2011 Touareg is Here - I Love It!

SamTrooper · Dec 5, 2010

stela said:
: So good, this is what the first Touareg should have been like.

I fully agree, I never could get used to the truck like interior of the t1 or t2, the fuel economy although good wasn't " Vw" like. The new Touareg drives like a Vw, the previous one drove like anything but. Many reviews have said the same thing, this is what the first touareg should have been. Would I like more options? of course. a high performance 2.0 diesel would be nice too with 300 lbs of torque and 215 hp. but we all have to make sacrifices somewhere.

voodoo child · Dec 5, 2010

nickm said:
More powerful??? ummm, I think all the V10 and V8 owners out there disagree with that statement. Besides the 3.6L has been around since the '07 model year and the TDI was available in '09..they are the exact same engines in the '11.

Lighter is good in sports cars, not as desirable in tow vehicles...so if you're using it as a jacked up station wagon then the light weight is great, if you're using it for any type of work the light weight is a step back.

Well, his location says Delhi, maybe they get the V8 TDI? That thing is a monster. But for those of us living in NA, you're right, the engine options for '11 are a little disappointing. The most powerful option is a hybrid, ha.

I disagree with you on the weight issue. Not to dispute that the lighter weight is detrimental to towing, just that the Touareg is not a tow vehicle, and never has been. It's an upscale SUV (or 4x4, in some cases) that happens to have a fairly good towing capacity for a vehicle in that class. Lower weight means it will have better on and off road performance, as well as better fuel economy. To sacrifice all that for better performance in one area that is far from the vehicle's primary purpose is pointless. I don't see how the reduction in weight can be viewed as a negative. Now, if we are talking about a Ram 3500 or your Ford F250, then it's a different story.

volkswagendude · Dec 5, 2010

SamTrooper said:
I fully agree, I never could get used to the truck like interior of the t1 or t2, the fuel economy although good wasn't " Vw" like. The new Touareg drives like a Vw, the previous one drove like anything but. ......

Not sure I understand the "VW like" part? What do you mean the previous version didn't drive like a VW??

As for fuel economy, you obviously have never driven a Passat W8 or any of the Phaeton models. Hell, even the old and venerable gasser 2.0L and 2.5L four bangers used in the Jetta and Golf had no bragging rights whatsoever in that department.

nickm · Dec 5, 2010

volkswagendude said:
Not sure I understand the "VW like" part? What do you mean the previous version didn't drive like a VW??

As for fuel economy, you obviously have never driven a Passat W8 or any of the Phaeton models. Hell, even the old and venerable gasser 2.0L and 2.5L four bangers used in the Jetta and Golf had no bragging rights whatsoever in that department.

x2...I'm not getting it either. The previous gen drove exactly like the Porsche that it is underneath, I don't see where that's bad or undesirable? I certainly didn't want it to drive like my mk2 golf that's for sure.

wensteph · Dec 5, 2010

nickm said:
More powerful??? ummm, I think all the V10 and V8 owners out there disagree with that statement. Besides the 3.6L has been around since the '07 model year and the TDI was available in '09..they are the exact same engines in the '11.

Lighter is good in sports cars, not as desirable in tow vehicles...so if you're using it as a jacked up station wagon then the light weight is great, if you're using it for any type of work the light weight is a step back.

Please. Several hundred pounds of weight on a 5,000 pound vehicle won't make any difference at all in towing. To some degree it will be offset by the advantage of a longer wheelbase. From a practical sense, they will both "tow the same", you won't be able to tell the difference between the T2 and T3. You're reaching to take this shot.

(Disclosure: Yes. I tow. I tow in the 5-6,000 pound range, I tow fast and I tow several thousand miles a year.)

Same motor, but two more transmission speeds allowing the engine to stay at the peak of the torque curve certainly would make it seem more "powerful" than the T2. There is not a shortage of posters here or over on on vortex that have commented on the apparent performance increase. I suspect you know what stela meant.

wensteph · Dec 5, 2010

OILSLURPER said:
I would love to watch a T2 and T3 do a serious off road challenge and see for myself if T3 is really 'watered down', as it appears to be (mechanically speaking).

If it's serious off-roading, even the T3 with 4XMotion and AS (don't forget it exists, it's just not a NA option) wouldn't do as well as a similarly equipped T2. One of you OZ posters pointed out the approach angles are less with the T3. By definition that would give it a disadvantage.

SamTrooper · Dec 5, 2010

nickm said:
x2...I'm not getting it either. The previous gen drove exactly like the Porsche that it is underneath, I don't see where that's bad or undesirable? I certainly didn't want it to drive like my mk2 golf that's for sure.

Don't get me wrong, the T1 t2 didn't handle terribly, but they nowhere handled near what a Vw should handle like. A vw is quick and nimble, the older gen touaregs were fast, but lumbered in turns they would lean and track, they still tracked true, the new one just tracks, there's no comparison. If u watch any reviews of the new 2011 porsche they're all saying the same thing, the handling on the new one is greatly improved much more "porsche like" alot less SUV like, and the same thing could be said for the touareg it now drives much more Porsche like, and less SUV like..

nickm · Dec 5, 2010

SamTrooper said:
Don't get me wrong, the T1 t2 didn't handle terribly, but they nowhere handled near what a Vw should handle like. A vw is quick and nimble, the older gen touaregs were fast, but lumbered in turns they would lean and track, they still tracked true, the new one just tracks, there's no comparison. If u watch any reviews of the new 2011 porsche they're all saying the same thing, the handling on the new one is greatly improved much more "porsche like" alot less SUV like, and the same thing could be said for the touareg it now drives much more Porsche like, and less SUV like..

I guess it depends on which model you drove...my V6 was slow but handled well and didn't have much roll, my V8 came with sport springs, it didn't handle as well but cornered flat, my V10 has air suspension and corners quite well albeit the front end is heavy. None of them are slow in the corners and the V10 is just flat out fast compared to anything out there. I found the V6 TDI the best handling of all the first gen Touaregs..

They all corner like completely different vehicles so I find this generalization a bit of a stretch.

I guess it depends on what you're looking for in an SUV...I haven't had my hands on a '11 for a significant period of time, but I'm looking forward to it. Perhaps I just need to adjust my definition of "SUV"

nickm · Dec 5, 2010

wensteph said:
Please. Several hundred pounds of weight on a 5,000 pound vehicle won't make any difference at all in towing. To some degree it will be offset by the advantage of a longer wheelbase. From a practical sense, they will both "tow the same", you won't be able to tell the difference between the T2 and T3. You're reaching to take this shot.

(Disclosure: Yes. I tow. I tow in the 5-6,000 pound range, I tow fast and I tow several thousand miles a year.)

How do you know you won't be able to tell the difference? have you towed with both? There is certainly a difference in towing feel between my V6 and my V10, they are about 500# different...(and no I'm not talking about the engine).

I don't know either for a fact, but I'm not taking a "shot" at anything...the poster said it should be superior in towing and I agreed the 8 speed is an advantage, the lighter weight is not...there's a reason HD pickups weigh >7500lbs, and no its not because detroit is "stupid".

wensteph · Dec 5, 2010

The poster never mentioned towing, that came up in your reply.

I've certainly never towed with both, but I can't see a 400 lb weight difference really making a difference. That's like saying it would tow better with passengers. Voodoo_child pretty much summed it up, both have a good tow rating while not being true tow vehicles. This is all contextual, no one is lumping Touaregs in with HD pickups and gooseneck hitches.

We know you don't like the T3 (air, 4X, tailgate), yet one more variation of saying that really doesn't contribute much to the conversation.

nickm · Dec 6, 2010

wensteph said:
yet one more variation of saying that really doesn't contribute much to the conversation.

alright I'll avoid adding my opinion in this thread again as clearly you don't like what I have to say...I apologize for having opinions that are not identical to yours.

FWIW I haven't said I dislike the T3 (in fact I am looking at buying one), I just disagree with some of the choices VW made.

nickm · Dec 6, 2010

voodoo child said:
Well, his location says Delhi, maybe they get the V8 TDI? That thing is a monster. But for those of us living in NA, you're right, the engine options for '11 are a little disappointing. The most powerful option is a hybrid, ha.

I disagree with you on the weight issue. Not to dispute that the lighter weight is detrimental to towing, just that the Touareg is not a tow vehicle, and never has been. It's an upscale SUV (or 4x4, in some cases) that happens to have a fairly good towing capacity for a vehicle in that class. Lower weight means it will have better on and off road performance, as well as better fuel economy. To sacrifice all that for better performance in one area that is far from the vehicle's primary purpose is pointless. I don't see how the reduction in weight can be viewed as a negative. Now, if we are talking about a Ram 3500 or your Ford F250, then it's a different story.

Agree on the V8 TDI...mind you all out power output aside I do really like the V6 TDI...even in the first gen Treg I always felt it was the engine that really belonged in it, its a very balanced vehicle with that engine.

I wonder how the weights would compare in the 4X version of the '11? I'm wondering if the bulk of the diet came from dropping the heavy diffs and the low range?...I do also agree that weight loss is better for handling, acceleration and fuel economy -all more important in the grand scheme of things than towing.

Yeti · Dec 6, 2010

nickm said:
Agree on the V8 TDI...mind you all out power output aside I do really like the V6 TDI...even in the first gen Treg I always felt it was the engine that really belonged in it, its a very balanced vehicle with that engine.

I agree with Nick on this statement and I have driven all the iterations of the first gen Treg as well. I think the V6 TDI is a well balanced motor for the Treg too.

OILSLURPER · Dec 6, 2010

nickm said:
and the TDI was available in '09..they are the exact same engines in the '11.

It's weird that the US didn't get the 3.0TDI when we did with the last of the T1 builds in early 2007. I think you'd have warmed to it pretty quickly with more torque than the V8 FSI and way better economy.

By the way ADMIN - there is no provison for 2006 V6 TDI or (07 I think) with User CP info.

OILSLURPER · Dec 6, 2010

nickm said:
Perhaps I just need to adjust my definition of "SUV"

This is the opinion I've gleaned on this forum. 2011 is SUV not 4x4. The suspension is not 4x4 oriented so it should ride smoother. AGAIN - PLEASE....someone get a T3 and do a serious off-road comparison with pics/vid with T2 or T1. I'll bet my 'family jewels' T3 gets cooked. No point of argument intended, but it's what VW have done is to align the T3 as an SUV, so logicically it should handle as an SUV (better than T1 and T2)...so, if an X5 is an SUV, then compare the T3 on the road with the X5. To improve T1 or T2 suspension (steel) it's a matter of upgrading the springs and shocks. I don't mind the ride on mine with 18's and I'd prefer the heavier suspension off-road.

wensteph · Dec 6, 2010

nickm said:
I wonder how the weights would compare in the 4X version of the '11? I'm wondering if the bulk of the diet came from dropping the heavy diffs and the low range?...

Found this service training study program while searching for something else.
http://www.vwwebsource.com/vwtechsource/data_ssp/890103.pdf

This is where the weight reduction came from.

46 pounds on the torsen differential
15 pounds on the exhaust system
46 pounds on the doors
15 pounds on the tailgate
14 pounds on longitudinal members
7 pounds on electronic brake
2.2 pounds on switch from water to air cooled alternators
17 pounds on aluminum radial and swivel bearings
33 pounds using aluminum in rear axle
15 pounds on the driveshaft

ÜBERV10 · Dec 6, 2010

nickm said:
Agree on the V8 TDI...mind you all out power output aside I do really like the V6 TDI...even in the first gen Treg I always felt it was the engine that really belonged in it, its a very balanced vehicle with that engine.

FWIW, I too believe that the V6 TDI is the ideal touareg engine. It delivers nice torque, good efficiency, just really seems likes a solid engine for the touareg on all accounts... For me though I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of that efficiency for the fun of driving the V6 TDI's "bigger brother" lol...

ÜBERV10 · Dec 6, 2010

wensteph said:
46 pounds on the doors

These are the kind of changes that I can understand for maximizing efficiency but at the same time what I love about me T1 is just how much it feels like a TANK. Idk call me old fashioned but I'd also rather keep those 10+ lbs per door in the event someone slams into me...

OILSLURPER · Dec 6, 2010

wensteph said:
This is where the weight reduction came from.

46 pounds on the torsen differential
15 pounds on the exhaust system
46 pounds on the doors
15 pounds on the tailgate
14 pounds on longitudinal members
7 pounds on electronic brake
2.2 pounds on switch from water to air cooled alternators
17 pounds on aluminum radial and swivel bearings
33 pounds using aluminum in rear axle
15 pounds on the driveshaft

From what I read, the 2011 weight reduction is about 460 lbs over the T2. The above tally is about 200lbs, so the rest would have been reduced in the drivetrain. The above reduction of 200lbs is postive for performance and economy and reflects design, materials and manufacturing imrovements. It is now quite obvious in this thread that there are two viewspoints with 2011. 1) Evolution and refinement, versus 2) Loss of '4x4' like off-road capability to perhaps, 'light' off-road capability, more in keeping with SUV AWD, like the X-Trail. 90% of new owners will probably be happy with 1).

volkswagendude · Dec 6, 2010

I reported a few days ago that I had made an appointment to test drive a T3 two days ago on Friday evening, but I finished work late, so I cancelled the appointment

. Until then, other than my continuing dismay at VW that I have vocally expressed, I can't say anything further on the T3 like handling etc. I also imagine that those who claim better handling with the T3, have already driven an air equipped V8(not a V10) on sport mode in all fairness

.

The dude will be back...

2011 Touareg is Here - I Love It!

SamTrooper

voodoo child

volkswagendude

nickm

wensteph

wensteph

SamTrooper

nickm

nickm

wensteph

nickm

nickm

Yeti

OILSLURPER

OILSLURPER

wensteph

ÜBERV10

ÜBERV10

OILSLURPER

volkswagendude

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