Club Touareg Forum banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

Boma23

· Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hi All,

New on here as have been lurking, researching (and scaring myself) on a possible purchase!

It's a 2011 Canadian market TDI with the 225Bbhp / 166Kw engine, same family owners from new, and I hear this might be the most reliable iteration of the Treg when looked after. It went from Canada to Belgium with the first family's work for the UN, then out to where I am in the BVI when they passed it along between sisters, as Europe is intent on making second-hand diesel worthless via taxation. Current owner now leaving island; he was going to fix and sell, but have the chance to purchase at a discount with known issues accounted for.

It has 11 VW service stamps in 106,000 miles (and I can tell oil has been dropped from the bottom previously).

It's not without issues (it's a 14 yr old German!), but I think I can cope with most, the biggest being the current DPF is blocked. This was caused after current owner ran it too long locally with bad combustion chamber sensor glowplugs before getting it fixed, which basically clogged the DPF. It now has a new set of plugs in, but DPF limp mode trips every other journey at minute. Front interior is dry despite some leaves in wing drains that need clearing. Some evidence of minor water ingress rear passenger right light area. It otherwise drives perfectly, with suspension steering and gearbox showing no issues.

I've had it on a ramp, taken lots of photos, and want thoughts on the below. I've read up on remaining other common issues, but just want a couple of second opinions before committing. The island I live on is only 4000 people, and servicing /maint is usually by myself, due to lack of skilled local shops. Good cars are worth comparatively way more here, whilst older complex cars with issues become worthless, as even if technical skills to fix are available, 20% import duty on top of the US price PLUS the shipping costs means most spares are double the price by the time they are landed. So a 2011 Touareg is rightfully terrifying, good history or not! I'm a decent amateur spanner wielder, with some engineering background, but by no means a pro, and my main work is IT and Audio Visual. I do have a ramp available I can use on occasion. Normally I stick to Toyota 4x4, although we have another unruly German in the Wife's 2007 E83 which has been a royal PITA, and this is to replace that.

My immediate intention is a homebrew DPF re-generation by cleaning with dish tablets/acid per these two videos on youtube: DPF home clean and DPF cleaning chemical comparisons

Then follow up ASAP with a DPF and EGR delete & Stg1 tune (no emissions here), to primarily remove failure points, more than performance reasons (but whilst there, hey why not).

Finally preventively replacing the Bosch pump and the oil pressure valve on the front of the engine, front belt, and possibly the injectors if required.

Full photo album is here

Any guidance on the following is greatly appreciated, and let me know if you spot anything in the album of note!

1. When I go for the DPF / EGR delete, how hard is removing the ECU for me to send away? normal few bits of trim and harness clips, or anything silly to contend with?

2a. I can't hear any timing chain rattles, but I've grabbed a video as those with experience may hear/recognise better.
2b. Ticking from the heads /valvetrain seems louder on startup from passenger side bank. Only slightly, but noticeable. Is this anything to worry about?



3. I can't identify if I have the crappy CP4 or CP1 pump - can someone confirm? I think it's the CP4 but I'm seeing various pics online where both have the same tower and sensor connection next to each other.

Image


Image


4. The accessory belt looks oldish - is this a fairly easy (standard) replacement job, accessible from the front, or are there any horrible surprises in store for an amateur mechanic? Same Q for the crank pulley (should I do this at the same time, or is the 8 bolt pulley fine to leave alone at these miles?)

Image


5. DPF delete! The EGR all seems accessible from the top, and the DPF looks like it should come out OK without having to remove the subframe - is that correct? The main exhaust fasteners look like they should dremel / grind off. Any tips for those line connectors for a VW newby - are they reusable (or hose clamps fine)?

Image




Image



6. There are a few small oil leaks/seeps, which I would expect on any diesel of this mileage. Please let me know if any of the following are likely to cause major issues down the line, particularly what seems to be the engine/gearbox join, which seems to have been wiped clean not too long ago (might have been when leaky sump washer was swapped out not too long ago).

Image


Image


Image


Image


Image


7. Running VCDS (owner has copy) shows the expected DPF error (which trips in and out currently), but also a P0101 - 0050 "MAF implausible signal". Might this be related to additional back pressure from the blocked DPF? car comes with spare MAF.

Full VCDS output:





Monday,06,May,2024,11:48:35:50547
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 11 x64
VCDS Version: 24.5.0.0 (x64) HEX-V2 CB: 0.4643.4
Data version: 20240429 DS355.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVGDK6A91AD00xxxx License Plate:
Mileage: 163800km-101780mi Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: A9 (6N0)
Scan: 01 02 03 05 08 09 15 16 17 19 22 2E 36 37 46 47 55 56 68 69
6C 6D 6E 76 77

VIN: WVGDK6A91AD00xxxx Mileage: 163800km-101780miles

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: Malfunction 0010
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
22-AWD -- Status: OK 0000
2E-Media Player 3 -- Status: OK 0000
36-Seat Mem. Drvr -- Status: OK 0000
37-Navigation -- Status: Malfunction 0010
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
47-Sound System -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
55-Headlight Range -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
68-Wiper Electr. -- Status: OK 0000
69-Trailer -- Status: OK 0000
6C-Back-up Cam. -- Status: OK 0000
6D-Trunk Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
6E-Ctrl Head Roof -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
76-Park Assist -- Status: OK 0000
77-Telephone -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (CAT) Labels:. 059-907-401-CAT1.clb
Part No SW: 7L0 907 401 T HW: 7L0 907 401 K
Component: 3.0TDI EDC17G004AG 0060
Revision: 33H02--- Serial number: VWX3Z0J2909070
Coding: 0421002A590F0968
Shop #: WSC 00237 211 88687
VCID: 3C2126551A77F0DA4BB-5184
VINID: 9E65D46C64490515000031831867ED0E0C

3 Faults Found:
009315 - Particle Filter
P2463 - 000 - Excessive Soot Accumulation - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10100000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 13
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 163743 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2024.04.30
Time: 09:10:33

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1533 /min
Speed: 26.9 km/h
Pressure: 63 mbar
Temperature: 139.5 C
Temperature: 82.6 C
(no units): 126.9

008194 - Particulate Trap Bank 1
P2002 - 008 - Efficiency Below Threshold - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 13
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 163743 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2024.04.30
Time: 09:10:33

Freeze Frame:
Temperature: 26.1 C
Pressure: -6 mbar
(no units): 33.0
(no units): 17.5
Mileage: 100 km
(no units): 8.0

000257 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
P0101 - 005 - Implausible Signal - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100101
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 163776 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2024.05.04
Time: 12:36:55

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1218 /min
Speed: 37.0 km/h
(no units): 168.0
(no units): 0.71
Absolute Pres.: 1111.8 mbar
Temperature: 51.3 C
Temperature: 86.4 C

Readiness: 1 2 0 0 1

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans
Cannot be reached

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 7L0-907-379-MK25E1.clb
Part No SW: 7L0 907 379 P HW: 7L0 614 517 C
Component: ESP ALLRAD MK25E1 0304
Revision: 00H53001
Coding: 0004354
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
VCID: 46D544BD54EBBA0A2DF-8012

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: None
Part No SW: 7L0 909 135 C HW: 7L0 909 135 C
Component: Kessy 6850
Revision: 00H22072 Serial number: VWX3Z0J2909070
Coding: 0000232
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
VCID: 313F0761CD650DB2E8D-8064

Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
Component: ELV XXXX

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 7L6-907-040.clb
Part No: 7L6 907 040 AL
Component: CLIMAtronic R/L 4537
Coding: 0003030
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
VCID: 7AADE04D50930EEA197-802E

2 Faults Found:
00353 - Function Return Message from Fresh Air Blower Regulator
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Voltage: 14.00 V
Voltage: 10.48 V
Voltage: 12.53 V
Voltage: 14.00 V

01592 - Air Quality Sensor (G238)
007 - Short to Ground
Freeze Frame:


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels:. 7Lx-937-049-V2.clb
Part No SW: 7L6 937 049 AF HW: 7L6 937 049 AF
Component: J519 2004
Revision: -0004--- Serial number: --------------
Coding: 220008002F00BC000000000000000000
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
VCID: 005992A5364F543A573-8054

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 7L0-959-655.lbl
Part No SW: 7L0 959 655 A HW: 7L0 959 655 A
Component: J234__0B VW8T 0270
Revision: 92013027 Serial number: 003C6001EM6L
Coding: 0012354
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
VCID: 3B2325491F29F7E2421-806E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 7L6-953-549.lbl
Part No: 7L6 953 549 G
Component: J527 3601
Coding: 0010211
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
VCID: 43D35DA967D98F220A1-8016

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 7L6-920-xxx-7L6.lbl
Part No SW: 7L6 920 890 P HW: 7L6 920 890 P
Component: J285 KOMBI-INST. 9833
Revision: KHH06V44
Coding: 0000101
Shop #: WSC 45926 004 104857
VCID: 45D743B169ADB112245-8010

1 Fault Found:
00470 - Company Comfort Databus in Single Wire
011 - Open Circuit
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101011
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 20
Reset counter: 79
Mileage: 163151 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2024.02.18
Time: 16:36:42


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels:. 6N0-909-901-7L.clb
Part No SW: 6N0 909 901 HW: 7L6 920 890 P
Component: J533 GW-K-CAN TP20 9833
Coding: 77E2EFDBCB846002
Shop #: WSC 45926 004 104857
VCID: 70B9C26506AF44BAA73-8024

1 Fault Found:
00470 - Company Comfort Databus in Single Wire
011 - Open Circuit
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101011
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 20
Reset counter: 79
Mileage: 163151 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2024.02.18
Time: 16:36:42


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 22: AWD Labels: None
Part No: 0AD 927 755 BG
Component: TRANSFERCASE 0126
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 015F97A13D155D3258D-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 2E: Media Player 3 (J650) Labels:. 5N0-035-342.lbl
Part No SW: 5N0 035 342 B HW: 5N0 035 342 B
Component: SG EXT.PLAYER H13 0090
Revision: A1001003 Serial number: 7667771709
Coding: 020000
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
VCID: 2615E43DF8EB5A0A0DF-8072

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr Labels: None
Part No: 7L0 959 760
Component: Sitzverstellung 0702
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 77ABF97963811382669-8022

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation (J0506) Labels:. 1T0-035-680.clb
Part No SW: 7L6 035 684 B HW: 7L6 035 684 B
Component: RNS-MID H02 0382
Revision: AB001001 Serial number: VWZ6Z7K9034171
Coding: 200500000100002600
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
VCID: 35373371354D2192B45-8060

2 Faults Found:
03181 - Internal Error SDARS Module
000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 254
Reset counter: 119
Mileage: 163144 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2024.02.19
Time: 15:51:26

02635 - Tuner Not Enabled/Activated
000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 7
Fault Frequency: 10
Reset counter: 118
Mileage: 163640 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2024.04.13
Time: 20:30:23


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 7L0-959-933.clb
Part No: 7L6 959 933 A
Component: 4M HSG 0601
Coding: 0000085
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
VCID: 40D952A5769F943A173-4B3C

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 7L0 959 701 N
Component: Tuersteuergeraet FS 6304

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 7L0 959 702 N
Component: Tuersteuergeraet BF 6304

Subsystem 3 - Part No: 7L0 959 703 C
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HL 0201

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 7L0 959 704 C
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HR 0201

1 Fault Found:
00470 - Company Comfort Databus in Single Wire
011 - Open Circuit

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System Labels: 7Lx-035-4xx-47.lbl
Part No SW: 7L6 035 466 C HW: 7L6 035 466 C
Component: DSP 10 Kanal 0020
Revision: 00H06001 Serial number: 75835000890806
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 34310E753237389A83B-8060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Headlight Range Labels: 7L6-907-357-A.lbl
Part No SW: 7L6 907 357 C HW: 7L6 907 357 C
Component: AFS-Steuergeraet 0143
Revision: 00H04000 Serial number:
Coding: 1290435
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
VCID: 3B2325491F29F7E2421-806E

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 7L6 941 329 B Labels: 3D0-941-329.CLB
Component: AFS-Lst.-Modul l 0004
Coding: 00000019

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 7L6 941 329 B Labels: 3D0-941-329.CLB
Component: AFS-Lst.-Modul r 0004
Coding: 00000019

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio (J0506) Labels:. 1T0-035-680.clb
Part No SW: 7L6 035 684 B HW: 7L6 035 684 B
Component: RNS-MID H02 0382
Revision: AB001001 Serial number: VWZ6Z7K9034171
Coding: 200500000100002600
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
VCID: 35373371354D2192B45-8060

2 Faults Found:
03181 - Internal Error SDARS Module
000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 254
Reset counter: 119
Mileage: 163144 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2024.02.19
Time: 15:51:26

02635 - Tuner Not Enabled/Activated
000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 7
Fault Frequency: 10
Reset counter: 118
Mileage: 163640 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2024.04.13
Time: 20:30:23


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 68: Wiper Electr. Labels: 7L0-955-119-V2.clb
Part No: 7L6 955 119 B
Component: J400__ Front Wiper 5301
Coding: 0001397
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
VCID: 392F3F411555C5F250D-806C

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 AH Labels: 1K0-955-559-AG.CLB
Component: RLS 040210 054 0403
Coding: 00208941
Shop #: WSC 31414

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 69: Trailer Labels: 7L0-907-383-1D2.lbl
Part No SW: 7L0 907 383 N HW: 7L0 907 383 N
Component: J345 Anhaenger 0080
Revision: 4A008002 Serial number: 00000125045766
Coding: 0016386
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 3FDB51590B31EBC26E9-806A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 6C: Back-up Cam. Labels: 5N0-907-441.clb
Part No SW: 7L6 907 441 B HW: 7L6 907 441 B
Component: J772__Rearview 0033
Revision: 00H13000 Serial number: PA8 J010772
Coding: 0110001
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
VCID: 34310E753237389A83B-8060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 6D: Trunk Elect. Labels: 7L6-959-107.clb
Part No SW: 7L6 959 107 B HW: 7L6 959 107 B
Component: J605 HECKKLAPPE 1310
Revision: --H05--- Serial number: --------051215
Coding: 0122110
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
VCID: 3A2D204D1013CEEA597-806E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 6E: Ctrl Head Roof Labels: None
Part No SW: 7L6 919 044 AD HW: 7L6 919 044 AD
Component: J702 Dachdisplay 0401
Revision: 1030006S Serial number: 00000000150940
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 79AFFF4155D505F210D-802C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 76: Park Assist Labels: Redir Fail!
Part No: 7L0 919 283 F
Component: 0L Einparkhilfe 1108
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 392F3F411515C5F250D-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 77: Telephone Labels: 5P0-862-335.lbl
Part No SW: 1Z0 035 729 E HW: 1Z0 035 729 E
Component: FSE_2P8x H40 0190
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 00000005188695
Coding: 0012077
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
VCID: 3A2D204D1053CEEA597-806E

No fault code found.

End----------(Elapsed Time: 02:19, VBatt start/end: 14.4V/13.9V)-----------





Sorry for such a long introductory post!!!

If there's nothing too scary here, I'll secure this car and hopefully be here some more - but bear in mind my location and difficulty with any big scary jobs if they look impending!

Cheers

Dom
 
Don't jump the gun on the DPF issue yet.
You need to read its actual loading\accumulation first.
You'll need to address the MAF sensor issue if you want regens, etc.
After you start diving into all that with VCDS, you can trigger a manual or service regen on the DPF.
It also appears that you have all sorts of wiring issue to fix due to all the open circuits.
It will all come down to your comfort level and abilities in terms of both diagnostics and wrenching.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Thanks for your input - having seen your posts was hoping you'd comment.

We're 'reasonably confident' the DPF is clogged. The car itself continues to try regens, but we know for a fact it was run on lots of short stop-start journeys locally, for far too long (owner's own admission) whilst severely smoking/sooting due to the plug sensor issue.

"You need to read its actual loading\accumulation first." - also noted and will do as soon as I can. I need guidance here though on what to look for (where), and what results are within expected parameters, as the car doesn't currently run for any reasonable length of time before triggering limp mode.

Could the DPF be a cause of the unexpected MAF reading? (Been told this elsewhere). As plan is to preventatively delete DPF/EGR regardless, I don't have a problem removing & cleaning the DPF first, especially at this mileage.

****

The wiring faults listed (I could see) all appear to be HVAC or head unit related which I wasn't too concerned about, as both seem to operate perfectly and as expected - apart from the broken canbus signal (00470 - Company Comfort Databus in Single Wire) which I found another thread on audi-sport suggesting this could also be caused by a connector for the HVAC - so all suggestive of a bad connector behind the dash somewhere..?

I don't see any other fault codes apart from DPF / MAF that are related to the core engine management systems though, unless did I miss something? As that is the sort of thing that will put me off!
 
The MAF is a required input in order to have autonomous regens take place.
The FF data on the DPF code shows you that it's not overly loaded right now.... but it does want a regen.
(no units): 33.0
(no units): 17.5
Mileage: 100 km
(no units): 8.0
Those are most likely Ash Load, Calculated Soot, Distance Since Last Regen, Measured Soot (MVB 104)
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
The MAF is a required input in order to have autonomous regens take place.
The FF data on the DPF code shows you that it's not overly loaded right now.... but it does want a regen.

Those are most likely Ash Load, Calculated Soot, Distance Since Last Regen, Measured Soot (MVB 104)
Very helpful, thank you! I'll go over and try fitting the spare MAF tomorrow. I think this place looks ok...

I've established the DPF removal should be OK without subframe removal, and belt looks simple enough (youtube).

Any thoughts on:
  • confirming CP4 over the CP1?
  • general cold startup sound
  • play in the propshaft carrier? There's zero vibration when driving.

And then the only other worry is the small seepy bit between box and engine which can be rear main seal? However I've also read that leaks from the timing belt cover at the rear can drip down and look the same, and some of those other oil drip photos are above same area - so maybe I'll just try and get a second look at that to be sure tomorrow at same time as the MAF swap. Need to give him a confirmation ASAP as he's on a timeframe to leaving.

I'm calling a couple of tuners tomorrow to talk about doing the delete/flash myself. I see Malone/Tunezilla are big this side, and Darkside are the guys in the UK - I'm back there in 3 months so have options for both.
 
I've established the DPF removal should be OK without subframe removal, and belt looks simple enough (youtube).
I don't follow.... why are you still going on about removing something that you haven't confirmed is an issue?
Have you validated it's loading? I want to say that the info will be in MVBs 104 & 241 on that controller.
confirming CP4 over the CP1?
It should be clearly identified on the pump label, and on a CATA the pump is at the front of the motor, so should be easy to read.
general cold startup sound
I don't hear anything
play in the propshaft carrier? There's zero vibration when driving.
It's not meant to be solid.... there are aftermarket braces if you want solid (and then you'll probably have vibrations)
I'm calling a couple of tuners tomorrow to talk about doing the delete/flash myself.
If you're deleting it, I don't even know why we wasted all these keystrokes discussing the DPF regens\cleaning\checking.... 🤷‍♂️
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
I am removing the DPF primarily for reliability purposes, but I need to do way more research on that and how I will achieve it out here in the islands. Without support, and expensive and lengthy shipping logistics, that is at least 2-3 months away, and the tune may require me sending the ECU abroad it seems. So I need to establish fixing the current DPF issue is viable as soon as I purchase, otherwise the wife will not be happy if her new car is stuck in limp mode for months.

I didn't know you could measure DPF loading. Thanks to your pointers above, I went back tonight, cleared all codes, then took it out and got it nice and hot, before forcing a regen via VCDS.

1st attempt got hot enough (600+ deg?) with speedo needle hunting before I accidentally tripped it by tapping the accelerator 15 mins in. 2nd attempt also got hot and ran for about 15 mins again, before it errored out for an unknown reason. Between the 2 attempts, we guessed it did a similar amount of heating/regen as a single successful one. Regen log is attached as TXT file, and below are the errors it threw during the regens (although the repeated MAF code was whilst out beforehand, getting the car hot). I suspect the errors were due to the regen requiring the HVAC on for engine loading, and we know there is a possible canbus wiring error there to be found due to the previous codes you questioned originally. Owner says regen attempts since this issue are always finicky - about 50% succeed, but many don't and error out.


Wednesday,08,May,2024,18:58:23:50547
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 11 x64
VCDS Version: 24.5.0.0 (x64) HEX-V2 CB: 0.4643.4
Data version: 20240429 DS355.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVGDK6A91AD00xxxx License Plate:
Mileage: Repair Order: dpf 2 time regen error



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 01: Engine Labels: 059-907-401-CAT1.CLB
Control Module Part Number: 7L0 907 401 T HW: 7L0 907 401 K
Component and/or Version: 3.0TDI EDC17G004AG 0060
Software Coding: 0421002A590F0968
Work Shop Code: WSC 00237 211 88687
VCID: 3C2126551A77F0DA4BB-5184
3 Faults Found:

009315 - Particle Filter
P2463 - 000 - Excessive Soot Accumulation - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 163821 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2024.05.08
Time: 18:21:43

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2205 /min
Speed: 10.1 km/h
Pressure: 219 mbar
Temperature: 139.5 C
Temperature: 182.9 C
(no units): 267.9

008194 - Particulate Trap Bank 1
P2002 - 008 - Efficiency Below Threshold - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 163821 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2024.05.08
Time: 18:31:25

Freeze Frame:
Temperature: 24.3 C
Pressure: -6 mbar
(no units): 48.5
(no units): 18.0
Mileage: 160 km
(no units): 14.0

000257 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
P0101 - 005 - Implausible Signal
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100101
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 163815 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2024.05.08
Time: 17:51:56

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1554 /min
Speed: 28.0 km/h
(no units): 216.0
(no units): 0.75
Absolute Pres.: 1122.0 mbar
Temperature: 34.2 C
Temperature: 77.4 C


Readiness: 1 1 0 0 1



After, I took the car for a hard drive (2000ft of climbing clear mountain road in 6 miles), and it was really strong. It did fire another DPF warning at me on the dash during the run, but it didn't trigger a limp mode for it. Owner says it will likely last a few days like this after a regen before issues return and limp mode is re-triggered. (Bear in mind the longest commute on island is about 8 miles, even if it's a hard uphill run, so another reason to delete DPF).

I found MVB104 (241 was blanks) and grabbed the below loading figures - please let me know thoughts. Are these values always accurate of the physical state of the DPF, or do we know if they can be wrong (seems a hard thing to measure)?

Address 01: Engine (7L0 907 401 T)

20:11:16 Group 104: Diesel Particle Filter (DPF)
0.25 Particle Filter Oil Ash Volume
6.5 Particle Filter Carbon Mass (calc.)
26.5 Particle Filter Carbon Mass (act.)
200 km Mileage Since last Regen

20:11:16 Group 241


Whilst the MAF error does worry me, a boat mechanic friend here has a VW Amarok using later version of the V6 TDi, and also had DPF issues due to the short runs. He had similar errors coinciding with the DPF issues that wouldn't clear until he replaced the DPF.

Owner is convinced this vehicles's DPF problems are his fault and were the result of the rolling coal episode, as when the combustion chamber sensors on the plugs failed, he ran the car in anger without them plugged in for a while, and it POURED soot during this period. Does this tally with the difference between the ACTUAL and CALCULATED carbon loading figures above? The MAF code appeared simultaneously so it got swapped out in case, but the error remained identical, and I have the old MAF on hand which didn't record any errors up to the DPF failure.

So at this point, I think I'm going to go for it, buy the vehicle and immediately try cleaning the DPF off the vehicle first (seeing as it will have to be removed for the delete at a slightly later date anyway). If a cleaned DPF doesn't also clear the MAF code afterward, then I may just sell it on at the same discounted price, which shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks again for the help. Will update with results!
 

Attachments

You can listen to me, or you can listen to everyone else telling you to load up the parts cannon.... (not my $$$$)
Nothing you're showing or telling me indicates that you need to do anything with the DPF.

Read the SSP discussing your engine to understand what the system relies on during operation so you can have a better understanding of what effects certain component failures would have on it.

Self Study Program 840193

What's the first "input" that you see in this diagram?
Image


Look at the data you just posted.
It clearly tells you that a regen still happened not that long ago, and all other values are still in spec.
Ash load capacity is .46 .... you're well below that. I have a thread where I've asked people to report their loads and accumulation based on mileage, and you can have a look at it for reference. Your ODO reading is not sufficient to have filled up the DPF yet..... but due to the reported neglect by previous owner, you actually have increased ash load compared to "normal" use patterns.

Read the red text in the following visual.
Image


Does this tally with the difference between the ACTUAL and CALCULATED carbon loading figures above?
Negative.
Actual is determined by pressure readings across the DPF and Calculated is based on computations based off theoretical maps interpolating data off what various parameters should be under specific operating conditions. When everything is perfect, the two values as close in check.... when operational parameters go out of norm or there's sensor failures, some of the input data is no longer valid, so it throws the Calculated off as it's getting incorrect readings of said inputs.
Garbage in = Garbage out

The MAF code appeared simultaneously so it got swapped out in case, but the error remained identical, and I have the old MAF on hand which didn't record any errors up to the DPF failure.
You'll need to read some live data off whichever MAF you're trying to diagnose to see what's happening. In the FF data of the code posted, you can see there's an issue with one of the measurements (most likely actual vs calculated again)
(no units): 216.0
(no units): 0.75
I also don't know if your replacement is OEM or some Amazon garbage, etc. All charge piping and intake tract must also be checked for leaks when diagnosing a MAF issue, as any leaks will throw measurements off, etc.
 
rolling coal episode
If it rolled coal, the DPF is damaged, breached, cracked. There should be ZERO visible particulate matter leaving the exhaust. Only white vapor should be possible. The DPF is a filter to stop/trap soot, unburnt fuel (rolling coal). DPF may be in pieces, clogged up and holding soot (C), definitely not efficient at converting the unburnt fuel into other chemicals like NO2 and CO2 for the SCR system to cleanup further. Here is a video of the chem reaction. No soot or dark smoke should make it out if the DPF is intact.
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
Sorry for late reply. 8" or rain in >3 hours here this week, severe flash floods and a big mess with all my clients last few days. Barely any time free.

Will try and properly digest all the above and the SSI this evening (and post regen log again), but absolutely noted and agreed on the MAF for sure; everything you are posting is absolutely appreciated.

My next and last chance to evaluate / troubleshoot the vehicle will be Sunday afternoon, as another potential buyer is waiting on my decision. I will have a ramp, and I think my goal on Sunday will be primarily attack MAF signal issue (as you say all hoses, intake/charge leaks, grounding of sensors - anything else here?). Spare was a Hitachi, and OEM is there also (which wasn't erroring before swapping out, so should be good).

My worries with the DPF side are that either:

1. data from VCDS is bad (bad sensor, or one of the other inputs is incorrect - need to study the guides and pointers above properly)
2. the DPF is already damaged in some way - I've read too many regens (and he has done lots) can also take their toll and heat damage the DPF? hence current regen attempts might not be working/and or data collection affected?
3. Is there any chance the Cat itself is damaged, or clogged to point that could affect DPF readings? I know zero about Cats in general as have never had to troubleshoot or were already removed on my other older modified performance (gas) vehicles.

So I may well fire my labour (not parts!) cannon at it on Sunday after the MAF checks, and remove/clean anyway if I get time. Owner is OK with this.
 
If original owner lived on an island, good chance the emissions system is completely trashed from short-tripping, not getting up to temp, excessive idling etc.
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
Car has only been on island about 2 years / last 5000 miles, suffering this issue for around 6 months. Before that it spent it's life in Canada, then Europe going between Belgium & Holland. But no doubt, the last couple of years has been the antithesis of how it's meant to have been run.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts