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Timing chain question

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bshagen9

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Got an 04 touareg with the 4.2 v8. Started to notice a rattle on initial start up and then when letting go of the throttle. This started with an error code initially related to bank one (can't recall the code), changed the camshaft sensor on that side and didn't get the code again, but rattle was still there.
Took the covers off to check timing. Locked the crankshaft in place, but the two camshaft flywheel did not allign (I have two white marks and one red on each flywheel (seems to be about 5 - 10 degrees off). Chain feels tight and I don't see any damage (on the top at least). After removing the belt, if I use the tool on the camshaft wheels and get it to fit the alignment marks lines up perfectly.
Question I have is, should I replace the chains, or just replace the old timing belts and rollers?
 
#2 ·
When you lock the crankshaft @ tdc using the locking pin tool, the camshaft must be aligned. If they are not, you must re-time them using the camshaft locking bar tool. Also, when the camshaft locking bar is installed you should see if the intake and exhaust camshafts on both banks are matching the marks on the cam bearing caps (the camshafts have small square mark and it must match the triangle marks on the bearing caps). Here's the engine manual, follow all the steps, including the procedure for tensing the new belt using the 5mm and 7mm drill bits.

If you need new camshaft tensioners use the vaico brand (or bapmic, but vaico is the first choice)... New chains as well...(new half moons, new camshaft adjuster gaskets and new valve cover gaskets)...

PS. In the manual there is a "16 roller rule" for the chain length between the intake and exhaust cams, which is fine, but the above mentioned mark alignment is with priority over this rule. So basically align the square to the triangle marks and that is how it should be. You can count for your reference the roller numbers too, but don't rely only on it...
 

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Discussion starter · #3 ·
lachoradkov said:
When you lock the crankshaft @ tdc using the locking pin tool, the camshaft must be aligned. If they are not, you must re-time them using the camshaft locking bar tool. Also, when the camshaft locking bar is installed you should see if the intake and exhaust camshafts on both banks are matching the marks on the cam bearing caps (the camshafts have small square mark and it must match the triangle marks on the bearing caps). Here's the engine manual, follow all the steps, including the procedure for tensing the new belt using the 5mm and 7mm drill bits.

If you need new camshaft tensioners use the vaico brand (or bapmic, but vaico is the first choice)... New chains as well...(new half moons, new camshaft adjuster gaskets and new valve cover gaskets)...

PS. In the manual there is a "16 roller rule" for the chain length between the intake and exhaust cams, which is fine, but the above mentioned mark alignment is with priority over this rule. So basically align the square to the triangle marks and that is how it should be. You can count for your reference the roller numbers too, but don't rely only on it...
Click to expand...
Greatly appreciate the response. Though the chains both initially seemed tight, after I used the tool to lock the cam shafts I noticed that the driver's side chain was lose and could be pulled up about 1/4 inch. Looks like I'll be replacing the chains.
Manual you provided will help a lot when doing this task.
 
#4 ·
The “tightness” of the chain is achieved by the cam adjusters, which are hydraulic. That doesn’t show you the chain stretch… inspect the adjusters top and bottom plastic shoes and if you need replacements you’ll get new chains too…if there are missing pieces from the plastix shoes make sure you take them out…
VCDS shows all the related values in measuring blocks 91,92,93 but since you disassembled everything you can check them after the repair to confirm everything is in specs…
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Thanks again for the feedback.
Taking the camshafts and chain assemblies out is our next task. Currently working on getting a screw for the water pump out that decided to snapp off during removal. Hoping to be able to get it out without needing to rethread. Most of the screws had a lot of rust on them, so will be replacing all of them to be on the safe side.
I do have replacement parts for the timing chains. Since I'll be removing them, do you recommend changing them if they do not show signs of damage or excessive wear (vehicle has about 155,000 miles)?
 
#6 ·
If they were never changed I would replace them. The plastic is getting brittle over the time, mine were broken and I had pieces laying around…if they break in the next 10-20k miles you’ll have to do everything again…
Don’t throw away you oem tensioners, since they don’t make them anymore. My v8 is running timed at 16 rollers on the one side and 15 rollers on the other…I made a long thread a while ago explaining the issue. I don’t have definitive answer how is this even possible…
I have read that the plastic shoes could be replaced but I don’t know how and if it’s a good option compared to buying new tensioners, but it would be definitely cheaper…
Water pump replacement is great since you are there, thermostat too.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Thanks again.
I'll keep the original tensioners as you suggested.
I'm pretty much replacing a lot of things on this vehicle.
Replacing, belts, rollers, tensioners, timing chains, seals, gaskets, water pump, thermostat, spark plugs, camshaft sensors, was going to replace the crankshaft sensor, but can't seem to figure out where the wire goes or connects to the backside of the engine, have to think about that.
Hoping that this will take care of the rattle sound.
If so, then it's on to tackle a bunch of electrical issues with the vehicle (airbag warning light stability control warning light, headlight auto level issues, check brake light, etc.). Hopefully most of these are straight forward fixes due to the vehicle sitting unused for quote awhile.
Fun to drive, not nessecarily fun to work on.
 
#8 ·
The crankshaft sensor in behind the engine at driver’s side… little tricky to get it unhooked, I played with it for couple of hours from the top and from underneath the vehicle but finally managed to change it…
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Another question.
How in the world is the fly wheel coming off the camshafts. Got a pulley and tried to remove, but not moving at all.
Got the bolt, washer, and alignment tool piece off, but wheel is not moving when using the pulley tool.
Am I missing something?
 
#12 ·
They should pop out with the puller tool. I am screwing in the cam bolt almost to the end (so there is space the gear to pop out) and center the tool on the bolt. Beware where you grab the gear with the arms of the tool…
 
#15 · (Edited)
lachoradkov said:
The crankshaft sensor in behind the engine at driver’s side… little tricky to get it unhooked, I played with it for couple of hours from the top and from underneath the vehicle but finally managed to change it…
Click to expand...
lachoradkov said:
If they were never changed I would replace them. The plastic is getting brittle over the time, mine were broken and I had pieces laying around…if they break in the next 10-20k miles you’ll have to do everything again…
Don’t throw away you oem tensioners, since they don’t make them anymore. My v8 is running timed at 16 rollers on the one side and 15 rollers on the other…I made a long thread a while ago explaining the issue. I don’t have definitive answer how is this even possible…
I have read that the plastic shoes could be replaced but I don’t know how and if it’s a good option compared to buying new tensioners, but it would be definitely cheaper…
Water pump replacement is great since you are there, thermostat too.
Click to expand...
Question for you: I had my water pump replaced last year. I took my 2004 treg to a new mechanic and he said the timing belt was way to lose. The car had sat for an hour or so before he looked at it. I took the car back to the mechanic that did the water pump replacement and the belt was tight, as i had just driven 30 minutes to get to his shop and the car was warm. He said the belt was fine and they had done the whole water pump kit per vw audi.

who is in the right?

Heres a link of the video showing the fit on the belt if i did it right video
 
#16 ·
Your link doesn’t work, upload it in YouTube

Also look up the link I posted above with the engine manual, you can find the procedure for tensing the belt using 5mm and 7mm drill bits… you can ask the mechanic if he follow them…
 
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Arbowles87
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