[dragonspirit]

Hi all,

I have a 2004 V6 with 168k km (about 100k miles) on it. At last checkup my mech said I should be getting ready to shell out about $4k in parts and labor to replace the timing chain components, as these things get stretched out and can lead to complete engine failure (valved meeting pistons), leading to even costlier repair. Needless to say this got me by surprise as I thought chains were used specifically to ensure extreme durability and long life.... Anyway, I searched high and low and I just can't find any info suggesting that the timing chain mechanism does require replacement at around 100k miles. I know there is some sort of 208-209 parameter that should make this clear, and I will look for this next week when I bring the truck in for a checkup, but I just wanted to get a heads up from people who may have had similar experience.

Noise and power wise the engine seems ok, the only slight rattle sound I can detect comes at around 2.8-3.5k rpms, and mostly if i floor it. Easing off the gas pedal the rattle disappears. Its not a very noisy rattle, and its been there for months, if not longer...

Thanks for any input!

 

[johnsc2]

Timing chains can stretch over time but are not supposed to. It all depends on how often you change your oil and if yours uses any oil. People and VW will tell u to change oil every 10k...well after working in the field for the past 15+ years I can say that's a bunch of crap. Once the polymers in the oil breakdown (they start to right away and are typically gone by 5k) then the oil turns corrosive and causes lots of issues in engines. Once the oil does not lubricate the chain the chain starts to stretch and each little link starts to wear. It doesn't have to wear much to cause issues because there are lots of links in a chain so u need to multiply the stretch of each link by the number of links. And it only has to equal about 20mm total to cause issues. All I got to say to people with chains is change your oil... I'd say every 5k.... You shouldn't have issues with the chain then.

 

[noobytoogy]

The timing chain has indeed stretched on some 3.2 gassers but not all and I would not regard it as a service item.

Where the chain has started rattling, one fix has been to remove and re-prime the chain's hydraulic tensioner.

There is a thread or two on here and elsewhere about that.

I'll see if I can find it.

 

[dragonspirit]

Timing chains can stretch over time but are not supposed to. .

Thanks for your reply. I try to stick to 6-7k between oil changes, because a lot of time is spent idling in traffic so the odometer doesnt accurately reflect actual engine mileage. This is also why I thought it was strange that I'd need to replace the chains and all the tensioners, etc.... just didnt make sense. Having said that, my mech has been servicing the car for 5 years now, and mostly did a good job, so I am a little at odds with this news. Perhaps this is what they call "common practice" here, because I have not found any info relating to timning chain replacement in the english language part of the web, but in Russia this seems to be the case with every other V6 Touareg.... go figure!

Anyway, thanks for your advice!

 

[dragonspirit]

Nooby, thanks for the info. The chain rattles a little bit, but again, its been that way for longer than I can remember... and I cant remember if that was the case when I got the car (used) back in 2007.

Nevertheless, re-priming the tensioner would still involve lifting the engine out, no? So basically the labour part of this excercise would still be about the same.... or is this something that can be accessed easier?

 

[noobytoogy]

No. My understanding is that you can get to the tensioner without dropping the engine which is which it's a lower cost possible fix.

I'm pretty sure others have done the chain without removing the engine.

 

[Butzj1]

Ok. Since I apparently am too dense to figure out how to start my own thread, I will jump on this one. I have an 04 Reg v6. Just had the chains, sprockets and tensioners replaced. one of the sprockets broke a tooth and I guess that is what caused the slip. The shop got the engine all back together and reinstalled. Good compression. Good fuel delivery, good spark. Will not run. Could it be the cam and crank sensors? Any help would be great.

 

[zwhitey]

I too had a 2006 3.2 V6, and the engine management light kept coming on after a day or two, and my garage were of the opinion that the timing chain had stretched, and that this was causing the problem. But it was quiet and sooth, but if I satarted it cold and then turned off before warm, when restarted it ran like a pig and needed about 20 mins to readjust itself, and had done this for several years.

Had I known about life of oils I would have changed every 6 or 7k miles, but it was normally 10/15k miles. Had I done this then probably the chain wouldnt have stretched. I was also doing quite alot of short 3 mile journeys.

However I loved the car, it towed like a dream , was thirsty but a lovely smooth comfortable vehicel. Only gripes were seemingly incurable water leak, crap heater untill it was very warm, footwell vents poor.

So I sold it, as I was very concerned that vehicle would not be the same after an engine gearbox out job. Would I have another ? on balance yes but not cheap UK £480.

Will be interested to learn if Dragon Spirit has the timing chain replaced and the cost

 

[akyadayada]

I have a 04 Touareg V6 with about 110,000 miles on it. The check engine light came on about 8 months ago and at that time the deal recommended replacing the timing chain for $7,100. the car ran great so we ignored the light.

Last week the car drove into the driveway just fine but would not start the next morning. found out that the car has "jumped time" and again $7,100 to replace the timing chain. No damage was done to the valves or pistons according to the dealership. I called around and found an import shop that will do the work for $4,500. they start on it next Monday.

 

[tadpole]

10yr extended warrantys, yet another example where $3000 paid will have yielded big dividends. These cars are big time trouble if they have problems. Extended coverage can be purchased any time after the regular warranty is done. Sleep well and don't worry. I hate reading these types of stories. If they don't offer extended warrantys in Russia,then You're left to the mercy of the replacement mkt,I guess

 

[G6mdxvct]

Nooby, thanks for the info. The chain rattles a little bit, but again, its been that way for longer than I can remember... and I cant remember if that was the case when I got the car (used) back in 2007.

Nevertheless, re-priming the tensioner would still involve lifting the engine out, no? So basically the labour part of this excercise would still be about the same.... or is this something that can be accessed easier?

From my experience if the upper chain is stretched you will get a CEL and camshaft position errors. Car will perform relatively well but will have a barely perceptible idle skip but not enough to throw a CEL. If you hear what appears to be a marbles in a can rolling around the chain has issues. If the noise does not go away once oil temp and coolant are warm would be more concerned. Not uncommon to hear some rattle at initial start up until the oil pressure picks up. The chain tensioners operate by hydraulic pressure. The upper tensioner is on the outside of the back of block on the passenger side. Behind and below the throttle body. It looks like a bolt, think 22mm. Costs like $80 for new. You can unscrew the tensioner, clean, re-prime the cylinder and reinstall. The tensioner is essentially a bolt with a hollow cylinder and piston and spring. It has a very small hole for oil to enter the cylinder and push out the piston against the chain guide to tension. Just bought a new one because mine was out of plumb with the cylinder. It helped, however still have a rattle until the car is warm. Runs like a top after that, but have a CEL. Camshaft position correlation errors both banks. The only way to fix will be pull engine and replace guides, chains, guides, tensioners and perhaps camshaft adjusters for safe measure. The only way to change the lower chain tensioner is pull the engine. I am amazed how well the ECM, and camshaft adjusters can operate the car relatively well with camshaft deviations caused by a loose upper chain.

 

[MRHEAT]

I have a 2007 3.6 and I bought it almost 2 years ago with a cpo warranty with 55,000 miles on it , on a cold start the motor had a rattle that was getting worse and louder , I finally got the dealer to take a good look at it and with 77,000 on the clock they replaced all the timing chains and adjusters the oil pump and pump gear and now the motor runs great and is super quiet , and it pulls like a muther up in the mountains here in Denver. The mechanic put in almost 40 hours of labor on the job and the dealer even ate my 50.00 dollar deductible.

 

[G6mdxvct]

I have a 2007 3.6 and I bought it almost 2 years ago with a cpo warranty with 55,000 miles on it , on a cold start the motor had a rattle that was getting worse and louder , I finally got the dealer to take a good look at it and with 77,000 on the clock they replaced all the timing chains and adjusters the oil pump and pump gear and now the motor runs great and is super quiet , and it pulls like a muther up in the mountains here in Denver. The mechanic put in almost 40 hours of labor on the job and the dealer even ate my 50.00 dollar deductible.

Great you did not have to pay. VW dealer here charges $6,800 if they also replace the adjusters, about 1K less without. If you want to keep it running well change the oil more frequently than indicated in the manual. Wonder if you had a pump gear that was not properly heat treated. Know of cases where the teeth wore down putting a lot of slack in the chain from the gear to the camshafts.

 

[MRHEAT]

This is what my gear looked like

 

[G6mdxvct]

This is what my gear looked like

Cam chain gear looks fine and the gear behind on the oil pump looks new? Is this the before picture? Looks like an after?

 

[MRHEAT]

This is before any work was done , I think Vw of A was hoping it was the oil pump bolt but when they saw all looked good they gave the dealer the ok to replace everything .