[benb2376]

Marshall007

17755/P1347/004935 - Ross-Tech Wiki

How many km's on your engine?

What type of diagnostic equipment and software are you using to find those codes?

If you have VCDS you should try measure blocks Group 93 and record the values.

Cheers
Ben

 

[Marshall007]

Hi benb2376, thanks for reply,...

I have arround 240000-280000. But is car from second-hand this is why "arround".
I use VCDS (china cable, but work )
Yes try to measure this blocks in group 93 and I'll get back with measurements.

 

[G6mdxvct]

Hi benb2376, thanks for reply,...

I have arround 240000-280000. But is car from second-hand this is why "arround".
I use VCDS (china cable, but work )
Yes try to measure this blocks in group 93 and I'll get back with measurements.

Generally the codes received are result of an elongated/stretched chain if the camshaft sensors and speed sensor are OK. Measuring group 93 will tell the story. In my case could clear the codes and they would come back pretty much after a few minutes of running. At your mileage would bet it is upper timing chain, but not a certainty.

 

[Marshall007]

I measure 208,209 and 93 I upload image there, but why is this 2 window empty? Is bad sensor? Or is realy problem with timing chain?

Thanks

 

[benb2376]

Try this :
Wait till engine cools off
Ignition ON - do not start yet
Use VCDS to clear codes.
Open up measure blocks 208 / 209 and/or 93.
Start engine
Observe values for 5 minutes

-10 deg is definitely bad.
You just want to see what the other value is.

I was logging values whilst driving and it went from -10 to -13 then went blank so my theory is that it warms up and goes out of the limits.

How does your Touareg drive , accelerate ? Does it idle OK?

I just had the timing chain replaced and it's much better.

 

[Marshall007]

Ok I try it after engine cool down.

I still hope that is just bad sensor, because change timing chain should be expensive thing engine must go out of car right?
What engine oil you use? And how often you change it? I use Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 and how I should change it is over 15k. Should help change fresh oil now?

Hmm drive on Treg is I think normal, I never before ride 3.2 engine in touareg, that I dont know if accelerate is OK, sometimes I have feeling that on gang 5 and 6 is car lazy. When I ride 4.2 Treg that it be really stronger on gang 5, 6. But 4.2 have 60kW more, that I think this should be OK.
And other things the engine sound on N is OK, when rpm is arround 600-700, no shaky. I hear no crashing timing chain.

Thanks

 

[benb2376]

Yes timing chain is engine out.
I use penrite 5w/40 which meets the VW specification and I'm changing every 15000kms.
Cheers.

 

[Marshall007]

I measure on cold engine and first picture is my values, on second picture is values my frend Treg 4.2 (he have more bad values than me? or 4.2 have other group for measure?) I forgotten to write, start (cold or warm) is OK when is timing on engine bad that could be problem sometimes with start engine no? And engine light (error light) is show after 4-5 starts, I think no matter how far I drive.

 

[G6mdxvct]

I got my car back from the mechanic yesterday after getting the timing chain, guides and 2 sprockets replaced.

Result : better idle, smoother power delivery (especially mid-range), no chain rattle, No fault code.

MEASURE BLOCKS GROUP 93 :
Old values : - 5 deg , - 10 deg
New values : -2 deg, - 6 deg
Specification : (+/- 8 deg)

Does anyone else have timing values after the chain has been replaced?
Should it be closer to 0 deg. ?

Thanks, Ben

Did they replace the sprockets on the camshafts or the two at the oil pump? Glad to see you got squared away. I still haven't done mine. Have clear rattle but goes away completely when oil temp gets to about 150F. Winter performance is not great until car warms up, no issue when warm. Will probably get fixed in spring.

 

[benb2376]

Did they replace the sprockets on the camshafts or the two at the oil pump? Glad to see you got squared away. I still haven't done mine. Have clear rattle but goes away completely when oil temp gets to about 150F. Winter performance is not great until car warms up, no issue when warm. Will probably get fixed in spring.

Only the 2 intermediate sprockets as these has "new" metal worn away. I'll invest in a magnetic drain plug now.

Mine had a slight rattle at idle and then a rattle whilst accelerating. Both are gone now.

 

[benb2376]

I measure on cold engine and first picture is my values, on second picture is values my frend Treg 4.2 (he have more bad values than me? or 4.2 have other group for measure?) I forgotten to write, start (cold or warm) is OK when is timing on engine bad that could be problem sometimes with start engine no? And engine light (error light) is show after 4-5 starts, I think no matter how far I drive.

I don't know about the 4.2.

You say that the engine light comes on after 4 or 5 starts........I am sure the fault code would appear straight away after 1st starts.

I think it's not a issue that relates to number of starts but you'll probably find the engine light would have come on anyway after some driving on the 1st start (heat in metal components, oil temp, time, etc)

Your values are definitely worse than mine but your engine has done more kms.

 

[Marshall007]

thanks benb2376 for help.
That is for sure bad timing chain? Or is more measurements what I can try for sure that is not just bad sensor?

 

[benb2376]

Perhaps you need to listen to the back of the motor during idle. Is it noisy?

 

[G6mdxvct]

thanks benb2376 for help.
That is for sure bad timing chain? Or is more measurements what I can try for sure that is not just bad sensor?

Pretty certain you need to replace the upper chain. The camshaft sensors only tell the ECU the position of the camshafts. Can't compare 4.2 values with the 3.2. I believe the v8 uses a belt vs chain for timing. My chain only makes noise ( sounds like marbles rolling around in a can). When car is not at operating temperature at idle and accelerating. On the back of the block there is a centrifuge that turns oil vapor back to oil drops. The camshaft chain is directly below. Take a long screwdriver hold against the centrifuge and put your ear to the handle, or if you have a stethoscope. If you can't hear now or only slightly it will get worse with time.

 

[Marshall007]

I just do not want to believe that it can be really the bad timing chain, because sound of my car is really good, start of engine (cold, warm) is OK, acceleration I hope is OK. When someone have stretched chain than could have problem with start engine and have scratch sound from chain back of engine or?
I try to record sound of my engine: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6r42uhekkdxibe8/MOV_0162.mp4?dl=0
I'll try record better sound from back of engine.

 

[pallen747]

I had (have) similar problem. Much research shows left bank cam tensioner gear was not heat treated to spec on production. Right apparently is OK. Result left gear wears much faster than right, leading to misalignment between cams. Once this reaches beyond the capabilities of the tensioner system then cold operations mean noise and engine DTC. Once warm tensioner system catches up and runs normal. Fix = replace both gears, timing chains and chain riders. Engine out, or at least lifted and work on the top! Not easy. Lots of special tools required. I gave it to VAG garage, cost me 3500 USD. This is a well documented production fault, but you have to dig it up.
Bad news is 12 months later, noise is back! They must have done a dodgy job. I will try a flush and a new hydraulic tensioner. If that fails then I will drive it till it goes bang and tourch it. Watch utube for the video. I have had every major TReg ailment and managed to fix them all myself, but this one is the straw that broke the camels back. My advice if you have a TReg, sell it! They have the worst design and production faults of any car since Moscovitch went bankrupt! German reliability my shiny metal arse! Even the French make better cars than VW pump out these days.
You can't polish a turd, trust me, I have tried!

 

[benb2376]

Hi
I have put together some photos of the timing chain replacement. There's 10 slides.
Thanks
Ben

 

[iSagen]

Great info benb!

 

[G6mdxvct]

Hi
I have put together some photos of the timing chain replacement. There's 10 slides.
Thanks
Ben

Great slides. Since you have the engine out have you considered replacing the camshaft adjusters? It makes sense with the engine out to replace both upper and lower chain, but is it necessary to do both to correct the timing issue? Generally VW will replace everything and hit you up for new adjusters , too, but their TB on the issue indicates replace upper chain vs everything on the tail end.

 

[benb2376]

Adjusters would have cost me a lot more. When you buy a kit it's chains and guides so we were always going to do that. We then replaced the sprockets that showed signs of wear.