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Considering a 2010 TDI

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11K views 61 replies 7 participants last post by  SwissInTexas  
#1 · (Edited)
I'm going to look at a 2010 TDI this weekend.

The good:
Looks clean
Owner has receipts from a local VW dealer in just the last 2 years.

The bad:
Sitting at 150k miles. I never owned a car past 100k miles but I do know that diesels tend to last 300+k miles (at least with domestic trucks).

I will be bringing my VAGCOM scan tool but is there anything in particular I should be looking for? Weird noises, clunks, leaks in certain spots, etc.? Any tips on reproducing a certain noise?
 
#2 ·
SwissInTexas said:
I'm going to look at a 2010 TDI this weekend.

The good:
Looks clean
Owner has $15k worth of receipts from a local VW dealer in just the last 2 years with repairs ranging from regular maintenance, new rotors/pads, to a full engine out valve cover gasket and rear main seal gasket replacement. I'm sure I'm missing some.

The bad:
Sitting at 150k miles. I never owned a car past 100k miles but I do know that diesels tend to last 300+k miles (at least with domestic trucks).

I will be bringing my VAGCOM scan tool but is there anything in particular I should be looking for? Weird noises, clunks, leaks in certain spots, etc.? Any tips on reproducing a certain noise?
Click to expand...
Check under the front floormats really well for moisture/dampness from the sunroof drains.
 
#3 ·
You can't translate (almost) anything that you think you know from domestic trucks over to the VAG CR motors.
You need to simply learn about them and educate yourself. Lots of info on this forum as well as on the net if you want to.
A 2010 will be a CATA motor, meaning a 1st gen 3L TDI.
At that milage, you need to check DPF condition (especially ash loading). Check for evidence of timely oil changes and fuel filter changes. The 1st gens had 4 timing chains, and if they are noisy at startup, you're looking at a massive repair (read drop engine and transmission, separate, replace, etc)....
Check the hanger bearing on the driveshaft in the middle of the vehicle.
Biggest worry would be HPFP, leaky injector seals, air suspension components if it has AIR.
After that point, get ready to spend some coin on thing that should've probably have been maintained but were not.... driveline fluids, brake system flushing, etc.

Do a full auto scan on it before and after the test drive to ensure that there's no pending issues. Not all DTCs will throw a CEL, so don't wait for one to check things out.
 
#5 ·
SaVAGeSoot said:
You can't translate (almost) anything that you think you know from domestic trucks over to the VAG CR motors.
You need to simply learn about them and educate yourself. Lots of info on this forum as well as on the net if you want to.
A 2010 will be a CATA motor, meaning a 1st gen 3L TDI.
At that milage, you need to check DPF condition (especially ash loading). Check for evidence of timely oil changes and fuel filter changes. The 1st gens had 4 timing chains, and if they are noisy at startup, you're looking at a massive repair (read drop engine and transmission, separate, replace, etc)....
Check the hanger bearing on the driveshaft in the middle of the vehicle.
Biggest worry would be HPFP, leaky injector seals, air suspension components if it has AIR.
After that point, get ready to spend some coin on thing that should've probably have been maintained but were not.... driveline fluids, brake system flushing, etc.

Do a full auto scan on it before and after the test drive to ensure that there's no pending issues. Not all DTCs will throw a CEL, so don't wait for one to check things out.
Click to expand...
Great info and just what I'm looking for.

  • Is the timing chain noise due to bad tensioners (similar to the Audi 4.2 V8s) or is it due to chain stretch?
  • Can the chain stretch be identified via VAGCOM?
  • I assume the chain rattle/clatter at startup would only appear on a cold start-up?
  • How does a TDI novice, but not a car novice, like me go about checking the DPF condition for ash loading?
  • The vehicle is still under the TDI EPA (Dieselgate) recall warranty for 20k miles or through September 2023 which should cover an HPFP failure to my knowledge. That warranty is the only reason I'm even considering this vehicle.
  • Any specific way to check the hanger bearing - visually or listening for a certain sound while driving?
  • No Air suspension on this one which is good.
  • I can do all the basic maintenance myself and will be replacing all the driveline fluid (FCPEuro loves me).
 
#9 ·
Milage is not a concern when things are properly looked after and maintained.
I'd be worried about unknown service history when it comes to major things, so at 150k miles, it should've seen plenty of fuel filter changes and double that of oil filter & fluid changes. Those who neglect these two basic things are the ones who have the most problems when it comes to chains and pumps....

Check what that $15k worth of repairs is all about.... it could be that it's already gotten DPF\DEF\HPFP system components replaced, so you could potentially be good.

If you have to get into EGR\DPF\DEF deletes and tunes, you might end up spending a lot more than you want as they can add up quickly..... but when all things are good, you can get 300k out of these with continued proper care.
 
#10 ·
SaVAGeSoot said:
Milage is not a concern when things are properly looked after and maintained.
I'd be worried about unknown service history when it comes to major things, so at 150k miles, it should've seen plenty of fuel filter changes and double that of oil filter & fluid changes. Those who neglect these two basic things are the ones who have the most problems when it comes to chains and pumps....

Check what that $15k worth of repairs is all about.... it could be that it's already gotten DPF\DEF\HPFP system components replaced, so you could potentially be good.

If you have to get into EGR\DPF\DEF deletes and tunes, you might end up spending a lot more than you want as they can add up quickly..... but when all things are good, you can get 300k out of these with continued proper care.
Click to expand...
Just pulled a Carfax and it looks like it received an Oil and Filter change (at least per Carfax) every 7 to 12 months since late 2010.
 
#16 ·
Listen you window-licker.... quit barking at me! I was calm until you started bashing me!
I was telling the OP what I'm suggesting the maintenance limits (meaning max) would be for me if I was considering purchasing a vehicle.... I don't care, and I'm sure he doesn't either what you prefer to do when maintaining your heaps... you could service your crap daily... it's still not a factor in what WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.... this is why I said, you and I are not talking about the same thing!

Are you trying to suggest that he shouldn't buy the vehicle if the previous owner didn't service it based on YOUR servicing interval?
 
#17 ·
Moving on...
----

OP.

I just bought my 3rd TDI another 2010. 100K miles. Still under the emissions warranties for another year and half.

I knew there were things wrong with it. Since I have had this model previously.

I knew I was looking at:

Complete fluids/filter changes. As suggested I would not take Engine oil over 6-7K miles and Fuel filter around 15K for good measure. Diesel fuel can be hit or miss. So change it often.
Including trans fluid/filter/oring and pan seal.
Oil/Filter
Front Diff, Transfer Case, rear Diff.
Fuel filter
Rear Driveshaft
Shocks/mounts.
Possibly Front Lower control arm bushings. Maybe some suspension bits
DPF
Unless pristine, minor interior parts, cosmetics.
HPFP? Well, if it's at 100K with original pump, it's either going to keep going or close to not. Who knows? Some say replacing is a good idea, some say it's not. Some say once they are at higher mileage to leave it alone. Others want to replace as a maintenance item. Problem is you can have a bad one right out of the box. So who knows?

I personally would like to replace mine. Run Bio-diesel in it to lube and I am sure it will be fine. I have had the infamous HPFP implode on me. So find one still under warranty so it is covered and once warranty is over hopefully we either have a bypass solution or better replacement or just replace with new. Lubrication of the fuel is crucial. So B20 or Lube additive.

Chains. Do not freak out about a little chain noise on start up. This is fairly normal. ALL my TDI's did it and my chained 2.9L Alfa engine also does it. Hydraulic tensioners can get slightly loose on engine shutdown but not enough to throw timing. Replacing might be expensive for sure but I would not worry too much at this point. If it rattles while running, yes run away. My HPFP issue caused the timing to be thrown off. Replaced the head/new chains and entire timing system. All under warranty, bill was $40K.

Should that scare you. No. Get one if in good shape. Have it inspected before buying.

My new to me car was sent to the shop yesterday.

Verdict of my new purchase?

Coolant tank cracked
Driveshaft carrier bearing bad - replacing rear driveshaft
Shocks are weakening
Needs new battery
Adblue tank/heater being replaced under warranty
Charge hose seal

That's basically it so far. Roughly $2,000 in parts some labor and my own labor.
 
#18 ·
OP... do your own research and don't listen to any experts around here, as it will be you who deals with the consequences of the actions you take. Many official documents indicate that bio fuels should not be used in the CRs. Make sure you don't screw yourself out of your AEM warranty as the first part of a HPFP failure diagnostic is to have the fuel sent to a lab for diagnosis in order to qualify for warranty coverage.

Biodiesel can attract water and also deteriorate with age. Small amounts of biodiesel can get into the
engine oil, but unlike petroleum diesel, it does not evaporate over time. This can cause the oil level in
the engine to rise and can affect the quality of the oil.
Click to expand...
 
#19 · (Edited)
Duh. Hence changing oil sooner and always check levels. I change @ 4K, regardless using B20 (and ULSD) which is almost at every pump here, I don't fill up regularly with it but time to time for lubricity. Between 5-20% Bio-mass or Biodiesel. I have 100K++ of using B20+/- even B99. Only use high traffic stations, if not I use Diesel #2 or use my cardlock at commercial stations which typically have 30µ filters on the pumps. I have done all the research and it's been posted here years ago. VW has approved B20 in common rail.

You did cherry pick that info though, you forgot the other information:

Biodiesel blends (up to B20) may be used in your Minnesota-registered TDI® Clean Diesel vehicle; however please be aware that biodiesel has characteristics that are different from other kinds of fuel, especially petroleum-based fuels. How does biodiesel differ from ULSD diesel fuel? Biodiesel can attract water and also deteriorate with age. Small amounts of biodiesel can get into the engine oil, but unlike petroleum diesel, it does not evaporate over time. This can cause the oil level in the engine to rise and can affect the quality of the oil.

Second. I have had the HPFP failure, Fuel is not sent to the lab at all. They just replace the system and move on. I was in contact with my dealer and tech (via text) the entire process and know for a fact they do not test the fuel.

SOURCE:
Don't worry though. Your registration makes no difference. Running B20 is just a little more maintenance and knowledge. Not hard though. If anything, use a lubricant additive to fuel.
 
#23 ·
So he's going to search for a fairly unicorn car and go for the latest as possible build date. Sure. Seems fine and dandy but let's get real, I'd just make sure to pick up a good specimen with records if possible and warranty in place and move forward. We have all talked about making the HPFP a maintenance item over the years here. Somewhere around 100-135K miles is a good time to change it.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Has anyone seem my map? I think I need a new one because mine didn't show Texas being in Minnesota last time I checked it! :unsure:

These cars are different from all the others on the road right? My point is if these cars are allowed to use B5 to B20 in Minn and Illinois, then I'd say it's ok to use in any other state as well. Occasional use is fine and lubricates. I am not advocating using it exclusively. I know new studies show the issues with B20-B70 is not going to end well for the HPFP if used exclusively. STANADYNE Diesel Fuel Additive is recommended for use all the time. Water also plays a big factor so using the water drain plug on top of fuel pump is crucial. Otherwise get a standalone Primary 30µ Filter with water container/drain and sensor.

Sure bud. Here's an example of what VAG doesn't do.... I don't care enough to find the VW equivalent for you as you'll just invalidate it with some personal experience text or something.

Maybe anyone who experiences a HPFP failure can just get the info from you so they can text the same dealer and have it covered based on whatever texting criteria they work on, etc. :rolleyes:

My experience, they did not. I did not state this is the case with every HPFP failure now did I?

Not invalidating anything making a point not everything is black and white as you see it.
 
#26 ·
@alfissimo
As much as I enjoy this useless banter with you on just about anything that I contribute to (are you trolling me or what?), can you at least please learn how to use the quote function properly? Reading your replies is already painful enough without having to sort out what you "think" you're quoting me as saying vs what you're actually responding with.

I'd expect someone with your post count to at least know how to use the forum by now!

k. bye.
 
#27 ·
SaVAGeSoot said:
@alfissimo
As much as I enjoy this useless banter with you on just about anything that I contribute to (are you trolling me or what?), can you at least please learn how to use the quote function properly? Reading your replies is already painful enough without having to sort out what you "think" you're quoting me as saying vs what you're actually responding with.

I'd expect someone with your post count to at least know how to use the forum by now!

k. bye.
Click to expand...
I think your missing the points I am trying to make and that is frustrating to you. That's ok though.

Let me summarize and please no need for response.

B5-B20 can be used. VW states it's OK in Minn. so in REALITY it's ok elsewhere as long as you are using top quality Bio-mass/Bio-diesel. I bet most of the time it's no more than B7 at the pumps with B20. Is it a good idea to use it all the time. NO. If you have to, sure but be careful with it. If you live in a state where it's everywhere/mandated, change oil and fuel filter sooner and most likely you will change HPFP sooner as a maintenance item. Otherwise, I would say use some fuel additive for lubricity. B5 and B20 here and there will not hurt it and give lubricity but yes it's not recommended with the low quality fuel we have here in NA anyway.
Biodiesel will cause damage to the fuel system in these cars if used exclusively. Yes. Wears on parts and gunks up injectors etc...This has be proven in a study from 2019. I do my research. Previous to 2019 there was no research on it (I read it all prior), it was found to be just fine in common rail up to B50+/-.

All that said, my point is you can take what VW says with a grain of salt. Sure they have to state using B20 in Minn is ok because its mandated there. You can also take this several ways, is it really ok? Are they trying to off these cars? If it was bad, why do they want to take on potential warranty issues related to it? I suppose I contemplate things a bit more than some.
On this same note, the mandated B20 used is most likely not the quality of Bio used in the EU but VW has to say sure it works and will most likely give the green light to using it nationwide at some point. Furthermore, VW says it's ok to use B5-B20 on common rail. Sure it has pinpointed 2 states for this. If you believe their Bio is different from any other bio, you're in lala land. Sure there is variations of quality. But that can happen in Minn. to Timbuktu. Using B20 in CA or Minn will be similar. Only real difference is winterized Bio. Anyway... enough of that.

I am not advocating using it but my main point was if it's all you got, you can use it but you must take extra precautions using it as noted.

I use to like to add a little Bio in the past for lubricity but at this point I prefer to add PRI-D and fill up at my local Commercial station with 30µ filters. Clean diesel and high volume so no water, or any other issues from it.

Back to the OP now.

Get the 2010 if it is in good shape, expect some repairs but do not freak on the HPFP. In the grand scheme of it, the HPFP issue is in very very low percentages. Basically it does not happen very much at all. Get the truck and enjoy the hell out of it. They are very stout cars and in my ownership of 3 of them, very little issues. With all the work done recently you should be ok.

Was the driveshaft replaced? If not that will most likely need to be done soon.
Shocks too.
I had to do these like clockwork on 2x 2010 and 2012 at around 100-120K.

Go for it. You can get another 100K++ out of the car. It's a Unique and amazing, capable truck. If it has all you want, go for it.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Bought the Touareg as it was in great shape mechanically and had a stack of dealer invoices that even included a recent replacement of cam cover gaskets, timing cover gaskets, thermostat, all new coolant plumbing, etc. It also had a complete brake job done at the dealer including rotors and pads front and back, new tires, and I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff.

The good:
  • Mentioned most of it above such as mechanically sound with a stack of receipts that well exceeded the purchase price.
  • Passenger seat and rear seats look like nobody ever sat in them.
  • Paint is in excellent shape for being 12 years old, one can tell that the car was cared for.

The bad (I used this to push the price down):
  • No rear headrests. Seller stated he got rid of them not long after buying the Touareg as he didn't like how they interfered with the view out back. Poor guy looked for them for almost an hour but I ended up telling him not to worry.
  • Headliner is sagging (typical VW issues as I had a number of similar vintage GTIs that did the same). Already have an appointment with my upholstery guy to get that taken care of.
  • Parking sensor aren't working. Per VCDS it's error code 01327 (Parking aid control module - No signal/communication). I am a bit stumped with this one but I guess I'll have to look for the control module and play around with it.
  • Rear power liftgate is intermittent. During the times it doesn't work you can hear the motor but it won't lift the liftgate as the latch seems to be stuck. It works if I release the latch manually behind the little cover. I'm going to take the liftgate apart this weekend and will check if I can see something obvious or if I have to replace the latch mechanism.
  • Brakes feel a bit spongey despite having all new pads and rotors. I might have to do a brake flush at some point.
  • Headlights have some fogging from the inside (looks like the result of "off-gassing"). I'm planning on baking and disassembling the lights some times this summer and give them a thorough refresh.
  • New tires. New tires shouldn't be a bad thing but the owner put BFGoodrich KO2's on it which might be great for off-roading but not the best road tire in my opinion. I'll wait for either Sams or Costco to run a special on Michelin's and I'll throw a set on.
  • Not necessarily bad but just shows how far we've come in 12 years. The backup camera is downright comical compared to new cars.

Quirks I noticed:
  • Doesn't have the ashtray in the front of the shifter with the sliding door. Must have been eliminated in 2010.
  • The center armrest doesn't have the two buttons for the 2-stage opening. It just has a handle indent and just opens up, doesn't even seem to latch anywhere. I guess that was another change later into the first gen cars.
 
#29 ·
SwissInTexas said:
Bought the Touareg as it was in great shape mechanically and had a stack of dealer invoices that even included a recent replacement of cam cover gaskets, timing cover gaskets, thermostat, all new coolant plumbing, etc. It also had a complete brake job done at the dealer including rotors and pads front and back, new tires, and I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff.

The good:
  • Mentioned most of it above such as mechanically sound with a stack of receipts that well exceeded the purchase price.
  • Passenger seat and rear seats look like nobody ever sat in them.
  • Paint is in excellent shape for being 12 years old, one can tell that the car was cared for.

The bad (I used this to push the price down):
  • No rear headrests. Seller stated he got rid of them not long after buying the Touareg as he didn't like how they interfered with the view out back. Poor guy looked for them for almost an hour but I ended up telling him not to worry.
  • Headliner is sagging (typical VW issues as I had a number of similar vintage GTIs that did the same). Already have an appointment with my upholstery guy to get that taken care of.
  • Parking sensor aren't working. Per VCDS it's error code 01327 (Parking aid control module - No signal/communication). I am a bit stumped with this one but I guess I'll have to look for the control module and play around with it.
  • Rear power liftgate is intermittent. During the times it doesn't work you can hear the motor but it won't lift the liftgate as the latch seems to be stuck. It works if I release the latch manually behind the little cover. I'm going to take the liftgate apart this weekend and will check if I can see something obvious or if I have to replace the latch mechanism.
  • Brakes feel a bit spongey despite having all new pads and rotors. I might have to do a brake flush at some point.
  • Headlights have some fogging from the inside (looks like the result of "off-gassing"). I'm planning on baking and disassembling the lights some times this summer and give them a thorough refresh.
  • New tires. New tires shouldn't be a bad thing but the owner put BFGoodrich KO2's on it which might be great for off-roading but not the best road tire in my opinion. I'll wait for either Sams or Costco to run a special on Michelin's and I'll throw a set on.
  • Not necessarily bad but just shows how far we've come in 12 years. The backup camera is downright comical compared to my wife's new Q7.

Quirks I noticed:
  • Doesn't have the ashtray in the front of the shifter with the sliding door. Must have been eliminated in 2010.
  • The center armrest doesn't have the two buttons for the 2-stage opening. It just has a handle indent and just opens up, doesn't even seem to latch anywhere. I guess that was another change later into the first gen cars.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Even when I bought my 2010 in 2014 it had issues but was also very good. Rear lift gate was basically broke, they had to reweld the ball for the spring. Broke off.
Not missing much but fast forward to 2022. Buying a 2010, well ours needs a few things.

So far:

Skid/under belly covers/bolts
Rear console storage bin and dummy cover
Pump for spare tire
Trunk shade
New shocks
New shock mounts
New brake rotors (fronts I had from last 2010)
New brake pads (rears I had from last 2010)
Air filter (had on hand)
Coolant tank
Maybe battery
Drive shaft flex disc, Also purchasing new driveshaft support made of poly as original is toast.
Adblue tank/heater under warranty
Replacing all fluids asap. Brake fluid done (ATE GOLD), Trans fluid and filter done (Fuchs 4400 ATF/OEM filter)
Engine Oil/filter
Front Diff/Transfer case/Rear diff.
Charge line seal replaced
Cabin filter
Fuel filter (on hand)
Need wiper arm as it looks like hell or refurb it.
Interior needs a little TLC, some worn spots on plastic and airbag dash issue. I will take care of that.
Probably needs a good paint cut and polish
Some hail dings on roof need to be pulled.
Replacing center console as buttons gone as well.

I have not even lifted it yet or anything, it's still at the dealer waiting for me to pick up. ;)


Don't buy spares from wolfsparts they kind of suck and are expensive.

Find what you can on ebay

Once it's all sorted it will be fine.

I expect to replace front control arms or bushings.
EGR pipe

Dumping the 19" crapterra wheels for 17x7.5 wheels. Powercoating satin black with 2" lift and 265/70/17 tires.

As far as your ashtray, sounds like you have the lux model. Most likely pleather, no buttons on center console and no cover for ashtray. Pleather is perforated unlike leather which is not.

We will see from there but these are awesome vehicles. Fix it and enjoy it. Fantastic ride.
 
#51 ·
Removed the fuse panel and didn't see any loose wires but gave them a good push and noticed that I have power going through the fuse now. The backup sensors still aren't working, there is absolutely nothing happening. Zero lights on the backup displays and zero audible tones.
Accessed the parking module in the rear (what a pain that was), unplugged it and took a volt reading at the plug and it's receiving power. I'm back to thinking it's a bad module.
 
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