FAQ#1 on the Power Service website says it's safe

//greg//

 

I'd take a look through this thread for some background on the whole question of additives:

VW Guidance/Policy (Diesel Particulate Filter and Fuel Additives) - VW TDI forum and Audi TDI forum - myturbodiesel.com

 

If your in the states I wouldn't go without a lubricity additive. The HFFR value on U.S. fuel is too close to the minimum spec to risk going without. A hpfp failure on a v6 tdi would probably cost close to $15,000 to repair.

 

However, I am quite afraid to use this in my 2011 Touareg because of the Adblue system and other emissions stuff.

Any thoughts on this matter is very much appreciated.

- Ryan

The adblue system wouldnt' be affected at all with the XPD as it is injected post DPF. The pre-adblue injection exhaust isn't that much different from your 2011 jetta tdi. XPD is ULSD safe, and "supposed" to be DPF safe, so there really is nothing different to using this in your V6 TDI vs your 2.0 TDI.

 

I have used XPD since purchase, around 10K miles so far. Everything fine.

 

Diesel additive won't do anything to the Adblue system, it's all downstream of the combustion process.

I've always used an additive, initially for lubrication, but through having my oil analysis done by Dyson Analysis and discussions with Terry I think we short change the need for injection and combustion chamber deposits and soot control.

Two Shell stations in my market sell B5 so I'm not concerned with lubricity. On the road I add a quart of Hyperfuels Biocube B100 which gives me around B1 on a 20 gallon fill up. I still use an additive even with using bio-blend fuels. Never go without it. My engine is still breaking in and I don't drive a standard route so I have no way to judge any mpg changes.

I've used a gallon of XPD and have nothing bad to say about the experience. I'm now using Renewable Lubricant's summer additive or LCD's FPPlus or FP-60. I would be more comfortable with RLI's summer if lubricity was a concern, but both of these products are proven injector and chamber cleaners. Again, no knock against XPD, it's just that the guy I pay for his expertise has more knowledge about the formulation of the others.

 

I checked into RLI's website and they manufacture soy based additive and for Diesel it's the Bio-Power.

And since this is soy based, this will provide better lubricity if I am understanding this correctly?

 

I used Lucas in every tank for well over a year in my old R5 TDI and my DPF "blew up" I have no idea if it is related to the use of Lucas in every tank and I am not blaming the Lucas but it happened all the same. I was 3 months out of warranty and VW picked up the tab on a goodwill claim which I believe was very rare given it was for a DPF over $4,000.

 

I'm not sure of the R5 DPF, but on some VWs the DPF is combined with a cat and I'm sure the combo unit is very expensive. The DPF on the T3 is a single bolt on item with a ceramic honeycomb inside of a stainless housing. There are pictures on the myturbodiesel website and I think customspooling has linked to some DPF removal pics showing how to beat out the ceramic with a chisel. There really isn't anything to 'blow up'. When the soot is burned off it leaves ash and at some point the ash build up is such that a sensor (attached, not part of) throws a code. The DPF can either be removed and cleaned or replaced. If we own our cars long enough we will have to do this. An additive approved for ULSD will not hurry this process, use of a non low SAPS oil might.

 

I was wondering how many Touareg owners out there use Diesel fuel additives. Any benefits or marked improvement in power / fuel economy?

I recently traded my 2005 Chevy Silverado with the Duramax diesel and had used the XPD from the Spicer report for the last 2 years. I also have a 2011 Jetta in which I religiously mix the XPD each diesel fill ups. However, I am quite afraid to use this in my 2011 Touareg because of the Adblue system and other emissions stuff.

Any thoughts on this matter is very much appreciated.

- Ryan

Coming up on 53k mi using 2 quarts of B100 splashed-blended with ULSD on every fill. (Refilling at/near the reserve level, that amounts to about B2.)--Chris

 

Look back at

http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f67/diesel-fuel-additive-38777.html

Regards

Gerald

 

(Back to the topic)
This may interest you. Sounds like this group attempted to use scientific methods to evaluate the lubricity functions of various diesel fuel additives (this makes no claims on fuel efficiency, reducing smoke, etc, but supposedly would predict long-term wear caused by the ULSD):
http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/mediawiki/images/3/34/Diesel_fuel_additive_test.pdf

Wonder how well this lab-based test holds up in the "real world" experience?

 

(Back to the topic)
This may interest you. Sounds like this group attempted to use scientific methods to evaluate the lubricity functions of various diesel fuel additives (this makes no claims on fuel efficiency, reducing smoke, etc, but supposedly would predict long-term wear caused by the ULSD):
http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/mediawiki/images/3/34/Diesel_fuel_additive_test.pdf

Wonder how well this lab-based test holds up in the "real world" experience?

This is the SPICER test from several years back from Diesel Place. This was what convinced me to use the Opti-lube XPD (still using after several years) in my Duramax truck. However, I may be shifting to another product and like wensteph said, the products used in this test are already outdated. I too am concerned about injector and combustion chamber cleaning. So I may be trying FP60 as soon as I use up all my remaining Optilube.

Another thing that concerned me is that, I read a post by a member in a thread on Diesel Place that somewhat intrigued me about XPD (not saying that they are not a good product). Member said that they seemed to be operating in a garage or something. Then I checked them out in the EPA registered products for fuel additives and didn't see them there either, or I could be wrong.

 

That's what's called the Spicer test and has been linked to several times. It's pretty outdated and some of the products tested have changed formulation. The actual test was conducted by a top line testing facility, but some knock the test because all the products save Opti-Lube XPD were purchased over the counter. XPD was a new product and was supplied by the manufacturer, but Spicer was upfront about that. There are many satisfied XPD users. The test method used was an industry standard.

As you say, the test only concerned lubricity. My opinion is injector and combustion chamber cleaning is every bit as important as lubricity.

 

Thanks for the update

 

I've used a few brands including Stanadyne and Lucas diesel additives and I really don't think fuel additives do anything than perhaps a fuel system cleanse. IMO, if you want to add stuff to your fuel, spend it on fuel stabiliser to preserve the stuff in the tank and stop is degrading.

 

Xam-D

The LCD products are good cleaners, but I'd throw something else in with them for lubricity. I've got a gallon of FP60 and a partial gallon of the newer FPPlus. The FPPlus is a leap of faith since it is thought to be the same product in the bottle for both diesel and gas engines, but the bottle is marked for gasoline engines. I used it exclusively on an 8,000 mile OCI and soot was "0" which is almost unheard of on a diesel engine. I switched to RLI summer and a UOA at 5,000 miles showed soot at 0.17 ppm which is still very low, but not zero. I'm now using a cocktail of RLI and either FPPlus or FP60. They all clean, RLI gives me lubricity, but both FP60 and FPPlus were formulated to also control soot.

 

If cleaning is an issue even optilube seems to be a solvant similar to biodiesel. This would indicate it being really good at removing deposits in the engine. I tried a few tanks of XPD in my old 1.9 tdi and at the 4th fill my fuel filter was clogged with crap that the xpd had loosened out of my tank. So the cleaning part it does very well. I'm sure it's doing the same in the engine. At least with the t-rex it's keeping the tank and engine clean from the get-go.

 

I still don't understand why more folks aren't just adding a little bioD instead. If it's from a quality source, you won't find a better overall additive for the price. And to get the B2 (best) lubricity benefit, we're only talking a couple quarts at the reserve level. To me it's a no-brainer. More than worth it to drive a couple hours each way every several months to fill up a 5-gal. jug... :confused2:

 

several reasons, there are some states which regulate the quality of bio others that don't, in canada it's hardley atainable and even less regulated. If you get poor quality bio you can actually do more damage than good, water, sediment all can do more damage than good if pushed through that hpfp.

 

Absolutely! But quality is an issue with any additive. And with the ability to buy 'cubes' of BD online for shipping across NA, availability has never been better.

 

Shubie, I buy local at two Shell stations that sell B5 which is rack blended by the jobber. On the road I add a quart of B100 which on a 20 gallon fill up gets me to B1. That gives me most of the lubricity of B2. I buy the cube from Hyper Fuel in Houston.

I also use an additive for injector cleaning.

 

I had you in mind wensteph when I mentioned the BD cube. Out of curiousity, how do you transfer it to your tank? For example, does it have a spout that allows direct pour? Also, is the cube graduated?

Since you already go the BD route, why do you stop at B1 and use an injector cleaner? B2 seems to be the benchmark to reliably exceed EU/CA standards. And the solvent side should keep injectors and other components clean.

 

The cube is soft plastic in a cardboard box. It has a spout, but there is no graduation.
http://images.goemerchant.net/StoreData/h/highfuelsn/Images/P10_GEM_BIOCUBE_5_Gal_1.jpg

I transfer to 1 quart Nalgene narrow mouth bottles. When I'm on a trip and need to carry several I put them in one of those fabric wine bottle bags (mine comes from Kroger) that's divided into 6 sections.

I use a single quart to a fill up because it's easier to carry than a half gallon. The biodiesel.org has a chart showing the HFRR scar on B2 at 322 and for B1 at 321. Most of the protection comes at very low blends. http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/Lubricity.PDF

Regardless of the cleaning ability of the bio component the additives I use were also formulated to control soot. Soot is an abrasive. I don't know of anyone else doing UOAs with this engine, but acceptable percentages on Jettas etc is 1%. My last UOA had soot at 0.15 which is the highest reading I've had. I'm blaming that on short trip in-town driving rather than the mostly highway driving I was doing in the summer. I suspect the FP products do a better job controlling soot than the RLI product which is why I'm cocktailing the two of them.

 

Thanks for the helpful info. on the cube. It's good to know there's a fallback to my local B100 source.

That's also an interesting idea to use Nalgene bottles. And if they're the solvent-resistant variety, that'll hopefully eliminate any swelling issues with the cap/neck.

I remember seeing the HFRR scar chart sometime back. But the winter cutting of no. 2 by no. 1 diesel made me uncomfortable relying on B1. A 50/50 (or even 40/60) blend is often used. So that averages out to a scar value of about 410. (A 40/60 blend works out to a value of about 430.) Better than ULSD, but cutting it close to the injector makers' recommended max. of 460...

It's great you're doing UOAs, and it sure would be nice to get more over a range of conditions/users. Since I've run B2 from the start in my Treg, mine would presumably be a good 'end member' to have. Have any good analyzers to recommend?