Sorry, the 505.00 was a typo. I should have written 504.00.

 

All I can say is that I have bought many "good deals" Mechanics Specials" where the owner saved a few bucks using the cheaper oils. With the tech VAG puts into there engines & being a former race engine builder, I wouldn't roll the dice.
VAG is known for using pro prioritized processes for there bearing and cylinder surface treatments.

I wouldn't doubt the minds that brought us the Bugatti 300+mph V-12, not just to save a few bucks.

 

Honestly in an $80k car, just use the good stuff. What's a couple extra bucks per change? Castrol all day here.

 

I have always purchased my oil from the dealer as I get a pretty hefty discount from them. It is now in VW branded packaging and it is now Mobil 1. It is also less $$ than the Castrol I purchased there.

 

I see your point.

However, I see things a bit differently...

If these 50 EUR/USD dropped from your wallet, you'd pick them up. It's a similar idea.

And another question is: "why would I reward people who are trying to scam me out of my money?".

The basic and only question is pretty simple, really - do the same norms mean it's the same fluid? Why would I pay heftily extra if the only different thing about the two is the box?

The parts are pretty much the same - the only different thing is the box. Right?

I have a 2004 Audi with a 1.9 TDi engine clocking on 400,000 kms that's still running like a bat out of hell - with Shell Helix HX7 505.01 used all the time - that's dirt cheap compared to Castrol oil and recommended by Audi.

Which seems like a good example to go on.

 

I'd suggest the VW Specification is the absolute determinant for quality and suitability - then viscosity and ACEA* requirement - with brand name the least consequential.

* I know ACEA isn't mandatory in North America but this is a European car.

 

There is no definitive answer to this really. There is a russian site where a guy posted result of oil brand tests and castrol did good. There is another oil tester who claims amsoil is better. Who do you trust? No one has the tools to do all those tests to confirm. I switched from castrol edge 5w30 to ravenol for availability, price and traceability. I buy from ravenol-shop.de. I was having a hard time getting castrol off of ebay or amazon. I did buy from ebay once but you never know what you get. Amazon was selling HydroCracked castrol oil most of the time. That’s why I switched to ravenol. A video on youtube did help with the change but that was a minor influence. I always get a pack of 4 to have free shipping. I also got a pack of 20L of ATF fluid for the 09D transmission in the T1/T2. I haven’t done the service yet. I did 3 ravenol oil services on the treg already and several on my Audi.
I will post all those links so you can decide what brand you want to use.


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Link one:
Need time to go through all his stuff. Read some of his critics too.

MOTOR OIL ENGINEERING TEST DATA

….On smart phones, “Q&A” CAN NOW BE ACCESSED BY CLICKING ON THE 3 HORIZONTAL BARS IN THE UPPER LEFT HAND CORNER…..******..With so many different Blog readers coming here…

540ratblog.wordpress.com

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Check this guy’s channel for oil tests:

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I only Use Motul and have used Fuches too. Ravenol once or twice, it is a good choice too. Use a good oil and you will be fine of course that meets the spec. I tend to use only 100% synthetic, not full-synthetic.

 

The argument with the $50 falling out of your wallet... you're not getting any value for your money there. With a reputable oil which meets or exceeds OEM requirements, hopefully you are.
The big issue with the VW specs is the additive package and compatibility with emissions systems. If you use a non-approved oil and have an engine/emissions issue which is traced back to a non-approved warranty... well, that's more than $50 lost.
Oil is about alot more than some contrived pseudo-science junkyard test which feeds confirmation bias. Oil analysis is a tried and true method for checking oilperformance. Anything less is junk science. Also, you just don't know how a straight ACEA oil will perform with emissions- later VW engines restrict straight ACEA oils to no more than 0.5qt/0.5L for no more than 100 miles, requiring an oil change there after.
If you want to see if there is a newer standard approved for use in your engine, contact your VW dealer or a shop which gets regular TSBs and updates. Some newer standards are allowed, some are not backwards compatible.

 

The argument with the $50 falling out of your wallet... you're not getting any value for your money there. With a reputable oil which meets or exceeds OEM requirements, hopefully you are.
The big issue with the VW specs is the additive package and compatibility with emissions systems. If you use a non-approved oil and have an engine/emissions issue which is traced back to a non-approved warranty... well, that's more than $50 lost.
Oil is about alot more than some contrived pseudo-science junkyard test which feeds confirmation bias. Oil analysis is a tried and true method for checking oilperformance. Anything less is junk science. Also, you just don't know how a straight ACEA oil will perform with emissions- later VW engines restrict straight ACEA oils to no more than 0.5qt/0.5L for no more than 100 miles, requiring an oil change there after.
If you want to see if there is a newer standard approved for use in your engine, contact your VW dealer or a shop which gets regular TSBs and updates. Some newer standards are allowed, some are not backwards compatible.

The Shell oil I have named as an example of an equivalent meets all standards VW stated for 3.2 VR6 AZZ engines.

I agree with some part of your claims. Indeed it is about exact science. That's why I like to see facts and numbers, meaning norms and what meeting or exceeding them means in each of those examples.

That's what "reputable" stands for - at least for me.

I still haven't had a source that could tell me those facts and figures. I still haven't gone through TRespect's materials, though.

Do you have any such exact, scientific/engineering sources?

 

Well, it does feel a bit odd.

Maybe we should fight this one out not to stand out too much? 😂

Seriously, the only thing I would add to this is the possibility of half-reputable manufacturers occasionally messing up the production process or quality control.

I'm guessing Shell should be fine with that.

 

I originally thought you meant substitue a later standard for an older one- going by your title, so a bit of a misunderstanding on my part. I'm sure the questions will come up though.
I dunno that we have the problem with fake oils or not meeting standards here in the US. Most, if not all of the oils which meet VW standards are imported from Europe. One of the reasons I like LM is they keep samples of every production run, of every product they make. If there's ever a question, they can pull the sample and test it/have it tested. Cheap insurance, really. I would think all major producers would do the same?

Well, it does feel a bit odd.

Maybe we should fight this one out not to stand out too much? 😂

Seriously, the only thing I would add to this is the possibility of half-reputable manufacturers occasionally messing up the production process or quality control.

I'm guessing Shell should be fine with that.

 

And I should add buy your oil from a reputable source to avoid fake stuff.


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Fuch oil ..... German oil ... German car ?? Easy ! 😘

 

Still have to use the correct VW specification

 

Indeed. 504.00 is backwards compatible. I guess 507.00 is not in any way contrary to 504.00?

Thanks for the update.

 

I'm thinking 508 00 rather than 507 00, sorry. 508 00 specifically states it's not backwards compatible. I would still suggest checking with your dealer or independent shop which gets the latest info from VW. Anecdotally, Liqui Moly's Top Tec 4200 claims compatibility with every VW oil standard 500 00 thru 507 00
Just remember, a bigger number doesn't necessarily mean better- the different standards are for different operating environments and targets.
You wouldn't want 508 00 anyways as it's much more expensive than 507 00, $20-$30 USD more than TopTec 4200 I use in my TDI.

 

The 3.2L V6 in the Touareg calls for 0W-40, and I buy Mobil 1 for convenience. Purchased from Walmart, it runs $26-28/5 qt jug... if this is for regular US driving, I see no mean advantage to using anything else. After 100k, I still don’t burn any oil, and the engine consumes maybe a qt per 10,000 miles...

 

If it's using a qt per 1,000 miles it's either burning it or leaking it!

 

You forgot the vw specs !


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I feel that there's always a just-as-good pricey-brand replacement since these oils are a product that adhere to strict norms - meaning 505.00/507.00 and all the carefully produced ingredients it stands for. The engine is a demanding environment, no mistakes are allowed and every oil shortcoming should be soon and clearly noticeable.

Oh man! Not the dreaded 'engine oil' question again!

There are so many threads on CT that discuss all aspects of engine oils. A quick search for 'engine oil' will return hundreds of threads that espouse hundred of opinions.

Safe to stay away from engine oil brand recommendations in this forum and simply suggest that you ensure that any engine oil you use in your vehicle meets all of the Volkswagen engine oil specifications stipulated in the Volkswagen Owners Manual for your specific vehicle.

Beyond that recommendation any further engine oil discussion quickly devolves into the morass of subjective hyperbole.

Cheers!

Moto

 

I'm not sure if English is your second language, or it's a cultural difference in the use of the words, but 'norms' is not commonly used in US English. When 'norm' is used, it means average, a generally accepted practice, or a standard based on averages. It does not mean a detailed specification. So using it to represent a VW specification is confusing and possibly misleading- which is why I commented. As many other commenters have also mentioned, following the VW specification listed for your vehicle is a recommended best practice. Any other suggestion is not advised.
This forum is primarily for US users, so US English prevails.
There are far more examples of satisfied customers and competent, conscientious dealerships. Your first example is a recommendation from the OEM, not a dealership, and the second is something of an edge case- I would answer the same way. General troubleshooting principles are to resolve the known issues first, so they probably would have come to the same conclusion as you did. Hasty generalizations are not a good way to prop-up your argument.
There are many examples of people having personal- not technical or reasons of competence- to dislike a dealer. Once recent poster has a major issue with the dealer because he doesn't get a shiny new loaner which meets his every whim when scheduling a 20-minute service. Lets not confuse the issue with completely irrelevant anecdotal musings.

VW created the standards they use for good reasons. Not following those recommendations can void the warranty. Saying anything else confuses the issue and is not helpful absent direct evidence from VW or an equally reliable source.

 

I'm not sure if English is your second language, or it's a cultural difference in the use of the words, but 'norms' is not commonly used in US English. When 'norm' is used, it means average, a generally accepted practice, or a standard based on averages. It does not mean a detailed specification. So using it to represent a VW specification is confusing and possibly misleading- which is why I commented. As many other commenters have also mentioned, following the VW specification listed for your vehicle is a recommended best practice. Any other suggestion is not advised.
This forum is primarily for US users, so US English prevails.
There are far more examples of satisfied customers and competent, conscientious dealerships. Your first example is a recommendation from the OEM, not a dealership, and the second is something of an edge case- I would answer the same way. General troubleshooting principles are to resolve the known issues first, so they probably would have come to the same conclusion as you did. Hasty generalizations are not a good way to prop-up your argument.
There are many examples of people having personal- not technical or reasons of competence- to dislike a dealer. Once recent poster has a major issue with the dealer because he doesn't get a shiny new loaner which meets his every whim when scheduling a 20-minute service. Lets not confuse the issue with completely irrelevant anecdotal musings.

VW created the standards they use for good reasons. Not following those recommendations can void the warranty. Saying anything else confuses the issue and is not helpful absent direct evidence from VW or an equally reliable source.

If we're going to talk semantics, stretch examples to exaggerations and repeat items we have already cleared more than discuss points, then this discussion has reached the final point of it's usefulness.

I delivered exact examples from my experience (and part of the world), meaning I don't like seeing a liter of oil priced at 25 EUR, I don't like when a dealership recommends a new driveshaft for 1800 EUR instead of a service valued at 200 EUR plus services that do not deliver it's value for money. Not by a long shot. And so forward. The list goes on and on.

That's the way it works these days. Cars are made by managers, not engineers.

And so are related services. And I don't like it. And so do many others for a valid reason.

Of course, everybody is free to make up their own minds. And spend their time and money.

 

VW dealers will only fit VW parts which are then warranted.

In the UK that warranty covers parts and labour for one year and parts only for two years.

The warranty may be different elsewhere.

Regrettably VW don't offer a prop / drive shaft centre / center bearing as one of their official parts so it's a new shaft or go elsewhere - as many do with older VWs once they are out of factory warranty if they have any sense.

Of course if you don't like the way VW works or what they recommend then you always have a choice: you can ignore VW and do your own thing, or buy a different marque . . . and then face exactly the same discussions on all the other owners' websites!!

 

To me it's all about common sense - as you have hinted.

It's fine to charge for expertise if it can stand it's solid ground for a reasonable amount of money.

Otherwise, if customer ignorance and fear are the only basis for making money by gross overcharging, then it is regrettable.

 

I was going to add to my post that one of the problems these days are the "technicians". These guys are great at plugging into the OBDII port and fitting the brand new parts as suggested by the computer but are they really "mechanics"?

And so your post is timely because a good mechanic uses his experience AND his common sense to work out fixes as, indeed, do many of the useful contributors on here.

No one likes to.pay more than they should for anything but it's the way of the modern car dealership - they have their ever more challenging corporate targets and everyone, including the technicians, is driven by them.

Here in the UK, we have lots of independent marque specialists who are still good mechanics and whose labour rates are often half those of the main dealers so we have choice.

 

Indeed so.

It seems that common sense, knowledge, honesty and the art of the trade (and good mechanics honestly deserve those terms) are just not marketable enough.

It's good to be here. Not just for money saving purposes, but for participation in that art form.

 

Important note: the above specs are not valid for long life service intervals.


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LOL!!

 

I had to look him up first, but that's a yes!