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We looked at the A4 allroad and we were hopeful that it would work for us. We were coming out of an s6 avant. The main problem with the allroad was the size. The back seat leg room is tight. If I set the driver's seat for me (6'2"), nobody other than a 5 year old could sit behind me. When I set the Touareg driver's seat for me, I can easily fit behind the driver's seat with leg room and head room to spare. The other issue was the price as it was not that much more money to get into the Touareg. I also think the Touareg is better built, sturdier, and has better engine choices vs the A4 allroad.

I would prefer the next wagon size up, like the A6/E class/Passat instead of the A4 allroad. You can find low mileage 2016 MB E350 wagons with awd in the mid $50K range. That puts in the same price class as the Touareg. I have driven the Volvo S90 and the XC90 and they are very nice. They are about 6 inches longer than the Touareg and the XC90 comes with a third row. I have not driven the V90 wagon.
 
Well, I just priced one out at $65k so I'm probably not considering that anymore!
I'm going to start test driving this weekend. Starting with a Ford Raptor and Toyota 4 Runner. Mirror to mirror there is only a 3" difference so might as well.
I had briefly considered a new Raptor, they are without question the best looking truck out there.
And that price likely didn't include the $5-10k markup for the 2017's either. They generally go for well above MSRP.
 
I drove a 2017 Range Rover Sport SE Td6 today. I am in lust.

Aside from the typical turbodiesel lag just on tip-in, it is amazingly quick and sounds fantastic, and then once it's up on plane it's just quiet and solid! It is way quicker than the Touareg, almost doesn't even sound like a diesel - much more muscular sounding. Except on startup - barely a whisper. The exhaust engineers did a great job. The standard air suspension makes it feel like a sports car in the corners but practically glides over dips, potholes, and bumps. The turbo lag was very minimal - and once you know where it is, getting on the throttle - say, to shoot a gap in turning across traffic - it is short and predictable. The 8-speed ZF that everyone is using these days seems well-matched.

Inside, well, it's obviously two classes above my base 2010 Treg TDI. The seats are great - excellent bolstering, and perfect cushioning. I felt like it was tailored to my spine, without adjusting anything. The leather is plush but thick feeling - should be quite durable. I'd have to sit in a Volvo XC90 again to determine which one gets the edge, but right now I'd say they're at least equal in terms of comfort. Not as much leg room in the rear as I'd like to see, however, but the seats are deep so it's still not that crowded for average 'Muricans. The two outboard rear seats are pretty well bucketed, so the center position is even less useful than on the Touareg. Don't even bother with a 3rd row.

Cargo is the same as the Touareg, maybe a hair lower and a hair longer.

Negatives: Heated seats are extra with the climate pack (the one I drove didn't have them, we looked everywhere), no Homelink for the love of Pete - that's part of a $2000+ option pack. My Subaru came standard with both of those! And so did my Treg! And some of the options are priced strangely.

We also talked about the new Disco - sales and service reps were just back from orientation in Arizona. He said it looks much better in person - at first he thought he hated the design, but says now he thinks it looks great. The videos he took of some super-beefy rock crawling were pretty amazing. He drove the Td6 and said it would be the one he would buy. Off-roading he said it was a beast and the videos looked it. Cool features, too - heated seats and homelink standard! - and electronically folding 2nd (and if you option it) 3rd row. Buttons both in the infotainment system AND in the rear cargo area to fold seats remotely. Said it will be 1,000lb lighter than the LR4. EPA is finishing up towing testing, which is the last step - they're hoping it will be certified for 8000+lbs towing - the gas supercharged V6 (same as in RRS, and all of the Jags) just got certified with that rating. They are having a release party in April at the dealership, so we'll be there to check it out. Order now, they say June delivery.
 
Add to the RR Sport: standard 360 degree cameras. Can see top-down view around the vehicle, and in off-road camera mode, you can choose a corner to look at - the views show the front wheel and what's around it (camera must be under the side view), plus a view ahead in your blind spot below the hood (two cameras in the front fascia somewhere).

Damn, it drove nice too.
 
I drove a 2017 Range Rover Sport SE Td6 today. I am in lust.

Aside from the typical turbodiesel lag just on tip-in, it is amazingly quick and sounds fantastic, and then once it's up on plane it's just quiet and solid! It is way quicker than the Touareg, almost doesn't even sound like a diesel - much more muscular sounding. Except on startup - barely a whisper. The exhaust engineers did a great job. The standard air suspension makes it feel like a sports car in the corners but practically glides over dips, potholes, and bumps. The turbo lag was very minimal - and once you know where it is, getting on the throttle - say, to shoot a gap in turning across traffic - it is short and predictable. The 8-speed ZF that everyone is using these days seems well-matched.

Inside, well, it's obviously two classes above my base 2010 Treg TDI. The seats are great - excellent bolstering, and perfect cushioning. I felt like it was tailored to my spine, without adjusting anything. The leather is plush but thick feeling - should be quite durable. I'd have to sit in a Volvo XC90 again to determine which one gets the edge, but right now I'd say they're at least equal in terms of comfort. Not as much leg room in the rear as I'd like to see, however, but the seats are deep so it's still not that crowded for average 'Muricans. The two outboard rear seats are pretty well bucketed, so the center position is even less useful than on the Touareg. Don't even bother with a 3rd row.

Cargo is the same as the Touareg, maybe a hair lower and a hair longer.

Negatives: Heated seats are extra with the climate pack (the one I drove didn't have them, we looked everywhere), no Homelink for the love of Pete - that's part of a $2000+ option pack. My Subaru came standard with both of those! And so did my Treg! And some of the options are priced strangely.

We also talked about the new Disco - sales and service reps were just back from orientation in Arizona. He said it looks much better in person - at first he thought he hated the design, but says now he thinks it looks great. The videos he took of some super-beefy rock crawling were pretty amazing. He drove the Td6 and said it would be the one he would buy. Off-roading he said it was a beast and the videos looked it. Cool features, too - heated seats and homelink standard! - and electronically folding 2nd (and if you option it) 3rd row. Buttons both in the infotainment system AND in the rear cargo area to fold seats remotely. Said it will be 1,000lb lighter than the LR4. EPA is finishing up towing testing, which is the last step - they're hoping it will be certified for 8000+lbs towing - the gas supercharged V6 (same as in RRS, and all of the Jags) just got certified with that rating. They are having a release party in April at the dealership, so we'll be there to check it out. Order now, they say June delivery.
I have been looking at the Discovery as well. Really impressive on paper. I'm hesitant to order one w/o being able to drive it or poke around the electronics though. It has the Incontrol Touch Pro which is supposed to be better than what the RRsport has, but still no Apple CarPlay or Android Auto. It is supposed to have the diesel option though... I like the Land Rovers a lot. But I can't find anyone that claims to have paid less than MSRP for a LR period. Conversely the consensus on MBworld seems to be you should get at least 8% off and 10% is considered a decent deal with people even getting as much as 13%. I like the GLE350 and the AMG43. Pricing out the Q7 seems to be in the same back park. People say if you shop that one around you can get 6% off sticker.


I swore up and down my next vehicle was going to have a low speed transfer case. I had been holding out hoping VW was going to bring 4xmotion back to the states before the diesel cheats became public. I can't bring myself to even consider a gas Egg.

Neither Audi or BMW seem to offer Diesel options in the states. Jeep seems to have pulled their diesel options as well. Land Rover is the only one that offers a low speed transfer case aside from Jeep. Comparing the Jeep interior to the Touareg makes me cringe.
 
I love everything about the new Discovery except the price new and the fact that there are not three years of used vehicles out there to find just the right one depreciated. Sport, not so much. I know the feeling of being in lust, though. I am surprisingly smitten by the Q5 TDI I just bought. I am getting ridiculous mpg and the interior and vehicle manners are amazing. Anytime you purchase well into a vehicle design generation you have to put up with some things. The Audi mmi (infotainment), though faster than Treg, is feeling its age with all the clicks and buttons.
 
I have been looking at the Discovery as well. Really impressive on paper. I'm hesitant to order one w/o being able to drive it or poke around the electronics though. It has the Incontrol Touch Pro which is supposed to be better than what the RRsport has, but still no Apple CarPlay or Android Auto. It is supposed to have the diesel option though... I like the Land Rovers a lot. But I can't find anyone that claims to have paid less than MSRP for a LR period. Conversely the consensus on MBworld seems to be you should get at least 8% off and 10% is considered a decent deal with people even getting as much as 13%. I like the GLE350 and the AMG43. Pricing out the Q7 seems to be in the same back park. People say if you shop that one around you can get 6% off sticker.


I swore up and down my next vehicle was going to have a low speed transfer case. I had been holding out hoping VW was going to bring 4xmotion back to the states before the diesel cheats became public. I can't bring myself to even consider a gas Egg.

Neither Audi or BMW seem to offer Diesel options in the states. Jeep seems to have pulled their diesel options as well. Land Rover is the only one that offers a low speed transfer case aside from Jeep. Comparing the Jeep interior to the Touareg makes me cringe.
2017+ RR Sport comes with InControl Touch Pro standard. The one I drove had it. It's pretty nice - easily customizable, giant screen, didn't hiccup in the few minutes we played with it. Didn't try voice controls, only played with the cameras.

My research indicates Land Rover vehicles in general can be had for $3k or so below MSRP. They are a low volume, luxury automaker - supposedly only ~80k Range Rovers have been sold worldwide since 2014, so they don't generally offer incentives to get people in the new ones, only sales incentives on previous model year vehicles. You'll never find a stripper model on the lot, so the cheapest ones are generally mid-70k's (that's where I am in my configs), with most over $80k. It's the extras you deal on - tint, warranty, paint protection, accessories, maybe nicer wheels.

He did say they have had some VW and Audi buyback traffic already - the XE and F-Pace are hot. There was another RR Sport HSE Td6 in the showroom prepped for delivery - Kaikoura Stone (very pretty tan/bronze metallic color), with Espresso (very dark brown) seats with light tan trim - very sharp.

Sales guy told me they are pitching the Disco as a competitor to the Q7, Volvo XC90, and something else I wasn't interested in so I don't remember. Maybe a Benz or something. He drove both the Q7 and XC90 at the orientation but they didn't take competitors offroad - as always, this is the niche they're trying to get. They're bringing the Disco upmarket to sit between the RR Sport and 2019 Defender, Defender to be the "utilitarian" model. The Disco is an inch lower at the roof and "a finger width wider" than the LR4.

He did say they don't plan on offering Android Auto or CarPlay any time soon. Some of the features JLR's InControl Touch Pro offers are similar - route learning, voice control, etc. I think the reason is they want tighter integration with native apps for remotely checking your fuel level, remote start, remote climate control, send a preplanned route to the car before you leave, send ETA updates to people at your destination, etc, which AA/CP doesn't support.
 
2017+ RR Sport comes with InControl Touch Pro standard. The one I drove had it. It's pretty nice - easily customizable, giant screen, didn't hiccup in the few minutes we played with it. Didn't try voice controls, only played with the cameras.
I wish they would update their website then. I know the Touch Pro is definitely going to be on the Discovery and their Touch Pro site says available on the Evoque only. <sigh>


Sales guy told me they are pitching the Disco as a competitor to the Q7, Volvo XC90, and something else I wasn't interested in so I don't remember. Maybe a Benz or something. He drove both the Q7 and XC90 at the orientation but they didn't take competitors offroad - as always, this is the niche they're trying to get. They're bringing the Disco upmarket to sit between the RR Sport and 2019 Defender, Defender to be the "utilitarian" model. The Disco is an inch lower at the roof and "a finger width wider" than the LR4.
It's probably the GLE350 from MB. OR their slightly higher model the GLE43.

I would personally love to have a Defender. Not sure I can wait until 2019 on the assumption they will decided to sell it here.
 
2017+ RR Sport comes with InControl Touch Pro standard. The one I drove had it. It's pretty nice - easily customizable, giant screen, didn't hiccup in the few minutes we played with it. Didn't try voice controls, only played with the cameras.
I wish they would update their website then. I know the Touch Pro is definitely going to be on the Discovery and their Touch Pro site says available on the Evoque only. <sigh>
/QUOTE]

It shows up when you configure it, at least for me. The giveaway is the 10" 2:1 aspect touch screen with no hard buttons along the sides.
 
This is going to make a lot of you sick, but I went ahead and made my move. I picked up a new 2017 Honda Pilot EX-L w/Nav. We needed something big to haul people and stuff. It was pretty much going to be a Suburban/Yukon XL or the Pilot because we looked at every large SUV with 7 or 8 passenger capability and those 2 were the only ones that had a decent 3rd row seat + decent luggage space behind the 3rd row. The Dodge Durango was close, but I just can't bring myself to buy a Dodge. The packaging on the Honda is interesting with a very short hood, leaving more interior space for something that still easily fits in my garage. Between the Suburban and the Honda was about a $20K difference. I felt like the Suburban was overpriced and just too big so we went with the Honda which should give me better residual value % as well.

I would have liked to consider the 2017 LR Discovery, but it's still not here and even if it was that was going to be a $24K difference in price.

Our other major need was that we need something with more than sedan ground clearance and a great AWD system because our road in Tahoe sometimes doesn't get plowed for days. The Pilot has the same AWD system as the Acura MDX that in the most recent iteration gets good reviews. So far it's been very solid on snow.

Our buyback should just about cover the entire cost of the Pilot except $3-4K.

The Pilot drives just like a minivan. Whoever tells you any different is stoking their own ego. Numb steering & floaty, it's not an enthusiast vehicle. MPG's have been averaging close to EPA at 21, which is acceptable for a gasser. Power is there but not nearly as accessible as it was in the Touareg. When I get back in the Touareg I can't believe how much better it is in almost every way except ability to carry stuff, seat comfort, and overall cost of ownership.

I will have the Touareg for a few more months before the buyback, and then when my wife's A6 lease is up next January we hope to find a 2013-16 Touareg TDI replace it with. She's on board with that plan and in fact was the one to suggest it (she's a keeper). The A6 is great but it was not the best choice because it is ridiculously low to the ground and can't deal with Tahoe winters at all. My sister-in-law has a 2014 Touareg TDI she is going to want to get rid of so I have my eye on that as a possibility. Then our garage will be whole again.

I think I would have been a lifelong Touareg TDI enthusiast if it wasn't for VW screwing up, but I will hang on as long as I can, with a brief break while we finish out the lease term.
 
Ford released photos of the 2018 Expedition today, and I found it to be a pleasant surprise inside and out. Unfortunately, the diesel won't be available at launch, and there is no talk of it being offered later. I think Ford is missing a big opportunity. I'd consider one myself if I could get it with the diesel.

2018 Ford Expedition Photos and Info ? News ? Car and Driver

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Ford released photos of the 2018 Expedition today, and I found it to be a pleasant surprise inside and out. Unfortunately, the diesel won't be available at launch, and there is no talk of it being offered later. I think Ford is missing a big opportunity. I'd consider one myself if I could get it with the diesel.

2018 Ford Expedition Photos and Info ? News ? Car and Driver

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I don't think I can fit that in my garage w/o removing the air compressor against the back wall. Expeditions are huuuuge. I do like the interior though. It's ironic the exterior screams Suburban though.
 
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