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2011 TDI vs 2009 TDI review

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#23 ·
volkswagendude said:
I guess by the looks of things, Land Rover will have a monopoly on this market now? :confused:
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I'll be honest with you. If I was shopping for a another vehicle for mid-aged couple with no kids (that's me and the missus), I'd look at a Land Rover Freelander 2. It's got no competition! Tiguan is no competitor as it's got no off-road ability like the FL2. And, how many Disco owners really use the 4x4 capability anyway? So, I'd go the 2011 Treg if it's an 'around towner' or occasional trail rider, like a forest track. Treg = towing tractor and it's still got that, plus the safety and comfort.
 
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#25 ·
OILSLURPER said:
I'll be honest with you. If I was shopping for a another vehicle for mid-aged couple with no kids (that's me and the missus), I'd look at a Land Rover Freelander 2. It's got no competition!
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My folks have a Nissan X-Trail. One of the very first ones ('03 I think). 2.2 Diesel with about 120k km on the clock. Still one of the best pavement SUV's out there IMO. And interestingly, very good off-road (for a vehicle without low range, of course.) On the beach I almost prefer it to the Treg, just because it's so much lighter.
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
TrexV10 said:
Checked out the 2011. A few issues. No flip open rear window, the rear seats do not fold completely flat, no more air suspension and no longer a true off roader that can leave a Land Rover in the mud. To most people these are not big issues, but I do use the flip up glass often especially when carrying long loads. Likewise when carrying loads I want the load floor to be flat so it is easier to place items inside without damaging the back of the seats. Very few people ever took their vehicle off pavement. I'm one of the few that does on a regular basis, so I would be concerned about being able to go to some of the areas I currently frequent. Just another set of observations.
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I agree with the opening rear window - I really wish the 2011 had that so I can access the back with a bike rack mounted.

I do not miss the air suspension since I never had it - another thing to break?

My back seats fold completely flat, so I am not sure about that one, maybe you did not remove the headrest?

For me off-road is a road right-of-way trail, and the 2011 is fine for that.
 
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#27 ·
No flip up glass??? really?
 
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#32 ·
You know, I'm really starting to so not buy this "well how many people are actually realistically using their 4X4 to go off-roading excuse" to justify the new models target demographic. Maybe I'm off the mark on this one, but to me, it would be like Ferrari watering down their product line, taking away some of the extreme exotic features like their Formula 1 suspension and trick tranny, and saying "hey, lets be realistic, would needs a street version Formula 1 car, when 98% percent of out buyers never see the track anyways?"

Some of us just want the peace of mind, the kicks, the lust, the fun of it, to satisfy whatever inner desire it is(call it whatever you want), to own something nice and unique, even we plan on never using it. I'm one of those people, and looking at that new product line for 2011, I quickly discover that it is not for me. Going to the OP header title, the T1/T2 TDI is. I'm not knocking the 2011. Great reviews, great great great. However I'm not a "mainstream" buyer. Never was, and probably never will be. Curious to see if in the next few years, the product line and particularly the options list, is readjusted for clients like me.



 
#33 ·
You have some good points VW Dude, but I don't see the new Touareg as watered down, in most aspects it seems to improve upon the old model. The things that make it unique and all the cool features are there, with more options than ever. We (North American customers) just can't get them at the moment. However, I feel as the model years progress more options will become available. There's a certain segment of the market (myself included) that will not consider a T3 for purchase until certain requirements are met. I, personally, am not even remotely interested in the T3 until VWoA offers air suspension and terrain tech, at a minimum. A more powerful engine option that is not a hybrid would be nice, as well as some of the newer tech features (area view in particular looks nice).

The only thing I'm worried about is the possibility that VW will only offer the Touareg to NA in its current neutered form. They were already heading in that direction with the later T2 model years by removing air suspension, the V8 and the V10.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is; sure, a 2011 steel spring 8 speed V6 T3 is not very interesting (IMO, of course) and does not do much to differentiate itself from the competition's SUVs. The same could be said of the base steel spring T1/T2 models. But try a T3 that has been properly equipped, and you will probably find it an entirely different vehicle. I only hope those of us living in NA get the opportunity to do so in the next few years.
 
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#34 ·
^^^WEll said. My english is just terrible sometimes :rolleyes:. "Watered down" was not the right wording, and I really had a hard time trying to find something to express my sentiments in the spur of the moment so lets replace those words in my statement with yours. "Neutered" it is. ;)

Dr. Ferdinand Piech is who brought me back to VW from BMW. Chris Bangle chased me away from BMW and Dr.Piech brought me in to VW. Now Bangle has left BMW, but so has Piech from his previous responsibility at VW. I'm a real Touareg/Phaeton, and even B5.5 Passat(still under his umbrella) type of guy. Understated, but certainly not boring. Well, at least mot under the skin anyways.

It's that under the skin part that has me worried on the new products. In all honesty, I still haven't test drove the new T3, but will this Friday, as I have made an appointment to do so. I'll report back then.



 
#35 ·
volkswagendude said:
^^^WEll said. My english is just terrible sometimes :rolleyes:. "Watered down" was not the right wording, and I really had a hard time trying to find something to express my sentiments in the spur of the moment so lets replace it with yours. "Neutered" it is. ;)
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You had me fooled. I've read many of your posts and I thought English was your first language. But regardless of the wording, I think you and I are saying the same thing; VW needs to offer more of their EU options to NA if they want the T3 to appeal to non-mainstream buyers like us.

volkswagendude said:
Dr. Ferdinand Piech is who brought me back to VW from BMW. Chris Bangle chased me away from BMW and Dr.Piech brought me in to VW. Now Bangle has left BMW, but so has Piech from his previous responsibility at VW. I'm a real Touareg/Phaeton, and even B5.5 Passat(still under his umbrella) type of guy. Understated, but certainly not boring. Well, at least mot under the skin anyways.

It's that under the skin part that has me worried on the new products.
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Excellent, excellent point. I also have a lot of respect for Dr. Piech and the things he did with VW. The Phaeton and Touareg are the prime examples of his legacy, and IMO two of the finest examples of automotive engineering. I understand what you mean, the worry that the newer vehicles are not built with the same quality, and that they employ more cost cutting measures. I suppose only time will tell for sure.
 
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#36 ·
volkswagendude said:
Dr. Ferdinand Piech is who brought me back to VW from BMW. Chris Bangle chased me away from BMW and Dr.Piech brought me in to VW. Now Bangle has left BMW, but so has Piech from his previous responsibility at VW. I'm a real Touareg/Phaeton, and even B5.5 Passat(still under his umbrella) type of guy. Understated, but certainly not boring. Well, at least mot under the skin anyways.

It's that under the skin part that has me worried on the new products. In all honesty, I still haven't test drove the new T3, but will this Friday, as I have made an appointment to do so. I'll report back then.
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Excellent, excellent point. I also have a lot of respect for Dr. Piech and the things he did with VW. The Phaeton and Touareg are the prime examples of his legacy, and IMO two of the finest examples of automotive engineering. I understand what you mean, the worry that the newer vehicles are not built with the same quality, and that they employ more cost cutting measures. I suppose only time will tell for sure.

EDIT: Oops, double post. I'm not quite familiar on how to use the "quote" and "edit" options of this forum yet.
 
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#37 ·
I double checked the folding flat of the rear seat. I went to the dealership, checked the manual etc. The dealership and I tried to fold the rear seat back completely down so it was flat. The seat back did lock into place, but it was at a slight angle. If you ever loaded 2X4 you know how convenient it is to have a flat load floor, plus a flip up rear hatch window. For me the new Touareg is dead in the water. There are too many other manufactures with better vehicles to choose from. I never thought I'd be a Lexus owner, but I'd consider the Lexus Hybrid long before I would consider a VW hybrid. We have all experienced VW's spiteful attitude towards its customers. It will be nice to see if Lexus lives up to their reputation of treating customers with appreciation. VW has repeatedly shown that it's customers should be treated as fools.
Does the 2011 have a heated steering wheel option or has this also been costed out? Keep in mind these are the cost cutting we can see. Imagine the cost cutting that took place on the vehicle we can not see, such as the engine, transmission and suspension.
 
#38 ·
I'll be honest with you the lack of a flip up window is a total deal breaker...I can't count the number of times I've used it to toss stuff in the back or to carry something long. I just can't believe how cheap they have gotten with everything.
 
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#39 ·
No 2011 model here till next year. So, we down here in the land of Oz only get to read what others say who have the model in their dealers or now in their garage. I don't think there's any real dissappointment. There was an expectation of an improved T2. But, from what I read, VW seem to have taken the design and marketing approach that T3 is an SUV....it's not a 4x4. That was never it's market IMO, even in 2003. T1 and T2 are 4x4 by technical specs,...but, only if you wanted to use it as one - which, most owners seem not to do, or want to do. It's way too early to speculate on sales success, but I suspect it may sell fairly well. Maybe it will lose out to repeat buying from some T1 and T2 owners as it's no longer 4Xmotion. But I also suspect VW (Wolfsburg) won't lose sleep over that loss. What they do need to do is improve their technical support. It's possible down here we'll see the Amarok sell to the detriment of the T3. Especially if it has better off-road ability. I guess we'll have to watch this space in another 12 months or so.
 
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#40 ·
As others have pointed out, it's unfathomable that the T3 doesn't have the opening glass window... Completely unfathomable.

I sat in a T3 again the other day and while I was really impressed, part of me kept saying "keep the one you've got and just get a four door Golf" the new touareg "feels" neutered. Did the build quality for the interior go up? Certainly. Is the Technology way better? Absolutely. But at the end of the day, and this really harkens back to vwdude's post concerning Ferrari/etc., if I can't get what I want, especially on an expensive car, I'll look elsewhere. The new Touareg not only lacks the options I'm looking for but also the whole "feel," that rugged charm, it's just not there anymore and in my mind it's such a shame.
 
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