[HotRodW]

Saw this today. Available in that mythical world across the pond.

Review: VW Tiguan 2.0 BiTDI 240 4Motion DSG SE L | The Independent

Now a new and more powerful engine has been shoehorned under the Tiguan bonnet, the 237bhp 2.0-litre bi-turbo TDI engine with which Passat owners will already be familiar. Its arrival in the Tiguan seems like a commonsense move as, with the added functionality of four-wheel-drive, it empowers the VW to take on seriously capable opposition such as the X3 xDrive30d.

Would I consider an American Tiguan with that engine? You betchurass I would! Maybe even an Atlas.

To my knowledge, the 3.0 has never been used in a transverse application. It's for that reason that I expected this new, more potent 2.0 TDI to be the diesel engine VW would offer in the Atlas. Of course, that was before 'TDI' became synonymous with words like 'dirty' and 'scandal'. Maybe I wouldn't be so bitter if they didn't actually de-tune the Tiguan's 2.0 in this application and pair it with the old 6-speed slushbox.

 

[mpm T2 TDI]

Forced with the buyback, needing a 3rd row, and after a lot of soul searching, strained eyes looking at choices, and making to hard decision to leave diesel for the near future, we took delivery on a obsidian black/gray leather MB GL550.

It has every option offered, except night vision and the illuminated star (which I would have found a way to defeat). Full factory warrenty until 9/19. What also attracted me to this particular rig is it had 900 miles on the clock. Yes, 900 miles! That is not a typo.

Comparing this to the T2 TDI, would be an apples-to-oranges impossibility, instead some pro/con observations of my first non-VAG product in 35 years...

• Engine
While this twin turbo V8 pumps some respectable hp and torque numbers (429/516), it comes at a price. Gone are the days of blasting away at an 80 mph crusing speed, getting 25-27mpg and a 550-600 mile range. I will sorely miss a diesel mill, sad...
Advantage: T2, by a country mile...

• Tranny
The 7 speed with paddles is sweet, especially when pushing this rig, the paddle shifters work well, instant hook up.
Advantage: GL

• Brakes
Not sure how many pots, but these are impressive stoppers. Strong pedal from the top and great feel throughout. Not as "feeling" as Big Reds on a Porsche, but similar and appreciated in slowing this beast down. My VWs and Audis have always been a bit too soft at the top.
Advantage: GL

• Suspension
Air is standard in all GLs, this one is optioned with Active Curve (hydraulic dampers) and a 6 position Off Road package (I believe with lockers?). Didn't get to push it through any twisties, but these aides will help pilot this beast. Of course, 4CAir on the T2 works wonderfully well.
Advantage: TBD

• Steering
A lot of (too much?) low speed boost, but good feedback at speed. Same with the T2, without as much boost at low speed.
Advantage: mehh...both are excellent.

• Exterior
The AMG body work with more aggressive nose and tail clips, and wheels improves the curb appeal of the 550 over other GLs. Paint, shut lines, fit-n-finish is top shelf. That said, so is the T2, sans the AMG stuff, and I still prefer the old school looks of the T2 to the newer Touareg's. But, it is nice to be in a dent/ding free skin again...
Advantage: GL slightly (unless I found a similarly equipped Palladium Silver 550, that color is the bomb..).

• Interior
The materials, fit-n-finish, seats (10 way adjustable heat/cool/massage), sound deadening, tactile feel of switch gear are all first rate. The T2 may be dated, but it always was a pleasant environment, and at near 100K, still looks like new.
Advantage: GL

• Driver Goodies
H-K stereo, NAV and 360 backup cameras (that come on instantly, and not mapping sometimes as if I was in Germany), every driver aide, memory and power everything, pano roof, side shades, seperate climate controls and RSE for the kids, useful voice activated phone and command integration, and so on. It's quite a nice place to do business.

The decontenting of the T2, was one of my biggest beefs...
Advantage: GL in spades (except for the missing opening hatch glass, a real loss for us)

• On the road
500 miles of highway, and 20 high pucker factor miles through Richmond and DC, doesn't give a chance to truely test the suspension benefits of the GL, but it did provide what the day-to-day is going to be like.

Gulping hard, I bet all these driving aides, especially DistronicPlus, will make me drive slower. It's pretty impressive, just set-n-forget. But wondering if these driver aides will become a neuscense?

When paddle shifting and punching the go pedal, it really flys, but you notice - and have to manage - the longer wheelbase. Gone are my point and shoot T2 passes. Those also came with the hairy eyeballs from my wife, so I won't miss that.

The 550 is super smooth, comfortable quite and exceptional well built vehicle. It is a buttoned up, purposeful 7 seater, that will safely serve my familys needs as long as we have it.

The T2, while equally safe, is not overall as smooth, comforting, and is a now a little long in the tooth. But hey, it a 2010 vs a 2015 and it'll always be remembered as the impressive driver that it is.

PS
All told, if I didn't need a 3rd row, I probably wouldn't even be getting rid of my T2. I'd take whatever pain-n-suffering money and ride it out. But, that's not my situation. So by accepting the buyout, and selling my race car (since kids are now my preoccupation), this is going to do us just fine. I so didn't want to go to truck based GMs, Fords, or Toyotas...

GL550s are holding their value, and I have basically a new copy, at a greatly depreciated price. I'll hold out hope the diesels come back to NA, and that diesel-electrics become available.

While I remain a VAG and Touareg fanboy, albeit a bit jaded after all this, I very much appreciate the great people I've met on this site, will look forward to following the saga to its conclusion, and reading about thevchoices others make, if they are getting something else, and want to wish everyone the best of luck and lots of happy safe motoring ahead.

Cheers...Matt

 

[Stabone33]

Range Rover Sport beats Q7 and MDX in JD Power Dependability Survey

Posting because I'm interested in the RRS and New Disco as my T2 replacement. The new Discovery is basically a RRS frame with a Disco body on top - same V6 engine choices, same drivetrain, transmission, and same air suspension when the Disco is so optioned.

Rated vehicles are 3 years old (i.e., 3-year survey), so this was for the 2014 model year, which represents the first year of a complete re-design of the Range Rover and RRS. Q7 was at the end of a generation, and MDX at the beginning of its current generation, I believe. That's impressive for the first year of a complete redesign, since recalls and service notices are pretty much a given.

JD Power also threw out some specific props to LR for being one of the most improved in dependability rankings.

LR is rated ahead of Ford, RAM, Dodge, Infinity and Jeep at the brand level; at the brand level they're now rated "about average" in terms of dependability in all categories. From a performance competitor standpoint, only Jeep and Toyota make vehicles that can off-road with as much capability as the RRS/Disco. I don't count the G-Wagen since those are off-road probably less than the RRS and start a hell of a lot higher in price, but you can throw those in too if you want.

Porsche is still at the top in luxury brands and came in #2 in the same category as the RRS and Q7. Couldn't find the Touareg. Amusingly, the FJ was rated #1 in its category.

2017 Vehicle Dependability Study | J.D. Power

2017 Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) by Make | J.D. Power

2017 Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) by Category | J.D. Power

 

[cmflossin]

that's where i'm leaning too Stabone. did a LR off road experience a few weeks back in a new RRS and loved it. i wish the budget would allow for one. my plan right now is to hold on to the t2 until the new discovery has released for a while and then pick up a LR4 as prices should be dropping with the new model coming. for the buyback amount i may even be able to add an extended warranty to it. i will miss the tdi greatly, but otherwise the lr ticks all the boxes.

 

[HotRodW]

On paper the Discovery sounds great ... Range Rover mechanicals at a Land Rover price. I just wish I liked the styling better. I love the new Velar, but it gets salty, too, and no 3.0 diesel diesel option. Plus I hate that the controls are virtually all touch screen. Better to just settle for the slightly less appealing platform-mate F-Pace or step up to the RR Sport.

 

[ccrocket]

Two new options popped up on my scan for a Gen1 replacement. Hoping to get a look at the new Volvo V90XC when it hits the showrooms later this year. Big step down on towing capacity, but I may not need that anymore, and it would be nice to go back to a more car-like feel. Had a V70XC years ago and it was a bit boring, but the V90XC looks quite nice. Anybody else looking at that?

Also want to take a look at the new Alfa Stelvio when that hits our shores later this year. Had a '66 Duetto in the old days so this would itch the long dormant alfisti in me. The 505 hp Quadrifoglio is insane, but it looks like it should be a nice handling Q5-like crossover even in the more staid 280HP version. Lower towing than the Treg again, but may be enough for me. I definitely don't want to go any bigger than the Treg so the Atlas, or any other larger SUV's like the JGC or Rovers are out for me. I also don't want a gasser SUV that's even the same size as the Treg because of mileage, so it's either a large wagon, Allroad, V90XC, or medium SUV like the Stelvio.

Anyone else looking at the V90XC or Stelvio? I saw a V90XC in the Stockholm airport recently and it looked pretty sweet.

 

[HotRodW]

Two new options popped up on my scan for a Gen1 replacement. Hoping to get a look at the new Volvo V90XC when it hits the showrooms later this year. Big step down on towing capacity, but I may not need that anymore, and it would be nice to go back to a more car-like feel. Had a V70XC years ago and it was a bit boring, but the V90XC looks quite nice. Anybody else looking at that?

Also want to take a look at the new Alfa Stelvio when that hits our shores later this year. Had a '66 Duetto in the old days so this would itch the long dormant alfisti in me. The 505 hp Quadrifoglio is insane, but it looks like it should be a nice handling Q5-like crossover even in the more staid 280HP version. Lower towing than the Treg again, but may be enough for me. I definitely don't want to go any bigger than the Treg so the Atlas, or any other larger SUV's like the JGC or Rovers are out for me. I also don't want a gasser SUV that's even the same size as the Treg because of mileage, so it's either a large wagon, Allroad, V90XC, or medium SUV like the Stelvio.

Anyone else looking at the V90XC or Stelvio? I saw a V90XC in the Stockholm airport recently and it looked pretty sweet.

The V90 Cross Country is on U.S. dealer lots now. I test drove a loaded model Monday. MSRP: $69,000 (Gulp!!!). My preferred build checks in at a little over $63k. Not cheap!

I love the styling inside and out, and the cargo capacity is excellent. The ride with the optional air suspension was quite comfortable on the standard 19" wheels in Comfort and Eco modes. I only tried Sport mode briefly, and didn't have an opportunity to try the Off-Road setting at all. Despite what the reviews say, I did feel a little turbo lag, which I didn't notice when I drove the XC90 with the same engine last year. It might be more the programming of the throttle tip in than actual turbo lag, but the feel is the same regardless of the cause. Merging/passing power is pretty impressive. The observed fuel economy was anything but. Instant readouts showed efficiency was in the teens and low 20's throughout the test drive. The car had just 60 miles on it at the start of my test drive, and average fuel economy for those 60 miles was 14.2 mpg. (I'm sure the result of plenty of idling time.) When I parked it at 75 miles, the accumulated average increased to 15.7. By my math, I averaged 21.7 mpg according to the computer in mostly highway test drive. I would expect better after break-in, but how much better?

The suspension was lowered when I entered, and after driving the Touareg for nearly three years, the drop down into the seat was a little awkward. The sill is pretty thick, too, so there is a bit of a reach to get into the seat. For me it will take some getting used to, but I can't say if it's a deal-breaker. What might be a deal-breaker, however, is the all-in-one infotainment system. I've played with the system previously, and again before my test drive, but I'm still uncomfortable with the distraction level when using it while driving. Even basic functions take your eyes off the road for too long.

Outward visibility was generally very good, but I found the rearview mirror a bit bothersome. Again, I'm used to Touareg's massive windshield where the mirror is above eye level. Acclimating to a car will take some time. The surround view camera is excellent. I'm in awe every time I get a chance to sample one. Other pluses: Unlike most German models, it has a traditional shifter. It also has conventional (i.e. non-runflat) tires and a spare.

I saw the drool-worthy Stelvio at the NAIS in January. Sexy! But I can't show up at a client's office in an Alfa without making them question whether I'm overcharging, so like the Cayenne and Range Rover, it's not a consideration for me. That's where the Touareg is so brilliant. All the goodies, none of the glamour.

 

[sappunni]

Did anyone consider the VW Atlas ? In DFW area the dealer told me there are going to loyalty cash and special financing deals for tregg owners who might be interested in getting the Atlas.

 

[ccrocket]

The V90 Cross Country is on U.S. dealer lots now. I test drove a loaded model Monday. MSRP: $69,000 (Gulp!!!). My preferred build checks in at a little over $63k. Not cheap!

Thanks for the great info on your test drive. I hadn't realized they were at the dealers yet. Will have to give one a whirl. I think EPA is 30 Hwy, which doesn't sound too bad on paper, but as with most gassers, us lead foots rarely come close. With payback on my Gen1 Exec I'm feeling flush, so the price is not out of the question, though I might take another look at the Allroad or even the BMW diesel wagon at that price level.

Being a previous Alfa owner, I've never thought of them as a conspicuous consumption brand. They were always a hard core driver's brand to me--at least as far as their 60's products which are still magical. Maybe the Stelvio in Red would give off vibes, but nobody knows Alfa anymore so an understated blue or grey would likely slide under the brand envy radar. Now, if I can just stay away from that 505Hp monster I might be able to keep some money in the bank account.

 

[ccrocket]

Did anyone consider the VW Atlas ? In DFW area the dealer told me there are going to loyalty cash and special financing deals for tregg owners who might be interested in getting the Atlas.

Seems like a perfectly fine alternative to a Pilot/Explorer type of car if that's what you need. It's a very different car from the Treg, likely not nearly as refined a ride, not as powerful as the TDi, and generally lower quality feel, but I imagine it will be a perfectly good people hauler for many in that part of the market. I'm leaning more towards a performance driving feel again and away from the big truck thing.

 

[HotRodW]

Did anyone consider the VW Atlas ? In DFW area the dealer told me there are going to loyalty cash and special financing deals for tregg owners who might be interested in getting the Atlas.

Excluding the early prototype drives, here's the first review I've seen. Sounds competitive without necessarily being a standout. I'll drive one at some point, but the I honestly don't see myself buying one.

 

[HotRodW]

Thanks for the great info on your test drive. I hadn't realized they were at the dealers yet. Will have to give one a whirl. I think EPA is 30 Hwy, which doesn't sound too bad on paper, but as with most gassers, us lead foots rarely come close. With payback on my Gen1 Exec I'm feeling flush, so the price is not out of the question, though I might take another look at the Allroad or even the BMW diesel wagon at that price level.

Being a previous Alfa owner, I've never thought of them as a conspicuous consumption brand. They were always a hard core driver's brand to me--at least as far as their 60's products which are still magical. Maybe the Stelvio in Red would give off vibes, but nobody knows Alfa anymore so an understated blue or grey would likely slide under the brand envy radar. Now, if I can just stay away from that 505Hp monster I might be able to keep some money in the bank account.

I'm still waiting to drive the allroad. Looks like my local dealer has no interest in stocking them, so I might have to plan a stop at another dealership when I'm traveling. It's smaller than the Volvo, but far more affordable. A loaded allroad basically stops where the V90 CC begins. Price isn't everything though.

I wish the Stelvio had been out when were were shopping for my wife's Q5 replacement. We definitely would have included it. First model year Alfa is a scary proposition though. But as I said ... SEXY!

 

[Shaolo]

What might be a deal-breaker, however, is the all-in-one infotainment system. I've played with the system previously, and again before my test drive, but I'm still uncomfortable with the distraction level when using it while driving. Even basic functions take your eyes off the road for too long.

I'm guessing most people aren't shown this, but you can control most everything from the voice command system. Press the button and say "Set the temperature to 72˚". It's really nice.

Only thing I can't get over in the XC90 is the 4 cylinder engine.

 

[ccrocket]

Just drove the V90XC today and it's quite a car. Nothing like the Volvo's of old. Chinese ownership and money seems to have done wonders vs. the old Ford days. Smaller than the Treg of course, but it's a dramatically better handling car than the Treg as one would expect of a lower slung wagon vs an SUV. Pricey thing with all the fancy options, but 3500lbs towing is enough for my needs now, and I could definitely see myself moving to one of these. Still want to check out the 2017 Allroad but can't find any on lots yet and I think it will be too small, and then there's the Stelvio sitting there with it's pretty Italian curves whispering to me.

 

[BenTDI]

Hard to find true comparables, but used diesel Cayennes, though harder to find online, are not much more $ than Executive Treg TDI's at the same years and miles. Now if the service experience were comparable, too, you'd have a choice of value/cachet. But whereas I feel confident that the Porsche dealer will treat me and especially my car right (for beaucoup $), I don't feel that certainty with regard to my VW dealer at any price point.

Used 2013 Porsche Cayenne Diesel. Mileage: 43,166. $39950
Used 2013 Volkswagen Touareg TDI Executive. Mileage: 33,825. $39991

I was wondering who it was who had mentioned that the same year Cayenne was now right around the same price as a TDI T3 and it was YOU Mythdoc.

I have to thank you for planting the seed of possible Cayenne Diesel-swap for Gen 1 TDI. I never thought of it until you posted this reply. Thanks! One week in and I'm in love with the truck.

 

[HotRodW]

I'm guessing most people aren't shown this, but you can control most everything from the voice command system. Press the button and say "Set the temperature to 72˚". It's really nice.

Only thing I can't get over in the XC90 is the 4 cylinder engine.

I dislike voice command. I use it for my navigation when I'm already moving, but I find them to be generally unreliable. They're also inconvenient when your passenger is on their phone or napping. Even if it does work all the time every time (it won't), it's still not as simple as turning a dial or pushing a button.

 

[Mythdoc]

I was wondering who it was who had mentioned that the same year Cayenne was now right around the same price as a TDI T3 and it was YOU Mythdoc.

I have to thank you for planting the seed of possible Cayenne Diesel-swap for Gen 1 TDI. I never thought of it until you posted this reply. Thanks! One week in and I'm in love with the truck.

Ha, yeah, you did good. I've been looking on auto trader and there are still some good opportunities in TDI's, including cars that have former leases making the settlement $$ more if someone acts fast. Tregs, Q5's, Q7's (even with air) and Cayennes. As I have been saying, prices are all over the place. Some great opportunities.

 

[Mythdoc]

I was on my Audi Q5 forum today and the subject of the Land Rover Velar came up. The general consensus was that it was a gorgeous car, more striking than the Q5, but likely to have first year manufacturing glitches and other reliability issues. Apparently there is a diesel option there as well. Audi folks are really getting off on the fact that Consumer Reports rated them number one in reliability, and LR near the bottom.

 

[ccrocket]

That is the 2012-2013 grand cherokee. The OP was talking about an EcoDiesel Grand Cherokee which is only 2014+. The 2014's didn't have a problem passing the moose test.

Updated 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee aces same controversial moose test it failed in 2012 [w/video] - Autoblog

Man, I rented a JGC recently in ski country, and what a letdown. The ride was harsh, visibility terrible, virtually no road feel. Couldn't wait to get out of the thing. I guess I'm totally spoiled with the Treg's ride and feel. There's no way I would ever end up in a JGC.

 

[ccrocket]

Anybody intrigued with the new Range Rover Velar? Basically a raised car on an aluminum unibody, but nice looking to my eye, perfectly decent rough roading capability, good towing, and best of all a diesel scheduled for the US market. Looks like I need to add this to the growing list of options.