[Lars_NM]

What oil should be used on a TDI after an emissions delete?
I'm bringing this up because the changes to the oil, to prevent it from poisoning the catalysts, and the lowering of the viscosity reduced is ability to protect the engine.

It seems natural to return to the oil spec for the pre catalyst/DPF TDI's

 

[PRY4SNO]

Hotly debated topic.

Consensus is to keep using 507 because it's more advanced than most oils and actually designed for this engine.

I've typically been running Shell Rotella T6 5w40, but notice it doesn't like the cold starts (-30 to -40, and below) so use a quality 5w30 507 oil like Motul in the winter. I'm sure an oil pan heater or coolant heater will help, but haven't gotten around to installing one yet.

 

[chewblekka]

I been using T6 in my deleted ‘15 for the past 8 years. We buy it 2000L at a time at work, so I get it for like $3/L. 🤗

 

[Lars_NM]

I been using T6 in my deleted ‘15 for the past 8 years. We buy it 2000L at a time at work, so I get it for like $3/L. 🤗

what viscosity?

 

[chewblekka]

what viscosity?

5w40 of course.

 

[Lars_NM]

Hotly debated topic.

Consensus is to keep using 507 because it's more advanced than most oils and actually designed for this engine.

VW 507 oil is 5W30. 505.01 is 5W40. Before VW added DPF's VW 505.01 oil was specified. I am not sure 507 oil is more advanced, than just different than 505.01 oil. VW 507 oil is if you have a DPF and VW 505.01 oil is if you do not have a DPF.

This is a repost I wrote for another thread:
As far as oil, I am not just willy nilly changing oil, VW had a different oil for the earlier TDI's before they implemented DPF's and catalysts that was better than what they use now. The oil was changed to reduce certain metallic anti wear additives that create ash in the DPF (clogging it) and can poison the catalyst. The oil was also thinned to reduce viscosity to improve MPG. With CAFE standards in the US auto makers can be fined if their corporate average fuel economy is below a target. For this reason manufacturers went to thinner oils for better MPG. Generally these thinner, more scuff prone oils perform equivalent for the warranty period, but I don't think you will find any oil experts that will tell you they perform better in the long run. Reducing oil anti wear additives, and viscosity gets you closer to the cliff. That is clearly understood by oil experts. The question is, how close can you get to the cliff and not fall off. VW took a step closer to the cliff, because they had to, and because MPG fines would cost them more than warranty claims.

I plan to just go back to the VW 505.01 5W-40 oil listed in my owners manual as the recommended oil.

 

[C-ya]

I stuck with 507 for mine. I can usually find it for around US $5-6/qt, so I buy two 5 qt jugs. This time it was Mobil 1 ESP from Wal Mart. The extra quart gets set aside for other things or my wife or daughter's vehicle.

 

[casioqv]

I'd probably use 505.01 oils instead of 507, they should protect better and possibly allow for longer oil change intervals, without having to be DPF friendly.

 

[Anchor Motorworks]

What oil should be used on a TDI after an emissions delete?
I'm bringing this up because the changes to the oil, to prevent it from poisoning the catalysts, and the lowering of the viscosity reduced is ability to protect the engine.

It seems natural to return to the oil spec for the pre catalyst/DPF TDI's

It's very hotly debated, personally I run 5w40 505/505.01 in mine. It's got a lot better shear stability than the 507 spec oil

 

[Dannyboy485]

I'll set some of the rumors straight. I done a course on tribology many years ago as part of my job. This led me down more rabbit holes into understanding what actually goes on with oils which is more complicated than what people think.
This is reason we have specs. To simplify them. All oils have trade offs in different areas. There is no one fits all type of oil.

VW507 spec oil is NOT an inferior oil at all. Not even in the slightest. Depending on what brand you use they use newer detergent/additive packages that have very different properties to older oils. Fuel standards have changed, injection tech has changed, engine design has changed.

New oils run boron, which allows manufacturers to run lower zddp content as boron enhances anti wear properties to same level and meet tougher emissions standards at the same time.

Fuel standards have changed which is one of the reasons most modern oils have lower TBNs compared to older oil versions. Less Sulphur means less build up of sulphuric acid/compounds in the crankcase so less base is required to neutralize the acid.

Mechanical differences such as honing techniques, cylinder wall coatings, piston skirt coatings/designs. PDs use flat tappet design which has an intense loading on a very small area while common rail uses roller rocker that has a much lower stress on the valvetrain.

I'm only simplifying it because there's much more involved.

So saying Xw40 is better than Xw30 is an invalid answer.
If a modern 0W30 507 oil can deal with high temperature regens / EGR systems every ~500 miles throughout the life of the oil , I can say it will be 100% fine when all of that equipment is gone the heat generation will be much lower.

My choice is a 0W30 507 oil

 

[casioqv]

I'm only simplifying it because there's much more involved.

Thanks for the information, it makes sense that the 505.01 is uniquely designed to combat the stresses and cam wear issues of the PD engines. It also seems quite logical that if the 507 can hold up well to an engine with frequent regens and all of the heat, stress, and fuel dilution issues that entails, it certainly should be good enough without them.

 

[Dannyboy485]

Thanks for the information, it makes sense that the 505.01 is uniquely designed to combat the stresses and cam wear issues of the PD engines. It also seems quite logical that if the 507 can hold up well to an engine with frequent regens and all of the heat, stress, and fuel dilution issues that entails, it certainly should be good enough without them.

Yes you are correct.

I'm not here to annoy anyone and say they are wrong. Oil is very touchy subject as everyone has their own opinions. I'm just setting the record straight to clear up any misinformation about certain oils people seem to think that are going to cause the engine to self destruct.

Also another thing people forget is VW507 spec was introduced in 2004. That's 21 years ago. It's had plenty of time to see if it worked or not.
I haven't heard a single failure caused by vw 507 spec oil other than use in PDs ( which camshafts were a design flaw from the factory, Xw40 only prolonged the inevitable).
Most of of the vw507 oils are borderline Xw40 spec oils anyway.

I would run Xw40 in mine, problem is where I live in the north is so cold in winter. 0w40 doesn't flow as good as 0w30 during very cold snaps. And that's when most engine wear occurs.

 

[PRY4SNO]

@Dannyboy485 you've covered a lot of what I've read on Bob is the Oil Guy forums. No idea why, but I cannot find the threads where they discuss in depth the detergent scrubbing and sacrificial wear layer bedding phases of 507 oil.

Not to fan any flames, but is there a non-507 spec 0w30 that you'd consider running post-delete? I'm looking to the balance between adequate protection, availability, and cost.

 

[Dannyboy485]

@Dannyboy485 you've covered a lot of what I've read on Bob is the Oil Guy forums. No idea why, but I cannot find the threads where they discuss in depth the detergent scrubbing and sacrificial wear layer bedding phases of 507 oil.

Not to fan any flames, but is there a non-507 spec 0w30 that you'd consider running post-delete? I'm looking to the balance between adequate protection, availability, and cost.

Honestly I mostly look at the PDS and SDS and usually you can make a judgment call on whether the oil is ideal or not.


I use Pennzoil platinum euro LX 0w30 which is rebottled Shell Helix Ultra ECT which is a very good oil in Europe. I buy a whole load when it's on sale for around $33 cdn/$24 US for 5 liters. Quaker state euro LX 0w30 is the excat same oil. I looked at Canadian Tires OEPLUS 0w30 also which seems to have the same specs but I can't confirm that. Since it was made by shell it could very well be all three oils are all the same just rebottled.
I have no affiliation with any oil manufacturer, I just use my common sense and hone in on the most economical oil that gives you best bang per buck. There is probably cheaper but there's probably trade offs.

All 3 oils have a kinematic centistoke range at 100c of 12 cST. The XW40 range starts at 12.5 cST at 100c and ends at 16.3 cST. So for the sake of 0.5 cST to be in the 40 range is it worth it?

Here's a small list of oils that are very similar in range , some meet 507 , some don't.
Mobil 1 euro esp 0w30 is 12 cST
Castrol edge euro 0w30 is 12.3 cST
Valvoline euro 0w30 is also 12.3 cST
If you'd like me to look at a specific oil spec, let me know.

Most of the oil health monitoring samples I get back from my CJAA come back in the 11.7-11.9 range so I'm not worried that the oil isn't holding up after 15k kms. I'm not gentle on the car either.

I would do oil health analysis for my treg but my wife has been diagnosed with a life altering disease and everything has kinda taken a back seat.

If I lived in the lower states like Texas, Cali or Florida I'd put in any Xw40 in there without hesitation, the lower index isn't going matter but unfortunately I live in freezer for 6 months of the year.

 

[PRY4SNO]

The three 507 oils I tend to use are the M1 ESP, and Pennzoil LX you mentioned, or Motul 8100 x-clean. I'll keep an eye out when I hit about 10k km on the OCI, and buy what's on sale by the time I hit 15k km. Be interested to see who the Motul stacks up to the M1 and Pennzoil.

Also curious what you'd have to say about running Rotella T6 0w40 instead of the 5w40, perhaps in the winter. I notice sluggish starts when it's -40º out, or approaching, even with a fully charged battery. No oil/coolant heaters though (yet).

I've done oil samples with Fluid Life before but found their results much less informative than UOI reports others have posted from Blackstone, so I stopped.

Sorry to hear about the health difficulties with your wife, that's never easy.

 

[Dannyboy485]

Sorry to hear about the health difficulties with your wife, that's never easy.

Thank you bud, I appreciate it. Took us both by surprise and now my time is busier so less time to do the things I want to. She is never going to work again so early retirement for her.

 

[sustdi]

based on my UOAs i get significantly lower wear with 0w40 and 5w40 oils than 507 spec oils. This goes for either 505.00 / 505.01 oils.

I switched over to m1 euro FS 0w40 now, but ran Ck4/Cj4 oilsfor a while before then.

 

[Lars_NM]

based on my UOAs i get significantly lower wear with 0w40 and 5w40 oils than 507 spec oils. This goes for either 505.00 / 505.01 oils.

I switched over to m1 euro FS 0w40 now, but ran Ck4/Cj4 oilsfor a while before then.

Thanks, it is good to see opinions that are based on data

 

[PRY4SNO]

based on my UOAs i get significantly lower wear with 0w40 and 5w40 oils than 507 spec oils. This goes for either 505.00 / 505.01 oils.

I switched over to m1 euro FS 0w40 now, but ran Ck4/Cj4 oilsfor a while before then.

Any chance you could post some of the UOAs?

 

[sustdi]

Any chance you could post some of the UOAs?

in chron order