[happygolucky]

Definitely! I agree it should not feel sluggish coz the rest of the cars we drove didn't.

It certainly shouldn't feel sluggish by any stretch...so try again without any gizmos on.

 

[Colin G]

If it is a V6 Tdi (180) it shouldnt be sluggish and turning the control to off road may have dulled performance for off road conditions but if i am in the hills on tight twisty roads i find the transmission will hunt through gears and sometimes hold a high gear a fair bit so i normally put the car in sports mode or manual to over come that i would try again with a bit more knowledge and see how you feel i think you will be happy they are a great drivers car
Colin

 

[happygolucky]

Yes it was the V6 TDI 180. Thank you for sharing your experience.

I downloaded some self study documents (Thanks to fellow forumers who made them available).

I screenshot the section for the on road to off road settings. On the off road, aside from activating hill descent and changing stability settings, it also mentions alteration to the shift program (transmission?) with shallow accelerator characteristic. Hmm.. the last point sort of explains what I experienced.

If it is a V6 Tdi (180) it shouldnt be sluggish and turning the control to off road may have dulled performance for off road conditions but if i am in the hills on tight twisty roads i find the transmission will hunt through gears and sometimes hold a high gear a fair bit so i normally put the car in sports mode or manual to over come that i would try again with a bit more knowledge and see how you feel i think you will be happy they are a great drivers car
Colin

 

[B.V.]

If it's a 4motion touareg (not a 4xmotion) then the offroad setting doesn't engage diff's at all because there are no diff's to engage
Offroad setting activates ABS plus, hill descent and a different throttle response!
Thats why it feels so lazy when driving in offroad mode. And ABS is also not working properly on road surface, can be dangerous in critical situations.

Ok, that's what i mean ;-)
I wasn't 100% right about the diff's, there are no mechanical diff's to lock but the Electronic Differential Lock is activated earlier.
The lock button you saw was to lock the air suspension on it's current level. If the speed is to high, you'll get a warning on the dash.

BTW, Happy new year to everyone here \\/

 

[happygolucky]

Happy New Year to you and everyone in the forum too! :drunk:

Ok, that's what i mean ;-)
I wasn't 100% right about the diff's, there are no mechanical diff's to lock but the Electronic Differential Lock is activated earlier.
The lock button you saw was to lock the air suspension on it's current level. If the speed is to high, you'll get a warning on the dash.

BTW, Happy new year to everyone here \\/

 

[Georg]

Happy New Year to you too (and everyone) ... a year later!

Trying to figure out the underlying facts of the 4wd mechanics of the Touareg, I stumbled upon this thread. Having a Cherokee KJ, I am looking into buying a 2013-14 Touareg and trying to decide on 4motion vs. 4XMotion.

Official literature is surprisingly practically non-existent. Info in English and German brochures is ridiculous at best. If I were a different person I would be tempted to think VW is trying to hide something.

The UK brochure (for current model) says in 4motion center diff self locks (the car decides when to lock it). If so, it is not much of a lock...

Several VW reps I have asked swear the driver (or salesman...) locks the center diff with the lock button on the left of the air suspension height knob. I don't know who's right. However, that elusive button cannot be a suspension lock, as has been posted previously, as above "LOCK", it has the drawing of the transmission with the center diff grayed out. It clearly refers to a center diff lock, but I am not certain whether it is a driver operated button or just an information lamp.

 

[roalco]

Georg, the main drivetrain difference between 4Motion, and 4XMotion is that the 4XMotion center differential (Haldex type) is an electrically engaged (stepper motor controlled by the computer, or the manual switch) differential lock, activated through a multi-plate clutch pack (which is continuously slipping except when 100% engaged. The 4Motion center differential is a Torsen differential, a fully mechanical, torque-sensing, locking differential (same as the military HMMV uses). This differential system has no electronics, stepper motor, or wear-prone engagement clutch pack.
The other drive train difference is the 4XMotion uses a six speed gearbox, and a two speed transfer case, While the 4Motion uses an 8 speed transmission and a single speed transfer case.

 

[Georg]

roalco, I would like, if I may, take advantage of your obvious knowledgeableness.

Are you implying that the 4motion transmission is more reliable than the 4xmotion?

Can I manually lock the center diff in the 4motion with the button (if indeed a button) on the left of the air-suspension height knob (drawing of the car with the center diff grayed out and "LOCK" underneath)?

Underlying mechanics differences notwithstanding, are manually selectable options the same until 4xmotion is placed in low gearing? 4xmotion's left knob (off-road switch) goes: on road > off road > lock > ctr diff > rear diff.
Are on road and off road the same for either transmission?
All promotion mentions 5 positions for the off road system in 4xmotion. Does that mean there is a "low" position with open (unlocked) diff (otherwise there are actually only 4 positions/options for the off-road knob.

Both versions are marketed as 8-speed auto. Does this mean that the 4xmotion uses the low gearing transfer to add 2 ratios to its 6-speed?

I'll send you a Tylenol...

 

[Yeti]

Georg, the 4xmotion should actually have a low range transfer case where as 4 motion does not. I can't speak to the specifics of the T3 4Xmotion and it's postions since NA no longer has that option. The Lock button if equipped with air suspension has to be for just that, the suspension. You need the ability to be able to lock it out when jacking the car up so it is not constantly trying to level it's self when doing so. Center diff lock on the previous gen 4Xmotion was a position on the diff select knob. Not a separate button what so ever. I had thought the 4Xmotion was only a 6spd tranny, but that could have changed.

 

[roalco]

roalco, I would like, if I may, take advantage of your obvious knowledgeableness. Are you implying that the 4motion transmission is more reliable than the 4xmotion? -Personally, (my main experience/background is pre-90's Landcruisers, Unimogs, series Land Rovers, and Haflingers) I prefer the Torsen differential, it is extremely robust, extremely simple, has no friction surfaces to wear out and has no requirement for electricity to engage. My biggest wear concern with the Haldex clutch packs is that they are continuously active (ie. slipping) in order to provide AWD in regular (non-fully locked) operation, and, other than a full strip down and inspection, it is virtually impossible to ascertain how effective the clutch pack is at locking the differential, rather like the old limited slip differentials. Can I manually lock the center diff in the 4motion with the button (if indeed a button) on the left of the air-suspension height knob (drawing of the car with the center diff grayed out and "LOCK" underneath)? -No, google and read about Torsen differentials, they are always fully active, transferring power when a difference of torque transmission is sensed, not relative drive shaft motion. Underlying mechanics differences notwithstanding, are manually selectable options the same until 4xmotion is placed in low gearing? 4xmotion's left knob (off-road switch) goes: on road > off road > lock > ctr diff > rear diff. Are on road and off road the same for either transmission? All promotion mentions 5 positions for the off road system in 4xmotion. Does that mean there is a "low" position with open (unlocked) diff (otherwise there are actually only 4 positions/options for the off-road knob. Both versions are marketed as 8-speed auto. Does this mean that the 4xmotion uses the low gearing transfer to add 2 ratios to its 6-speed? I'll send you a Tylenol...

-In NA we are no longer offered the 4XMotion option on the new Touaregs, but basically your control knob translates as; all wheel drive high range, all wheel drive Low range, all wheel drive with fully locked center differential, and finally the addition of a fully locked rear differential, if fitted (a very uncommon, expensive option!) -I assume from your comments, that VW are now using the Aisun 8 speed transmission in both drive trains, (both single speed and two speed transfer case equipped, as mentioned previously). A great idea, and if they just dropped first gear down just a bit you would never the additional weight and complication of a two speed TC.

roalco, I would like, if I may, take advantage of your obvious knowledgeableness. Are you implying that the 4motion transmission is more reliable than the 4xmotion? -Personally, (my experience/background is pre-90's Landcruisers, Unimogs, series Land Rovers, and Haflingers) I prefer the Torsen differential, it is extremely robust, extremely simple, has no friction surfaces to wear out and has no requirement for electricity to engage. My biggest wear concern with the Haldex clutch packs is that they are continuously active (ie. slipping) in order to provide AWD in regular (non-fully locked) operation, and, other than a full strip down and inspection, it is virtually impossible to ascertain how effective the clutch pack is at locking the differential, rather like the old limited slip differentials. Can I manually lock the center diff in the 4motion with the button (if indeed a button) on the left of the air-suspension height knob (drawing of the car with the center diff grayed out and "LOCK" underneath)? -No, google and read about Torsen differentials, they are always fully active, transferring power when a difference of torque transmission is sensed, not relative drive shaft motion. Underlying mechanics differences notwithstanding, are manually selectable options the same until 4xmotion is placed in low gearing? 4xmotion's left knob (off-road switch) goes: on road > off road > lock > ctr diff > rear diff. Are on road and off road the same for either transmission? All promotion mentions 5 positions for the off road system in 4xmotion. Does that mean there is a "low" position with open (unlocked) diff (otherwise there are actually only 4 positions/options for the off-road knob. Both versions are marketed as 8-speed auto. Does this mean that the 4xmotion uses the low gearing transfer to add 2 ratios to its 6-speed? I'll send you a Tylenol...

-In NA we are no longer offered the 4XMotion option on the new Touaregs, but basically your control knob translates as; all wheel drive high range, all wheel drive Low range, all wheel drive with fully locked center differential, and finally the addition of a fully locked rear differential, if fitted (a very uncommon, expensive option!) -I assume from your comments, that VW are now using the Aisun 8 speed transmission in both drive trains. Good idea! -In the end, you have to decide what options you want, are willing to pay for, and maintain. Me, I've found the TDi 7P series Touraeg with 4Motion to be an exceptionally nimble and competent all weather, all condition vehicle, as capable, and far more comfortable than my other vehicles, in 99% of my driving requirements. Never forget, off road capability is mostly driver skill and experience, with suitable tires, a close second, and vehicle accoutrements a distant third. -In the end, you have to decide what options you want, are willing to pay for, and maintain. Me, I've found the TDi 7P series Touraeg with 4Motion to be an exceptionally nimble and competent all weather, all condition vehicle, as capable, and far more comfortable than my other vehicles, in 99% of my driving requirements. Never forget, off road capability is mostly driver skill and experience, with suitable tires, a close second, and vehicle accoutrements a distant third. Sorry, just saw some of my comments are co-mingled with your quotes... I have no idea how that happened, and don't have the the time or patience to rewrite. Hope you can decipher.

 

[noobytoogy]

Do you off road a lot?

If so then buy the Escape.

If not buy a standard 3.0 TDi.

It will be more than adequate even if you do off road from time to time.

Your concern for damaging your car will be reached before the Touareg's limits are found!

 

[Georg]

Posts deciphered, understood and appreciated. In even wonder why I bothered enquiring with the VAG dealers... So my new bottom line is to make up my mind as to the need for low gearing.

Having the experience with the KJ, I am not certain I need it. It would be nice to have, but necessary, I am not certain. I do off-road a fair amount. Nothing extreme, just fun stiff. My daughters love it, my wife hates it. No surprises here, I guess. The KJ has a traditional lever operated TC. I have needed low gearing just a few times. On the other hand, I have locked the center diff quite a lot. From what I understand, a LSDiff as Torsen might be practically close to that, so long as it locks just above reasonable turning differences.

In Europe (at least Germany) All Terrain can always lock both center and rear diff, or, at least, I have not seen one w/o rear diff locking. It is just that there are a lot more non-All Terrain cars available on the market. Decisions...

Irrespective of above, is there a reason to go for 18" wheels rather than 20"? I prefer the 20" gearing. Either way will be using the same AT tires. Only thing I can think of is rock damage to tires.

 

[roalco]

No difference in gearing between 18" and 20" rims, as the outside diameter of the tire doesn't change. With 18" you will have better tire selection, less expensive too, and more tire sidewall (lighter, more passenger comfort, rim protection, and the ability to air down your tires slightly for soft terrain). 20" low profile are better used on road.

 

[Georg]

Unless I am missing something or you get different wheels/tires in NA, there is 18mm diameter difference between 18" (255/55) and 20" (275/45), the latter being larger.

 

[Georg]

I have also read that a Torsen center diff will not lock if both wheels at one end (front or rear) loose traction? Is that true?

 

[noobytoogy]

The standard overall diameter of all the Touareg wheel /tyre packages is 29 inches, give or take a fraction.

As above, 18 inchers will be more practical fitted with AT tyres and /winters if you use them. They are also less prone to SWS which can affect some T3s to the extent their owners have had to go to law to get VW to buy their car back.

 

[Georg]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is SWS?

Any other known issues I should be watching out for?

Some things are subjective. To me 18mm of diameter difference mean slightly higher gearing (about 6cm or 2.5% additional circumference) and, even more important, 1cm of additional ground clearance. The additional ground clearance with the air suspension is part of the reason I have chosen the Touareg over the Pajero. The tires I intend to put on it are the General Grabber AT, that I have used on the KJ and am very happy with and they come in both sizes. However, I hear you about the other benefits of higher profiles.

 

[roalco]

SWS is short for steering wheel shake, which has occurred on a small number of vehicles, at speed. Lots of info and discussion on it on this forum.
The Touareg (and Audi and Porche) Torsen center differentials are biased by their gearing design to normally split the delivered torque to (as I recall) 40% front axle, 60% rear. When required they can transfer approximately 90% torque to either front or rear axle. If you are in a dead stop situation where both wheels on the rear axle have absolutely no traction whatsoever, the car may be momentarily rendered immobile due to the fact that no wheel torque whatsoever is being sensed. This is easily overcome by activating the parking brake for an instant, and creating an uneven front/rear torque load, and thus transferring the engines torque to the front axle. Just tapping on the brakes will often produce the same result.

 

[happygolucky]

Happy New Year to you!

You're right, ridiculously few information on 4xmotion. I tried looking around too. Even if you download the technical docs for training, it doesn't give much further info, at least to me. Youtube videos aren't exactly helpful in answering weather the Touaregs 4motion is a capable offroader coz most drivers used road tyres and the car was penalised for it. But the sales people will always say its more than capable.. Anyway, I went for the 4xmotion option.

I recently tried off-road mode and low range with locks on a steep uphill climb.. Both modes the car made it up the hill.. only difference is that with the low range with locks, the car literally climbed up with no dramas, slow and steady.. with just off-road mode.. sometimes gotta give it a bit more juice to get the car to recognize that some wheels does not have traction and needs to divert power to wheels with traction (little wheel slippage). But mind you, its just a simple offroad slope at abt 35deg ++ maybe..

I opted not to stay on 20" coz I wanted more variety and less cost. Plus I was advised by two prominent tyre dealers that they dun stock a lot of 20" of any particular brand in 275/45/20. So its a problem if I need a replacement when I travel inter-state.

Sorry can't answer your question on the torsen locking but can confirm that both 4motion and 4xmotion have 8 speed transmission.

Happy New Year to you too (and everyone) ... a year later!

Trying to figure out the underlying facts of the 4wd mechanics of the Touareg, I stumbled upon this thread. Having a Cherokee KJ, I am looking into buying a 2013-14 Touareg and trying to decide on 4motion vs. 4XMotion.

Official literature is surprisingly practically non-existent. Info in English and German brochures is ridiculous at best. If I were a different person I would be tempted to think VW is trying to hide something.

 

[noobytoogy]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is SWS?

Any other known issues I should be watching out for?

Some things are subjective. To me 18mm of diameter difference mean slightly higher gearing (about 6cm or 2.5% additional circumference) and, even more important, 1cm of additional ground clearance. The additional ground clearance with the air suspension is part of the reason I have chosen the Touareg over the Pajero. The tires I intend to put on it are the General Grabber AT, that I have used on the KJ and am very happy with and they come in both sizes. However, I hear you about the other benefits of higher profiles.

The General Grabber AT is an old design now. Mine got noisy at 50% wear which is when I change them anyway.

I am extremely pleased with their replacement which I consider to be a far better tyre - better grip in all conditions [and unlike 99.9% of Touareg owners, I am off-road every day!], better braking, quieter, comfortable, and longer lasting too - look at the Michelin Latitude Cross.