[casioqv]

Darkside did a destructive test of the recovery points on a V10 TDI Touareg, and found that the factory front tow eye failed at the crossbar, with 8 tons of force, and with a bridle pulling on both eyes and an upgraded winch plate, at 20 tons of force. At 20 tons the end of the frame rails ripped off.

One thing annoying is I cannot figure out is which type of ton they're talking about here: short ton, long ton, and metric ton. However, all 3 are similar, and to be conservative I'd assume the smallest (short ton) at 2,000 lbs.

I find this somewhat concering, as I use a 12,000lb winch on my vehicle, which makes 12 tons of force when used with a snatch block. I do have a Eurowise winch plate somewhat similar to the one they used. However, to maintain a margin of safety, based on this video, I think it may be safer to avoid doubling the force with a snatch block when winching a Touareg, and limit forces to ~6 tons to give you a ~3:1 margin of safety.

If you absolutely must use a snatch block, expect a possibility of ripping the front of the frame off, and use a very long bridle (to reduce inward pinching force) to both front eyes for the anchor that returns back to the vehicle.

 

[PRY4SNO]

Great post, definitely going to watch that video. Darkside has a ton of great content.

The configuration of the bridle will change how much force goes to the vehicle as well. A long sling in a basket configuration will have the most "lift" capacity, so put the most on to the vehicle. A straight pull (vertical) will be next, and a choker orientation will put the least force on the vehicle and have the lowest overall capacity. If you're must use a snatch block, I'd use long slings attached using a choker arrangement to diminish the capacity somewhat (building in a margin of error).

Of course the angle can have an outsized impact, as you've mentioned. 45º is ideal, anything less than 30º puts a ton of force on the slings and should be avoided.

Photo to explain for folks who may be unfamiliar with rigging terminology.

 

[casioqv]

The configuration of the bridle will change how much force goes to the vehicle as well. A long sling in a basket configuration will have the most "lift" capacity, so put the most on to the vehicle.

Can you clarify what you are talking about in the context of these 3 sling options? I was talking about connecting to the factory tow eyes as they did in the video, but I can't think of a way what you wrote makes sense when we're talking about connecting to the tow eyes, especially the choker. Are you talking about something else entirely, like connecting to an anchor point (e.g. tree/rock)?

The tow eyes are engineered for a linear (straight forward) pull, and any sort of bridle will add an inward force that they're not engineered for. So I disagree that a 45 degree bridle is 'ideal'- the longer the bridle the better unless you use a spreader bar to make the force straight forward. In fact, I wouldn't consider using a 45 degree bridle angle at all with factory tow eyes, it would be extremely dangerous.

I'd probably do a bridle on the tow eyes with a 'tree saver' strap I have that is some 20+ feet long, so the pull would be fairly close to straight forward. I also carry a second shorter tree saver strap to actually put on a tree.

 

[PRY4SNO]

Can you clarify what you are talking about in the context of these 3 sling options? I was talking about connecting to the factory tow eyes as they did in the video, but I can't think of a way what you wrote makes sense when we're talking about connecting to the tow eyes, especially the choker. Are you talking about something else entirely, like connecting to an anchor point (e.g. tree/rock)?

Yes, to something in the surroundings, that's not directly in a straight line. I could see scenarios (deep snow, change in elevation) where it may be necessary to attach more than one line and use a load multiplyer (like a comealong, or a winch, etc).

The tow eyes are engineered for a linear (straight forward) pull, and any sort of bridle will add an inward force that they're not engineered for. So I disagree that a 45 degree bridle is 'ideal'- the longer the bridle the better unless you use a spreader bar to make the force straight forward. In fact, I wouldn't consider using a 45 degree bridle angle at all with factory tow eyes, it would be extremely dangerous.

Of course. However this rarely happens in the real world. For instance, nearly any time a vehicle is pulled out of the ditch it's going to be at an angle. That's what I was getting at. Should try to minimize that angle to 45º or less more (60º is better, 90º is best) due to increasing tension on the line with decreasing angle. Whether that's using one sling, or several.

Or it could be that we're talking about entirely different things. Stranger things have happened.

 

[casioqv]

Or it could be that we're talking about entirely different things.

We are- I'm talking about spreading the load to both sides of the structure on the front of the Touareg by pulling from both tow eyes at once.

 

[PRY4SNO]

We are- I'm talking about spreading the load to both sides of the structure on the front of the Touareg by pulling from both tow eyes at once.

That'll do it.

I was talking about multiple lines from the same point (bridle), or the angle of the pull itself in general and how the angle changes the amount of tension.

 

[MidnightTouaregV8]

Once a winch plate welded and gusset to the corners, it greatly increases sheer resistance.

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

An engineer on this site, several years ago, did a break down on how much force the OEM subframes, recovery points and hitch could take before failure. It was a fantastic read and you'd likely enjoy it. Would probably take me 2 weeks to find it though

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

Would probably take me 2 weeks to find it though

That's because you're a techopeasant with the recollection capacity of a Goldfish.

https://www.clubtouareg.com/posts/2044379/

 

[casioqv]

That's because you're a techopeasant with the recollection capacity of a Goldfish.

https://www.clubtouareg.com/posts/2044379/

I’ve seen this before and considered it when setting up my recovery system. He’s only looking at the strength of the fasteners and tow eye. Surprisingly, the Darkside test shows the frame itself, pulling equally from both sides, is only about as strong as a single factory tow eye, and much weaker than the crossbar/winch plate bolts.

On my vehicle I have dual factory front tow eyes I leave installed at all times, both indexed with shim washers to allow for a bridle pull per his suggestion. I have stronger Eurowise recovery eyes, but don’t leave them installed because they activate the parking sensors, and the factory ones don’t.

Knowing what I know now, I’m not likely to ever try using the bridle and snatch block, as it will generate more than enough force to destroy the vehicle. Better to stay stuck and try something else!

I honestly expected the Touareg frame to be stronger, but at the same time, it’s still strong enough for almost anything except being stuck to the top of the doors in drying mud 🤣

 

[MidnightTouaregV8]

@SaVAGeSoot - we, the technopeasants, genuflect before you "O might liege" !

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

Stay in your lane son... unless you're part of our Signal chat, you don't qualify to judge the shots we take at each other. Not everyone is a snowflake.

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

That's because you're a techopeasant with the recollection capacity of a Goldfish.

https://www.clubtouareg.com/posts/2044379/

Jesus you're good

I’ve seen this before and considered it when setting up my recovery system. He’s only looking at the strength of the fasteners and tow eye. Surprisingly, the Darkside test shows the frame itself, pulling equally from both sides, is only about as strong as a single factory tow eye, and much weaker than the crossbar/winch plate bolts.

On my vehicle I have dual factory front tow eyes I leave installed at all times, both indexed with shim washers to allow for a bridle pull per his suggestion. I have stronger Eurowise recovery eyes, but don’t leave them installed because they activate the parking sensors, and the factory ones don’t.

Knowing what I know now, I’m not likely to ever try using the bridle and snatch block, as it will generate more than enough force to destroy the vehicle. Better to stay stuck and try something else!

I honestly expected the Touareg frame to be stronger, but at the same time, it’s still strong enough for almost anything except being stuck to the top of the doors in drying mud 🤣

Lets keep in mind it's still a unibody with subframes. For what it is, the Touareg is damn impressive.

 

[casioqv]

Upon further reflection, I realized I was making several errors/wrong assumptions at the same time in my calculations that one shouldn't use a bridle for recovery. 20 tons of force is 40,000lb of force, and you won't actually get close to that with a typical winch and single snatch block in real world use.

With a 12,000lb winch, you really only get about 10,000lb of force when the line is half spooled, which is about typical use. In that case, it would take 3 snatch blocks to actually create the 4:1 advantage required to desroy the frame.

Using a single snatch block and bridle to double the force to ~20,000lb is probably fine, and still gives a 2:1 safety margin, which is generally considered sufficient for non-lifting rigging when you have all of the people away at a safe distance.

Moreover, using the snatch block will cut your winching speed, amperage draw, and thermal load on the winch down drastically, which is less likely to cause a winch overheat or break electrical things on your vehicle due to amperage draw. I did notice during a single line recovery once, the winch drew so many amps it managed to cause the engine to shut off on my TDI, which isn't ideal... and probably preventable with a snatch block.

So I retract my above statements, and think using a block is a good idea after all, if done with a very long bridle connected to two properly shim-indexed eyes.

I still wouldn't recommend using more than one snatch block at the same time for a simple linear pull, but you really wouldn't want to do that on any vehicle. Carrying 3 blocks is still useful to enable a backwards pull with a forward winch.

Specs on pull and current draw for a typical winch (the one I have):

 

[Hughsie]

Darkside did a destructive test of the recovery points on a V10 TDI Touareg, and found that the factory front tow eye failed at the crossbar, with 8 tons of force, and with a bridle pulling on both eyes and an upgraded winch plate, at 20 tons of force. At 20 tons the end of the frame rails ripped off.

One thing annoying is I cannot figure out is which type of ton they're talking about here: short ton, long ton, and metric ton. However, all 3 are similar, and to be conservative I'd assume the smallest (short ton) at 2,000 lbs.

I find this somewhat concering, as I use a 12,000lb winch on my vehicle, which makes 12 tons of force when used with a snatch block. I do have a Eurowise winch plate somewhat similar to the one they used. However, to maintain a margin of safety, based on this video, I think it may be safer to avoid doubling the force with a snatch block when winching a Touareg, and limit forces to ~6 tons to give you a ~3:1 margin of safety.

If you absolutely must use a snatch block, expect a possibility of ripping the front of the frame off, and use a very long bridle (to reduce inward pinching force) to both front eyes for the anchor that returns back to the vehicle.

12,000lb is only 6 short tons, not 12?

 

[casioqv]

12,000lb is only 6 short tons, not 12?

Yes, that was a mistake. I corrected it in the comment before yours, hence rethinking that it is fine to use a block after all.

 

[Lars_NM]

Darkside did a destructive test of the recovery points on a V10 TDI Touareg, and found that the factory front tow eye failed at the crossbar, with 8 tons of force, and with a bridle pulling on both eyes and an upgraded winch plate, at 20 tons of force. At 20 tons the end of the frame rails ripped off.

One thing annoying is I cannot figure out is which type of ton they're talking about here: short ton, long ton, and metric ton. However, all 3 are similar, and to be conservative I'd assume the smallest (short ton) at 2,000 lbs.

I find this somewhat concering, as I use a 12,000lb winch on my vehicle, which makes 12 tons of force when used with a snatch block. I do have a Eurowise winch plate somewhat similar to the one they used. However, to maintain a margin of safety, based on this video, I think it may be safer to avoid doubling the force with a snatch block when winching a Touareg, and limit forces to ~6 tons to give you a ~3:1 margin of safety.

If you absolutely must use a snatch block, expect a possibility of ripping the front of the frame off, and use a very long bridle (to reduce inward pinching force) to both front eyes for the anchor that returns back to the vehicle.

it failed at the weld points. If it really concerns you you could go in there and do a continuous weld between the end plate, and the frame rail.

 

[Black Grouse]

Since Darkside are based in the UK, I don't believe their test will refer to short tons (2,000 lbs) as that's never used here - probably used the international metric tonne (1,000 kg) but might have used the old British imperial ton (2,240 lb = US long ton) - imperial and metric ton/tonne are only 1.6% different - so it's reasonable to assume the test refers to 44,800 lbs or very close to it.