[Titanreg]

Hi everyone,

Just joined up and apologies in advance if this issue has been covered in the past.
Ive got 2x Touareg's, one 2005 V8 4.2 and a 2009 3.0 tdi V6.

Gf was driving my 2009 3.0 V6 Tdi and decided to fill it up at the petrol station. She incorrectly filled up with Unleaded fuel instead of Diesel.
She drove the car for a short distance out of the petrol station before car stalled. Towed the car home and now wondering what the damage is. I gather will have to drain tank, flush lines, change injectors etc., wondering is this the extent of the damage? Any insight and direction would be much appreciated.

 

[Matthew Nelson]

I think this usually takes out the CP4 pump and possibly more damage downstream. I would certainly want to replace the CP4 pump and hope for the best after a complete flush.

Best of luck, tough spot.

 

[Radman]

I recently had this happen on my A6 TDI. The fuel station had mis-filled their tanks?. I was able to claim on my insurance $17k damage. In my case the dealer decided to replace the engine as it was similar cost to replace the whole fuel system. Injectors are close to $1k each x 6. The procedure is to replace the Pump, injectors, fuel lines and fuel tank to avoid future issues.

 

[Gnits]

In such a case VW would replace the whole fuel supply system, with all the lines, pumps, filters and everything. The rationale being that
1. shreds from the damaged pumps might be lingering partially embedded or stuck in any component, and if not replaced, these shreds could resume travel in the system at some later time, possibly killing any and all components downstream again
2. seals and o-rings (both internal to the components and also between them) were most likely damaged by the petrol, and might start leaking at a later time

If you replace only some of the fuel supply parts, you're risking to do the repair in vain, because of 1. above, and/or possibly have to do some additional repair, because of 2. And replacing the whole fuel system would likely cost a lot more than what the car is worth.

 

[seafarer28]

Sorry to give you bad news.

In my case parts replaced cost using genuine parts was A$13,772 (in tank pumps were not replaced) then you need to add the labour component to that.

Obviously total cost would exceed the current market value of your '09, I would say you are looking at a write off scenario in the making.

tonyB

 

[TommiT]

Talk to your insurance company and sue the girlfriend .

 

[nickyt]

Did the pump self destruct? If no, then you should be able to get by with minimal repairs.

No matter what, Put in a new high pressure pump since those things explode and glitter death the engine. They destruct even running on pure diesel. It is the one part I would not trust.

Yes, I did say glitter death. That big diesel can not withstand the effects of the glitter death. It is the human equivalent of having a stroke, a heart attack, and a gunshot wound to the head, all on the same day.

After that, flush everything and hope for the best.

 

[Phredd]

Hi everyone,

Just joined up and apologies in advance if this issue has been covered in the past.
Ive got 2x Touareg's, one 2005 V8 4.2 and a 2009 3.0 tdi V6.

Gf was driving my 2009 3.0 V6 Tdi and decided to fill it up at the petrol station. She incorrectly filled up with Unleaded fuel instead of Diesel.
She drove the car for a short distance out of the petrol station before car stalled. Towed the car home and now wondering what the damage is. I gather will have to drain tank, flush lines, change injectors etc., wondering is this the extent of the damage? Any insight and direction would be much appreciated.

DUMP THE GIRLFRIEND

 

[NTDI]

I replied to a duplicate post of yours. However if you didn’t run the vehicle far I wouldn’t be too concerned about damage. As I posted I did this to a mk4 Jetta TDI and even drove it 30 miles on gasoline. I flushed it with fresh diesel and have put another 60K on it with no issue (though the BEW uses a different type of high pressure pump).

Fortunately for you, you have a CP3 fuel pump and not a CP4. The CP3 use a crankshaft and bushing. The CP4 uses a roller on a camshaft.

You could always inspect the CP3 crankshaft for wear if you are very worried. There are numerous videos on YouTube of versions of the CP3 used on diesel trucks.

If you didn’t drive the vehicle far the chances of damaging the pump are low. Just have to flush it out enough that there is nearly zero trace of gasoline.

As I said in my other post my Jetta MK4 TDI (BEW) ran on gasoline. But wouldn’t idle due to vapor locking the injectors.

Gasoline does have some lubricity. So as long as it wasn’t run completely dry and only run for a short time flush it out and get fresh diesel in it.

You’re definitely not the only person to have this happen to you.

Duramax run on gasoline for 30 miles...

So my dad managed to fill up his 2006 Duramax with gasoline the other day and drive it 30 miles down the road before it quit. He said it had about a 1/4 tank of diesel and he filled it all the way up. He managed to get 30 miles down the road before it went into 'limp mode' in the shop...

www.pirate4x4.com

As I mentioned in the other post, if you can pump the gas out of the tank. Add a few gallons of diesel and flush again To dilute any remaining gasoline you should be able to flush the fuel filter (or replace it) and get it started again. I don’t think the common rails hold more than a few minutes worth of diesel. So if you can get fresh diesel to the high pressure fuel pump you can probably get it started (it may run rough) and in a few minutes it’ll get fresh diesel and run correctly. That is exactly what I did on my MK4. There may be a way to bleed/drain the high pressure portion of the fuel system but 1) be careful the system operates at 24,000 to 28,000 PSI (may want a ship to do this)
2) you may need to prime the high pressure pump. There may be a special way to prime it. On some vehicles the electric in tank pump primes the system when the vehicle is powered on (prior to starting). On other vehicles (like the 1st Generation GM Duramax) the CP3 contains a mechanical lift pump that needs to be primed to work properly.

 

[NTDI]

Did the pump self destruct? If no, then you should be able to get by with minimal repairs.

No matter what, Put in a new high pressure pump since those things explode and glitter death the engine. They destruct even running on pure diesel. It is the one part I would not trust.

Yes, I did say glitter death. That big diesel can not withstand the effects of the glitter death. It is the human equivalent of having a stroke, a heart attack, and a gunshot wound to the head, all on the same day.

After that, flush everything and hope for the best.

If the pump is high mileage it may be a good time to replace it. Then again if it was only run for a few minutes it can probably be flushed and re-used.

My ‘13 CNRB has a CP4. I wish it was a CP3. I always run diesel additive hoping to avoid CP4 failure......

 

[Steve_L]

Step 1. Talk to your insurance company.
Step 2. Ban girlfriend from re-fuelling your cars.

 

[Solandri]

You'll want to watch these two videos. The guy is a VW mechanic, and goes through the different possible failure modes and what's needed to fix it. The vast majority of the time, you're looking at replacing the entire fuel system.

 

[JimJ]

In the first video he talks about the HPFP being driven by the timing belt?
Also at 2:45 he talks about the HPFP being "timed along with the timing belt" and "getting the timing right"

Am I missing something about diesel engines, HPFP and timing belts??

 

[NTDI]

He is showing a CP4 style HPFP from a 2.0L TDI. The 2.0L has a timing belt and drives the pump off it.

Although the early T1/T2 may have had a timing belt to drive the fuel pump off one of the camshafts....

This cutaway confirms the 2004 3.0 TDI had a HPFP driven by the driver side camshaft via a timing belt (Audi A8 3 0 TDI quattro 4E-D3 2004 Engine Engine Cutaway)

The newer engines use a chain (I think) to drive the HPFP.

Note the camshaft. Compare it to (

)

Here's a nice animation of the CP3 (

) Note it shows the low pressure lift pump (gear pump) that GM uses on the Duramax. Not sure if the Touareg have the low pressure lift pump on the CP3 or if they only use the in tank electric pump.

It looks like there is a way to inspect the pump for metal shavings shown in the CP3 vs CP4 video.

 

[JimJ]

This cutaway confirms the 2004 3.0 TDI had a HPFP driven by the driver side camshaft via a timing belt

It is not a "timing belt".
Timing belts are used to drive a camshaft(s) from the crankshaft.

The V6 3.0 TDI, BKS, BUN, CASA, CASB, CASC, CATA have a chain drive for valve control system, balancer shaft and oil pump, not a flexible toothed belt.
However, the HPFP is driven from the cylinder bank 2 inlet camshaft via a toothed belt.

There is no "timing" required when installing the HPFP, only the correct belt tension.

 

[NTDI]

It is not a "timing belt".
Timing belts are used to drive a camshaft(s) from the crankshaft.

It’s a cogged belt, toothed belt, Gilmer belt... etc. to most people it looks like a timing belt. Call it what you will. A previous post mentioned it as a timing belt.

I can’t think of any reason a CP3. Needs to be timed.... but maybe they (VW) want it done a certain way...?

 

[JimJ]

I can’t think of any reason a CP3. Needs to be timed.... but maybe they (VW) want it done a certain way...?

There is nothing in the V6 TDI Repair Manual about timing of the HPFP when the toothed belt is installed.

I guess that it is one of the carryovers I have from writing manuals for the aviation industry. Specific parts have specific names.
I had an instance where a serviceman quoted for the replacement of the "tailshaft bush." I thought that he meant the centre bearing and rubber bushing on the propshaft.
Turns out that he meant the bonded rubber bush in the gearbox carrier.

 

[NTDI]

....

I think all this poster needs to do is flush the gas out and put fresh diesel in the tank... do this two or three times and then try to start his vehicle. If anyone knows a way to open a service port on the fuel system (safely) he can probably get almost all the gas out and it should fire up once all is flushed and sealed up again.

If it runs celebrate with some cold ones.

I doubt any real damage happened in a few short miles of driving....

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

He already said it stalled after running the gasoline. Once the car has stalled there is a VERY high likelihood of damage.

 

[NTDI]

He already said it stalled after running the gasoline. Once the car has stalled there is a VERY high likelihood of damage.

On what basis is the likelihood of damage?

1) if there is damage, what is the likelihood the entire fuel system does not need to be replaced?

2) if the entire system needs to be replaced anyway, might as well flush it out and try it anyway. What additional damage could it cause?

Gasoline does have lubricity and cooling effect.

The purpose of a lubricant like fuel or oil is to prevent metal on metal contact and to remove the heat of friction. Diesel and gasoline have similar liquid viscosity. Gasoline has a similar heat capacity, and may even be better at removing heat than diesel, hence why the vehicle won’t idle (vapor lock). The vaporization typically occurs after compression of the fuel.

I speculate for a short duration with a liquid in contact with the cam and roller follower damage is unlikely.

Again if entire system replacement is eminent what harm is there in trying a system flush, and hoping for some luck. At worst case the whole system has to be replaced anyway....