I have heard engine can be lifted and sub frame can help support drivetrain.
This is what my mechanic said.
I am getting my chain done this week.
Cheers
Ben
V6 3.2.

 

I have heard engine can be lifted and sub frame can help support drivetrain.
This is what my mechanic said.
I am getting my chain done this week.
Cheers
Ben
V6 3.2.

VW has a rig that pretty much pulls off the whole front end ( body too) without the tranny or that is how they explained their $5,800 project to fix my chains. Still driving uncorrected and dealing with the rattle (until operating temp) for the last 6 months. How could you get to the lower chain without disconnecting from tranny? Lower chain gear is attached to the crankshaft which has to be connected to the tranny.

After much thought about my "elongated upper chain" am not buying the stretched chain story. Possible, yes, but think it would take a lot more than the mileage the problem occurs to stretch the chain. My bet is the cheap chain guides break leaving a gap and piece of plastic bobbing around or more than likely at bottom of case. The chain rattle occurs at the gap in the chain guide. The track is essentially missing at the gap. Bigger gap worse the rattle? If the chain tensioner has an issue (upper) there would be play in the upper chain and a possibly a rattle. Is the chain stretched in this circumstance? No the chain has to have some flex built in. The tensioner if working properly there is no flex and chain is taught.

 

I just subscribed to this thread. It will be invaluable. Thank you for tackling this and documenting it. So cool! Keep posting photos, etc.

I have the same engine (engine code: BAA, i think). I hope I can help out or contribute in the future. Let me know if you need photos of what it looks like put together later or anything else.

 

"So cool!" ....mate, this isn't cool. It's a nightmare!

 

The Treg I just purchased on EBay ran and drove almost perfect except I noticed unusual noises coming from the back of the engine. I assumed it was the tranny until I found out the chains are in the back of the engine. The rattling noise along with camshaft error codes led me to start tearing it apart. No way will I pay somebody $3,000 or more to fix this. If I can't fix it myself and get it running I will scrap it and sell the parts to hopefully break even. Engine is just about ready to come out. Have to rig up something to lower the engine since I don't have a car hoist. Once I have the chains exposed I will let you know what I found. I am hoping for broken or wore chain guides but I will probably replace everything since I have i will have the engine out. Here is a good how to link I found. KilometerMagazine.com - How can new style timing chain tensioner fit into 92 VR6?

 

Right on Ben, its more of a nightmare than cool and fun. How did you make out with your chains? How much did it cost to have it done?

 

Car is at mechanic. Waiting to hear some news. I suspect they are pulling the engine out today.

I will post details when I find out.

 

Hello
The engine has been lifted out and stripped down.
There is a jack underneath the transmission and subframe for support.
I will put together the details about the timing chain in a seperate report however it is 0.5-1 tooth misaligned from the timing marks.
Thanks
Ben.
2004 3.2 v6 @ 238,000 kms.

 

Great pics Ben. Very interesting the tranny and drive train is still attached. These are the first pics I have seen this way. Also interesting to see your steering mechanisms are on the opposite side of mine here in the USA. I can't tell from your pics, did they remove the front end components radiator etc? Thanks for posting the pics. I now feel better knowing I should be able to pull the engine out without disconnecting all of the other stuff as shown in the manual.

 

Front end, radiator, etc. is still intact.

Cheers.

 

Ben, how did you make out with your chain replacement? I am just about ready to pull the engine on my Treg and I think dropping the engine and transmission together as the manual indicates might have been easier. Everything is so tight between the engine and fire wall its almost impossible to get to some of the bolts. With that being said does anybody know of anything special to keep in mind or needs to be done when separating the engine from the tranny? I don't want to break or bend anything. It appears in your picture everything stayed on the tranny including the tourqe converter.

Jim

 

Hi Jim

I don't know any special tricks but maybe it's worth looking at a generic process for lifting out an engine bolted to an auto tranny.........or is there part of the manual which talks about removing the transmission only????

Another mechanic I spoke to "at work" said he would have lifted the engine out as well.

My attached link for initial feedback of my timing chain replacement.

http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f92/how-to-measure-3-2-v6-timing-chain-stretch-with-vcds-185889-2.html

Cheers

Ben.

 

One thing i forgot is the mechanic replaced the torque converter seal. Said it needs to be done when you remove the transmission.

 

The mechanic knows his stuff.

Any other internal parts refresh on the engine?

 

Engine is out.

Ben, Thanks to your help with your pictures I was able to "pull" the engine out today It came out rather easily and separated from the transmission very smoothly? I doubt if it will go back together quite as easily though. Thanks for the tip on the tranny seal I probably would have left the original one in since it looks OK. Anything that anybody thinks I should look for and replace now that I have the engine out let me know. I am planning to replace the water pump, serpintine belt and crank sensor and maybe have the starter rebuilt since it is almost impossible to get to with the engine in. One thing I have not figured out for sure yet is when I replace the New timing chains does it make a difference which side of the chain is facing in or out? I know it says when re using your existing chains to mark which side is out and the direction of the chains but haven't seen anything about new chains. Also any tips on how to tell if the sprocket teeth are worn enough to be replaced would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Jim

 

New chains = new sprockets in my book.

 

Jim, I will put together some photos in the next day or so. I also had the thermostat housing replaced as it was weeping from the flange.
I would be interested to see your workshop setup, tools used, etc.
Cheers.

 

Ben, Attached are some pics. No special tools were used to remove the engine. I did use lots of oil penetrate on the exhaust bolts. A flexible head socket wrench is a must. A hydraulic bottle jack worked and fit perfectly to support the transmission. One tool I purchased for the project and I'm glad I did was a long extending wand with a magnet/flashlight on the end. Its now one of my favorite tools in my toolbox. I am curious if anybody knows. When I connect the engine back to the tranny, should the torque converter be on the transmission or bolted to the engine. It looks like if it is bolted to the engine it would be hard to slide the shaft back into the tranny without damaging the seal??

 

Great work.
Torque convertor should be mated to the transmission , the bolts to the drive plate are accessible from the starter motor hole.
I.e need to remove the stater motor.

 

Hammer, how difficult would it be if you were to left the front end stuff in place as Ben's mechanic did?

Besides sprockets like Nooby said, maybe the tensioner and the guides too.

Do you mean a flex head socket wrench like this? how about extensions and u-joints?

 

Yes that is the wrench I used (flex head) along with a universal joint attached to a couple of long extensions to reach some bolts. I took the front end off the vehicle since I have some minor front bumper body damage to repair anyways. I think I could remove the engine again with the front intact ONLY because I have now done it once. I really needed the extra room to see and find things for the first time. My guess is Bens mechanic has done this a few times and could probably do it in their sleep.

 

This is what I found.

Finally removed everything and got to see the problem. I found the tensioner's to be working. All upper plastic chain guides had grooves in them showing obvious wear. The lower guides all looked ok and seemed to have more oil on them which might explain why the upper guides wore out faster. The upper chain seems to be stretched as I found lots of slop between the upper cam sprockets. The sloppy chain action can be seen when I turn the engine at the crank and watch to see how the upper sprockets turn. My plan is to replace the intermediate sprockets, both tensioners, both chains and all the guides. The seals all look to be OK, no cracks or leaking. Should they be replaced anyways? Also found it interesting that none of the covers had a gasket rather they were sealed with a bead of silicone gasket material.

Hammer_guy (Carpenter-not a mechanic)

 

Finally removed everything and got to see the problem. I found the tensioner's to be working. All upper plastic chain guides had grooves in them showing obvious wear. The lower guides all looked ok and seemed to have more oil on them which might explain why the upper guides wore out faster. The upper chain seems to be stretched as I found lots of slop between the upper cam sprockets. The sloppy chain action can be seen when I turn the engine at the crank and watch to see how the upper sprockets turn. My plan is to replace the intermediate sprockets, both tensioners, both chains and all the guides. The seals all look to be OK, no cracks or leaking. Should they be replaced anyways? Also found it interesting that none of the covers had a gasket rather they were sealed with a bead of silicone gasket material.

Hammer_guy (Carpenter-not a mechanic)

Hi there
My mechanic used a cable tie to keep tension in the chain whilst he was showing me everything "timed up" to TDC.
See photo below.
It would be interesting to know if you were a tooth out or how far out your timing marks are around the cams.
Anyway, great work.
Cheers
Ben

 

Jim and others

Here's a link to the timing chain thread that I have just added photos to. Well, it's sort of a report (10 pages).

http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f92/how-to-measure-3-2-v6-timing-chain-stretch-with-vcds-185889-4.html

I will post a couple of photos here though showing the components replaced.

Thanks

Ben

 

I just saw this, sorry for a slow response. I replaced my v-6 last winter. It will come out the top, with the transmission left in place. You have to slide the motor forward to disengage the transmission. The transmission needs to come up about an inch or two. I left the radiator in place, and used a quarter inch piece of plywood to protect the radiator from the pulleys. The motor barerly fits, but with pushing on the hoses at the back of the motor, a little tilting and twisting, and the plywood to protect the radiator if you slip, you have about a 1/4 inch, being generous. My issue was an occational check engine light. Dealer said software update to detune was no longer available, but they could install and new computer for a $1,000 plus to fix it.... I was getting a miss fire on #2 and #4, just enough to get the check engine light cat underperforming and random misfire. My logic was.. the computer has worked for a 116,000 so replacing a computer for something that has changed mechanically over time??? All of my vacuum hoses were splitting at the joints and hoses needed replacing, so I started taking things apart. Pulling the valve cover revealed the problem. The cam shaft lobs looked oil starved. I found the roller rockers on intake valves #2 and #4 missing small chunks of metal. (small). Otherwise the motor ran like a top, didn't burn a drop of oil, ran smooth, pulled hard, compression and leak down were good. I first planned to rebuild the head, new cams, roller rockers, etc. Parts would be almost as much as a new head. Found a junk yard motor with 42,000 miles for $2,900. That was 74,000 miles less than my motor and less than the cost to do the head with new cams etc. So I swapped motors, replaced every hose(gas, coolant, vacuum). I started to do a write up, but I could not figure out how to do it other than one photo at a time. Is there a way I can do it in word or PDF and then upload the complete doc? I took photos of everything.

 

For really long posts, do it in Word first, then cut and paste when you are ready as you only get 30 minutes edit time on here.

 

I use PowerPoint to add pictures and text, then the compress pictures option. Then you can save as JPEG and it exports all the slides in numbered sequence.

 

I use word and power point for work every day. I have a crazy work week coming up, but I will start putting together, my engine swap thread.

 

I would have loved to have put a 3.6 instead of the 3.2 but we really don't have any cheap options in Australia. No decent supply of junk yard Touareg Engines!

 

How much does the timing chain itself stretched? Would some of it be the fact the guides or sprockets worn?

I would think Hammer should replace as many seals as he could get to. Reseal the oil pan even?