[Lars_NM]

You make power with fuel, timing and air in a diesel. The end. What exactly are we trying to accomplish with this thread?

I'm trying to understand what Malone has changed in stage 1.

 

[Lars_NM]

100 agree. Heck, most German cars are still coming under boosted from the factory but not the Touareg. They're off map and running warm even stock. There are European options for bigger turbos but not a ton of power to be made, easily, for the 3.0 TDI

especially with the CATA which has a smaller turbo than the gen 2 3.0 TDI.

 

[chewblekka]

I'm trying to understand what Malone has changed in stage 1.

Have you tried, I dunno, asking them directly?

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

With a stock tune but full emissions delete, max exhaust temp is 856c

Toasty IAT.
I see you also chose to just go ahead with your own parameters instead of matching what I was attempting to collect, even after asking me.....

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

full emissions delete stock tune I am seeing EGT's of 856c

you can keep the tune stock with an emissions delete, or even do a partial delete like delete EGR and SCR but keep DPF. I have not heard anybody doing that but I think it makes complete sense. DPF's do better with high EGT's to burn off the carbon. EGR reduces EGT's (EGR is disabled during regens). I don't think SCR has any negative effect on EGT's or fuel ratio, but with high EGT's you will use allot more DEF. So deleting EGR (which we all hate) helps with the DPF carbon burn off.

Nobody deleted everything but the DPF because...you can't. The DPF would clog of compaction in no time rendering the car inoperable.

I'm trying to understand what Malone has changed in stage 1.

Ask them....... But it's going to be air, fuel and timing or a combination of the three.

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

I'm just used to PSI for boost so that's converted from bar.

And here, stupid me, always thought that PSI and BAR were units of measurement for pressure.....
But wait....was the issue that it was a calculated value or a converted UOM?
If we are driving while pacing each other in our eggs, and my speedo reads 100kph and yours reads 62mph, are we really pacing each other? Or are we even moving?

 

[chewblekka]

If we are driving while pacing each other in our eggs, and my speedo reads 100kph and yours reads 62mph, are we really pacing each other? Or are we even moving?

That depends on how many apples you picked up at each station, multiplied by 4 per pound plus a kilo of pears.

 

[lnxguy]

That depends on how many apples you picked up at each station, multiplied by 4 per pound plus a kilo of pears.

I've wondered how long it would take for a conversation to go fruity...

 

[Lars_NM]

Have you tried, I dunno, asking them directly?

Yes, I submitted a question.

 

[Lars_NM]

Toasty IAT.
I see you also chose to just go ahead with your own parameters instead of matching what I was attempting to collect, even after asking me.....
View attachment 271158



View attachment 271157

I'm still learning this.
Can you explain to me what the IDE numbers mean? how do i find IDE04677? Also what is MVB?

I usually go into Advanced Measurement values and do a search but not all the measurement groups are listed. If I go into the measurement block (08) page and go through all the groups which seem to go from 1-254, I see there is sensor data that isn't in the Advanced measurements block page.

Is there a way i can add all the measurement locations to the Advanced Measurements page?

So I need to know what the group number is that you want since IDE# means nothing to me.


You wanted:
These are the MVBs I'm looking for
IDE00021 - Engine RPM--got it
IDE00190 - Charge air pressure: specified value--can add, not sure what the value is except to flag that the turbo can't meet specified value.
IDE00191 - Charge air pressure: actual value--got it
IDE00348 - Intake air temperature--got it.
IDE00361 - Ambient air pressure--I usually just take the boost pressure value with the engine off for this.
IDE02229 - Exhaust gas temperature sensor 1--got it
IDE04677 - Oxygen sensor 1 bank 1: lambda actual value--this isn't in Advanced measurement value page.
ENG106231 - Ambient temperature --I already get IAT, what additional info does this provide?

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

I'm still learning this.
Can you explain to me what the IDE numbers mean? how do i find IDE04677? Also what is MVB?

In simplified terms, MVB (measuring value blocks) and IDE (advanced measuring values - typically corresponding to factory data identifiers) are more or less just "values".
MVBs are visible in 08 like you've found out, and IDEs are under Adv. Meas. Values
Depending on the vehicle, configuration and controllers it has, you maybe have both, or only one of those options.
The configuration will also dictate what you can see, and what's specifically labeled for your controller.
Lastly, if VCDS is missing label files for a controller, you won't be seeing anything there.... so this is when (and why) it is important that everyone with a legit VCDS does channel maps and sends them to RT, since they rely on all that info to update\develop all the data that improves the tool and helps everyone else.

So, the IDEs I wanted and mentioned, are from a CNRB and a later model, are potentially different than what you have (also CAN vs USD\CAN controller mix).
This means that you may not have the same IDEs or even equivalent MVBs to look up.... you will have to poke around and figure out what you have, or what MVB displays that same info, etc.

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

IDE00190 - Charge air pressure: specified value--can add, not sure what the value is except to flag that the turbo can't meet specified value.

This shows if your tune is requesting more boost than an OEM setup, or if there's an issue where you're unable to make the requested boost (read charge leak) which could cause a rich condition and elevated EGTs.

IDE00361 - Ambient air pressure--I usually just take the boost pressure value with the engine off for this.

Without this, we can't tell how much boost you're running if VCDS is reporting absolute pressure.

IDE04677 - Oxygen sensor 1 bank 1: lambda actual value--this isn't in Advanced measurement value page.

Unless you don't have any oxygen sensors, it should exist somewhere.

ENG106231 - Ambient temperature --I already get IAT, what additional info does this provide?

Knowing ambient temp allows for determining if your intercooling is up to task.... hot ambient temps naturally already result in hot IATs.... but if you have a massive delta, then you're either inducing way too much heat into the boost, or once again, something is wrong with your SMICs, etc.

 

[Lars_NM]

This shows if your tune is requesting more boost than an OEM setup, or if there's an issue where you're unable to make the requested boost (read charge leak) which could cause a rich condition and elevated EGTs.

Without this, we can't tell how much boost you're running if VCDS is reporting absolute pressure.

Unless you don't have any oxygen sensors, it should exist somewhere.

Knowing ambient temp allows for determining if your intercooling is up to task.... hot ambient temps naturally already result in hot IATs.... but if you have a massive delta, then you're either inducing way too much heat into the boost, or once again, something is wrong with your SMICs, etc.

OK thanks for educating me
1) I'll add Requested Boost I know that is in "Adv Meas. Values"
2) I'll look for ambient pressure. It didn't make sense to me to datalog a constant. I usually datalog some boost values with the engine off or use the boost at idle as atmospheric pressure. I then use that to calculate gauge PSI boost from the absolute bar boost in excel. If I'm sending out the files to other people it make sense to add this as long as it doesn't put me over the 12 parameter datalog limit. I'll search in "Adv. Meas. Values"
3) I have an O2 sensor. That is definitely not in "Adv. Meas. Values" but it is in "Meas. Blocks - 08" I need to get some documentation on these blocks. and figure out how to map them into "Adv. Meas. Values" which is better for datalogging.
4) I thought I was reading the MAF temperature, but it looks like I'm reading the MAP temperature. I'll add MAF temperature if I can find it.

I did do a channel map and uploaded them to RT. I wasn't persistent with RT and I'm not sure what if anything happened. I expected, it would eventual get updated in some release. I'm seeing this is important.

 

[Lars_NM]

Nobody deleted everything but the DPF because...you can't. The DPF would clog of compaction in no time rendering the car inoperable.

I deleted everything but the DPF for a couple months while waiting for my exhaust. It seemed to work OK. The system still monitored DPF back pressure and did regens if needed.

The more efficient the combustion, the less soot is generated. EGR doesn't improve combustion. It is actually designed to do the opposite. It lowers exhaust temperatures to reduce NOX. An EGR delete delete improves combustion and increases exhaust temperature which is good for the DPF. I don't think that SCR has much effect on DPF, but if SCR is still active, it may be modifying the fuel map to reduce EGT and thus NOX? Or it may be just dealing with whatever the NOX is and increases DEF usage up to some allowable limit? That could probably be figured out by seeing if SCR affects EGT. Either way, SCR delete is a neutral or a benefit to DPF operation.

So as long as you are not over fueling the engine, creating a lot of extra Soot, I think that EGR, SCR delete with DPF and Stock tune could work well.

 

[casioqv]

From this discussion, I would expect that the Malone tune would increase soot production, and require more frequent regens if done without a DPF delete.

 

[Lars_NM]

From this discussion, I would expect that the Malone tune would increase soot production, and require more frequent regens if done without a DPF delete.

You know that stock is one of the tune options, in addition to stage 1 and stage 2
So you have a stock tune, you delete EGR, and SCR, and soot goes up? Why?

 

[casioqv]

You know that stock is one of the tune options, in addition to stage 1 and stage 2
So you have a stock tune, you delete EGR, and SCR, and soot goes up? Why?

I did not know that, I was only talking about tunes that increase power without increasing boost. I've gone back and forth about doing a tune, but if I did it would be just for horsepower, I wouldn't try to delete any emissions equipment.

 

[Lars_NM]

I did not know that, I was only talking about tunes that increase power without increasing boost. I've gone back and forth about doing a tune, but if I did it would be just for horsepower, I wouldn't try to delete any emissions equipment.

I think anytime you add more fuel or boost, you are essentially making your engine bigger, but your emissions systems, like your DPF and SCR haven't gotten any bigger, so there could be issues depending on their capacity.

 

[casioqv]

I think anytime you add more fuel or boost, you are essentially making your engine bigger, but your emissions systems, like your DPF and SCR haven't gotten any bigger, so there could be issues depending on their capacity.

Yeah, ultimately I do like going fast, but man is this stock Touareg already fast. I've been driving 70s-80s diesels most of my life, and this thing is mind blowingly fast, but crazy complex. I have zero interest in any changes that might make it less reliable in exchange for even more power, when ultimately towing and off-roading in remote places is my major use of this vehicle.

 

[Lars_NM]

Yeah, ultimately I do like going fast, but man is this stock Touareg already fast. I've been driving 70s-80s diesels most of my life, and this thing is mind blowingly fast, but crazy complex. I have zero interest in any changes that might make it less reliable in exchange for even more power, when ultimately towing and off-roading in remote places is my major use of this vehicle.

I'm exactly in the same place. I'm happy with the existing power of the 3.0l CATA. I'm primarily trying to improve reliability. If I can reduce operating cost at the same time then that is a plus.