, mustang-both with their turbo4 motors or a S5 cabriolet-or whatever big convertible Audi makes but as I have a dual sport Beta on the way at the end of next month, the need for fun in the sun is being covered.

Now, the RR Sport HSE with the 3.0L TDI?, tows 7,000+, $72,000+, if I got around $36,xxx for my TDI, I could finance the other half . . . is a new Range Rover as good, as reliable as our TDI's?

First world problem indeed.

Stabone33 · Dec 26, 2016

BenTDI said:
.

Now, the RR Sport HSE with the 3.0L TDI?, tows 7,000+, $72,000+, if I got around $36,xxx for my TDI, I could finance the other half . . . is a new Range Rover as good, as reliable as our TDI's?

First world problem indeed.

Indeed.

I've spent quite a bit of time perusing the Jeepforum.com pages in the WK2 Grand Cherokee section, and let me just say, what a f*cking disaster that vehicle is. Looks great, seems to be a good value for the capability (minus towing, which is much less than the Touareg and seems to be much less than the diesel and a solid off-road capable frame should be able to handle). But when owners are reporting oil leaks, transmission failures, panel and hood/trunk misalignment to the point that the rear hatch won't close less than a year after purchase...No thanks. Some are experiencing these things days or weeks after purchase. It's nice to see that Jeep has social media relations people crawling all over the forum, but they're very busy for a reason. Oh...And the 2017's still aren't certified for sale by the EPA yet, with no date available...And they're in a class-action lawsuit over emissions as well.

I have also spent a bit of time on the rangerovers.net forum for L494 RR Sport's, and they seem relatively trouble-free, at least nothing that hasn't been able to be fixed by software flashes via service notice (some air suspension trouble and some faulty DPF fluid quality alerts). That design has been around now for a few years (2014 in NA) and the diesel Td6 engine has been sold in Europe for a couple years. LR's are now winning initial quality awards for luxury brands, but due to low numbers on the road they still can't get past Consumer Reports who dings them consistently for "impressions" of low reliability that "can't be disproven due to lack of data."

Add in the fact that a true luxury automaker will always provide you with a loaner - something even our Volvo dealer has stopped doing - and I think it's a winner in terms of direct comparison to what my Touareg has been for us.

I may lease one for next to nothing for 36 months or so and wait for the new Defender to come over and have a year under its belt. Or I may pull the trigger on a Disco next year some time...Despite its Ford Explorer-esque looks, it looks pretty capable too.

BenTDI · Dec 26, 2016

Stabone33 said:
Indeed.

I've spent quite a bit of time perusing the Jeepforum.com pages in the WK2 Grand Cherokee section, and let me just say, what a f*cking disaster that vehicle is. Looks great, seems to be a good value for the capability (minus towing, which is much less than the Touareg and seems to be much less than the diesel and a solid off-road capable frame should be able to handle). But when owners are reporting oil leaks, transmission failures, panel and hood/trunk misalignment to the point that the rear hatch won't close less than a year after purchase...No thanks. Some are experiencing these things days or weeks after purchase. It's nice to see that Jeep has social media relations people crawling all over the forum, but they're very busy for a reason. Oh...And the 2017's still aren't certified for sale by the EPA yet, with no date available...And they're in a class-action lawsuit over emissions as well.

I have also spent a bit of time on the rangerovers.net forum for L494 RR Sport's, and they seem relatively trouble-free, at least nothing that hasn't been able to be fixed by software flashes via service notice (some air suspension trouble and some faulty DPF fluid quality alerts). That design has been around now for a few years (2014 in NA) and the diesel Td6 engine has been sold in Europe for a couple years. LR's are now winning initial quality awards for luxury brands, but due to low numbers on the road they still can't get past Consumer Reports who dings them consistently for "impressions" of low reliability that "can't be disproven due to lack of data."

Add in the fact that a true luxury automaker will always provide you with a loaner - something even our Volvo dealer has stopped doing - and I think it's a winner in terms of direct comparison to what my Touareg has been for us.

I may lease one for next to nothing for 36 months or so and wait for the new Defender to come over and have a year under its belt. Or I may pull the trigger on a Disco next year some time...Despite its Ford Explorer-esque looks, it looks pretty capable too.

Thanks for that Stabone.

I had heard/read some things about the JGC but now, based on what you have found, I'm going to permanently scratch anything with the EcoDiesel off my list.

The RR will be at the top of my list if I decide to sell mine. If I get anything close to $40K, I'll have to do it.

Mark Dreyer · Dec 26, 2016

When I bought my 2010 Touareg TDI as my DD, I was also using it to tow 6000 lb trailer and race car on track weekends. I now use a track services company, so no longer need the towing feature. Over the 6 years and 125k miles, I've really enjoyed the Touareg platform, and am strongly considering getting another one in the base V6 configuration after the buyback. Can I expect similar ride quality, reliability, and general ownership enjoyment out of the base model? I'm also considering a Cayenne and a Macan, as I'm a Porsche nut. However, I'm not sure paying the badge premium is worth it given how wonderful this 2010 has been. Comments appreciated.

fincher · Dec 26, 2016

I'm looking at a Macan, too. If I do it, I will order a 2018 in the spring. Debating 2.0 vs. S versions. Also considering the refreshed Q5 coming next year, V6 Touareg Wolfsburg or the next-gen Touareg.

I think the V6 Touareg has similar ride characteristics as the TDI version, i.e., rock-solid.

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If not the T3 TDI, then what?

quattrohead

2blueyam

skyfree

MtnPass

nickyt

skyfree

JettaGetUpandGo

skyfree

JettaGetUpandGo

E55AMG

Stabone33

E55AMG

Stabone33

nickm

Stabone33

BenTDI

Stabone33

BenTDI

Mark Dreyer

fincher

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