[MrClean]

Hello. ( Caution: First Time Poster :wave: )

Soon to be first time Treg owner and first time "tower."

I've got much to learn and from my few days browsing topics on this forum, I believe I've come to the right place.

Situation:

I bought a used trailer and spec race car setup and now I need a tow vehicle (not to mention a daily driver). Anyway, the trailer + car weight is just under 4500 lbs. The tongue weight is about 400 lbs. The trailer is 18' long, double axle, an open type with surge brakes.

The '12 Treg has the towing package from the factory, but not the 7 pin adapter which the dealer says can be installed.

Questions/Concerns:

1. Given I'm buying a Treg that has the optional tow hitch but didn't have the 7 pin accessory from the factory, is the vehicle still pre-wired for towing (and all that I need is the $140 7 pin adapter installed)?

2. Do I need a brake controller? And if so, what should I look for?

3. Is the following all necessary and a good deal?
A local trailer store quoted $679.58 (installed, out the door price) for...
-weight distribution set
-shank
-ball

4. Referencing the "squat" seen in the photo below, will the "weight distribution set" quoted above take care of leveling the Treg with the trailer load attached?

=======

I'm very excited about the new Treg and going racing, but I want to make sure that I'm as safe as I am able to be.

Thanks in advance.

Gary
Powell, Ohio

 

[nickm]

A few comments:

-Do a search on here, the 7 pin adapter is a $10 part that you can buy online. It just snap into the existing harness (which is covered by a plastic cover with 4 screws)
-Surge brakes = no brake controller, the brake actuator is in the tongue of the trailer..when you slow down the trailer tongue moves forward, actuating the brakes.
-I'm not sure that surge brakes will even work with weight distribution..
-WD on the Touareg is a hotly debated topic, you may want to spend some time searching this site and deciding for yourself if its right for you or not.

 

[jonmacs22]

Response #1: research and read the forum, all of your answers are here.

Quick Answers:
1. http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f66/towing-questions-with-new-boat-73001-4.html#post352309

2. I doubt that trailer has surge brakes. I suspect that it does have electric brakes. You need to research what is has and better understand what you are buying. Electric brakes require a brake controller. Read this forum, it is discussed at length on what to buy AND how to install it yourself. It is an easy process.

3. You cannot use a WDH on a 2011+ Touareg, as per the owner's manual. Furthermore, you do not need a WDH for a load that is only 4000lbs.
Research this forum for discussions on shank's. This is also an important topic as the owner's manual is clear in its requirement that the shank be 6" long. These are hard to find, but the easiest way is on ebay under Porsche Cayenne parts searches.

4. The squat you show above is fine. If it concerns you, move the car backwards about 6 inches on the trailer. WHERE YOU NEED TO BE SMART, is on loading up the cargo area and backseat of the touareg with spares, tools, clothing, etc. DO NOT DO THIS as it directly impacts the rear axle rating. Put as much stuff into the race car itself. For instance, put your tool box on the passenger floorboard of the race car. Take two or three race tires OFF of the tirerack and place them in the trunk of the race car. Doing these types of things will place more of the load onto the trailer axles and off of the tongue.

 

[MrClean]

Thanks

I appreciate the responses and input.

I kinda wondered about the surge brake myself when he mentioned the brake controller he installed in the truck. When he mentioned it, I figured it was some redundancy measure. His son told me today that his father (the one selling the car and trailer) has OCD and goes overboard with things.

So, what I'm hearing is I shouldn't have any trouble towing the car and trailer I have coming.

Good input on the shank.

BTW, I did a search and read about 20 threads before posting, but I will check out the other threads out there, mentioned.

Again, I appreciate the help.

 

[pajohn]

MrClean, are you sure that tongue weight is only 400lbs? Judging from that pic and the position of the car on the trailer and seeing how far back on the trailer the axles are, not to mention the tire rack right abbove the tongue, I would guess it would be much more. But i guess it could be camera angle.
Try repositioning things as Jonmacs suggests. Also, use of a WDH is deabtable. Read the forum on that topic.

 

[nickm]

Might be worthwhile to read up on trailer braking since there are some misconceptions in your post...a brief summary:

1) Surge brakes are a purely mechanical braking system. There is a reverse switch over-ride that disables the surge brakes when you are in reverse (otherwise the trailer would be locked by the brakes and not move). A brake controller has absolutely no control and does nothing to control or effect surge brakes. A brake controller would have the same effect as an ipod would have to brakes on a trailer equipped with surge brakes (ie: absolutely nothing at all). So the redundancy line is completely illogical...Surge brakes are almost always fount in boat trailers where an electrical system would short out for obvious reasons. Rarely are surge brake found on other trailer types.

2) Electric brakes require a brake controller...electric brakes are applied on the trailer when you hit the brakes in your vehicle, the brake controller modulates the current going to the trailer brakes such that it brakes at the same rate as the tow vehicle. Without a brake controller it is very possible to get too much or too little braking (both very dangerous situations). Most travel and utility trailers have electrically actuated brakes, does not matter if they are disc or drum.

 

[MrClean]

MrClean, are you sure that tongue weight is only 400lbs? Judging from that pic and the position of the car on the trailer and seeing how far back on the trailer the axles are, not to mention the tire rack right abbove the tongue, I would guess it would be much more. But i guess it could be camera angle.
Try repositioning things as Jonmacs suggests. Also, use of a WDH is deabtable. Read the forum on that topic.

Sorry for any confusion. The Treg and trailer (with car) in the photo is not mine.

I found the photo in a review article to demonstrate the squat I am concered with.

Thanks for the response, pajohn.

 

[MrClean]

Might be worthwhile to read up on trailer braking since there are some misconceptions in your post...a brief summary:

1) Surge brakes are a purely mechanical braking system. There is a reverse switch over-ride that disables the surge brakes when you are in reverse (otherwise the trailer would be locked by the brakes and not move). A brake controller has absolutely no control and does nothing to control or effect surge brakes. A brake controller would have the same effect as an ipod would have to brakes on a trailer equipped with surge brakes (ie: absolutely nothing at all). So the redundancy line is completely illogical...Surge brakes are almost always fount in boat trailers where an electrical system would short out for obvious reasons. Rarely are surge brake found on other trailer types.

2) Electric brakes require a brake controller...electric brakes are applied on the trailer when you hit the brakes in your vehicle, the brake controller modulates the current going to the trailer brakes such that it brakes at the same rate as the tow vehicle. Without a brake controller it is very possible to get too much or too little braking (both very dangerous situations). Most travel and utility trailers have electrically actuated brakes, does not matter if they are disc or drum.

Great explaination, Nick.

I do understand what you are saying. That makes sense.

The more I read about the brake controller, the more I see its worth for safety.

This grasshopper will continue his education and read more on this great forum.

 

[jonmacs22]

Brake controller is for safety yes. But that is sort of like saying a seatbelt is for safety. I would argue that a brake controller is 100% required for any trailer about 1000 lbs.

Again, I would recommend you go look at that trailer they are selling. I have never seen an open car trailer with surge brakes, with the exception of a UHaul rental unit. Surge brakes are not the preferred method as they are far less exact than electric brakes.

 

[roalco]

Yes, I too was going to mention that all U-haul trailers are fitted with surge brakes. I have also seen a number of home-built large utility and car trailers fitted with surge systems, so just be aware that they are out there, but may not be the best for your purpose.

 

[roalco]

Meant to say all larger U-haul trailers requiring brakes have surge systems.

 

[nickm]

Meant to say all larger U-haul trailers requiring brakes have surge systems.

Good point...I suspect the reason is that most people renting uhauls wouldn't have a brake controller, so surge brakes make it a bit more universal for usage.

 

[Bloedig]

New here, but not new to towing, as I have a race car myself. One thing that I didn't see mentioned is the use of an anti sway set up. There are different kinds out there, but in short, they generally attach one side to the trailer and one side to the hitch. What it does is keeps the back and forth swaying of the trailer to a minimum. I added one to my set up (car/trailer about same weight as you mentioned) while using my Ford truck to pull and it did wonders for the stability of the set up.

 

[roalco]

As far as I understand, the factory Treg towing controller module is tied in to the cars stability control system. That is, when using an electric braked trailer with a brake controller tied into the stock harness, if the accelerometers pick up trailer sway, it will apply the trailer brakes proportionally to pull the trailer back in line. So possibly we may not need mechanical sway controllers??

 

[jonmacs22]

As far as I understand, the factory Treg towing controller module is tied in to the cars stability control system. That is, when using an electric braked trailer with a brake controller tied into the stock harness, if the accelerometers pick up trailer sway, it will apply the trailer brakes proportionally to pull the trailer back in line. So possibly we may not need mechanical sway controllers??

where have you seen this documented? I know that Ford has such a system on their trucks when they are equipped with the factory trailer brake controller, but I have never heard about such programming within the Touareg.

 

[pajohn]

where have you seen this documented? I know that Ford has such a system on their trucks when they are equipped with the factory trailer brake controller, but I have never heard about such programming within the Touareg.

I also recall reading something along those lines in the manual.

 

[roalco]

Perhaps in the ("Danger!! Warning, Will Robinson!! Danger!!) ;-) owners manual and I think it is covered in the VW "self study" PDFs that are floating around on the web. Have changed computers and lost most of my links.... If I can find it, I'll post it.

 

[roalco]

Quick search of the net shows it discussed on this VW page on ESP,
VW - ESP
seems only enabled on the newer ESP systems and factory towing packages.

 

[MrClean]

Good info.
Thanks!

 

[granracing]

Been lurking around here for a couple of months but since that's my trailer, thought I'd finally post. The Touareg is a bit on the heavy side and as a result, is more stable than many vehicles I've towed with. Tons of torque, extremely comfortable inside, great fuel mileage...makes for a great tow vehicle. I have to say that I absolutely loved my short time with it; enough so that I'm looking into ways to afford one.

My trailer for whatever reason is a bit more sensative to where the vehicle is placed. If I were to have it loaded even three inches back to the rear, it dramatically impacts the tow. I put a mark on my trailer to indicate where the racecar front wheel center should be located (towards the front on the trailer boards). Without the tires loaded, it goes a little bit further up front.

Get a brake controller. It'll help with stopping distance, and in the event you ever need to stop trailer wag when on the highway, you'll be glad you have it.

If you get your car placed in a reasonable location on the trailer, you really don't need anti-sway bars with what you'll be towing and the size trailer you're talking about.

Dave
If curious, the TDI review I wrote can be read here.